Gunther planning to use 3-4 defense in likely passing downs - Page 5

beer bacon · 06-23-2005, 02:06 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...de-scoop_x.htm

Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham is the latest coach planning the 3-4 scheme as a sub package. Cunningham plans to implement the 3-4 in likely passing downs to maximize Kansas City's improved defensive speed.

I like the sound of this. Who do you think would normally be out there on defense in these situations?

**ChiefGator** · 06-23-2005, 10:20 AM

I thought I remembered Gun saying that just after the draft. That we would play SOME downs with 3-4... but not ALL passing downs or anything like that. Just that he had flexibility to do that.

Sorry I'm not going to bother trying to find it, but I really did think this was already known.

HC_Chief · 06-23-2005, 10:22 AM

What, no more "spinner"? C'mon, the 2 down-lineman, everyone else run around like a complete frickin idiot play has been shelved?! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

BigChiefFan · 06-23-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

very well said Roy. Couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, I don't think we have the DL to run a 3-4 defense. Our DE's are not good run stoppers. I'm high on Jared Allen, but, his run defense is pourous, and he is a bit small. Definately, not the DE we want in a 3-4. Eric hicks we all know, and don't care to elaborate on him. Our DT's are simply not big enough, nor strong enough to play in a 3-4. With the exception of Siavii, each and everyone of our DT's are slighy over 300lbs or a little under 300lbs. It is not only the size, but, the fact that most of our DT's are not 2 gap players, and only 1 gap players.
I wish we signed Keith Traylor. A DT like that, is well suited for a 3-4. I think we have the LB's to run a 3-4. Maybe we should try a 4-4?

Hicks is a damn good run stopper and Allen has bulked up and been working on run containment. Our LBers are better than our D-Line and we have two Nose tackles in Savaii and Dalton. We could run the 3-4, Maybe not as effective as the Pats, but our LBing speed could pull it off.

RedThat · 06-23-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Hicks is a damn good run stopper and Allen has bulked up and been working on run containment. Our LBers are better than our D-Line and we have two Nose tackles in Savaii and Dalton. We could run the 3-4, Maybe not as effective as the Pats, but our LBing speed could pull it off.

where did you get this information on Allen? Last pic I saw of him recently looks like he hasn't been hitting the gym/working out. Looks like he's been partying and drinking beer. Dude looks like he's developing a beer gut.

BigChiefFan · 06-23-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

where did you get this information on Allen? Last pic I saw of him recently looks like he hasn't been hitting the gym/working out. Looks like he's been partying and drinking beer. Dude looks like he's developing a beer gut.

I saw him in person at the practice, plus it was reported that he had bulked up to 280 lbs on the radio.

keg in kc · 06-23-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Hicks is a damn good run stopper and Allen has bulked up and been working on run containment. Our LBers are better than our D-Line and we have two Nose tackles in Savaii and Dalton. We could run the 3-4, Maybe not as effective as the Pats, but our LBing speed could pull it off.

I'm with you 100%. Except for that part about Hicks being a damn good run stopper. And Allen being someone you'd want as a 3-4 DE. And Siavii being a 3-4 NT. And Sims being a 3-4 NT. But other than that, absolutely right on.

BigChiefFan · 06-23-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I'm with you 100%. Except for that part about Hicks being a damn good run stopper. And Allen being someone you'd want as a 3-4 DE. And Siavii being a 3-4 NT. And Sims being a 3-4 NT. But other than that, absolutely right on.

Hater.

That was good stuff.

Just call me crazy next time.

CoMoChief · 06-23-2005, 10:53 AM

I love this move. Bell would move back to his LILB spot and Kawika could play RILB. Then we could have DJ play ROLB and Fox at LOLB

keg in kc · 06-23-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Hater.

That was good stuff.

Just call me crazy next time.

Why, I couldn't do that. That would be mean.

whoman69 · 06-23-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Considering that pretty much describes the Nickel, you’d be 'bout
right.

Most nickle packages are a 3-3-5 while a dime is a 3-2-6. While blitz packages can be created from these combinations, I think a stronger rush would come from 4 downlineman and leave less gaps in coverage from a hole created by a blitz.

BigChiefFan · 06-23-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Why, I couldn't do that. That would be mean.

All kidding aside, we don't have the optimum horses up front on the D-line, but we actually have a very speedy set of LBers now. On passing downs, I believe we would be wise to utilize our speed and have 4 LBers on the field rather than our weakness of 4 D-lineman.

After thinking of your previous post, I tend to agree Hicks is NOT great run-stopper ( I exaggerate from time to time

), but he really does a pretty good job of containing the run, IMO. He also is good at putting pressure on the QB, he just rarely FINISHES the play with a sack.

Savaii has the size and strength to man the NT positiion, but is not the idle candidate, unless he really turns it up a few notches.

Sims is a possibility, but I prefer him as the undertackle.

Hall looks pretty good and Allen will improve from last year, IMO.

Our D-line could be a weakness, but it's worth installing some plays on obvious passing downs to utilize our LBers. Just my take.

TRing · 06-23-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

Most nickle packages are a 3-3-5 while a dime is a 3-2-6. While blitz packages can be created from these combinations, I think a stronger rush would come from 4 downlineman and leave less gaps in coverage from a hole created by a blitz.

I was led to believe that the dime is a 4-1-6 then a quarter would be a 3-1-7 but if you have a 3-2-6 that would almost be like a 3-4 with dbacks playing the outsidebackers pos. and i think the 4-2-5 is used more for the nickel but the 3-3-5 is another variation.I could be way off base so tell me if i am.

keg in kc · 06-23-2005, 11:15 AM

I don't think we have anything approaching a traditional 3-4 NT on the roster. And if we did (and we don't), I don't think Allen, Hall or Hicks would be the ends, they don't have the bulk; we'd need bigger 2-gap ends, probably more along the lines of Browning and Wilkerson. Either way, while we may have the personnel at LB, I don't see it on the line. Not for a base 3-4. But that's not really what we're talking about here, so my guess is if that if we're going 3-4 for nickel/long yardage (and I'm not convinced yet that we are, but for the sake of argument), it's probably not going to be a traditional 3-4 look, I'd imagine more of a pure pass rush package, with Browning on the nose, Allen and Hall on the ends, LBs set up for pressure. That's more feasible now than in the past because the speed at LB should make us less susceptible to draws and misdirection for long yardage.

RedThat · 06-23-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

All kidding aside, we don't have the optimum horses up front on the D-line, but we actually have a very speedy set of LBers now. On passing downs, I believe we would be wise to utilize our speed and have 4 LBers on the field rather than our weakness of 4 D-lineman.

After thinking of your previous post, I tend to agree Hicks is NOT great run-stopper ( I exaggerate from time to time

), but he really does a pretty good job of containing the run, IMO. He also is good at putting pressure on the QB, he just rarely FINISHES the play with a sack.

Savaii has the size and strength to man the NT positiion, but is not the idle candidate, unless he really turns it up a few notches.

Sims is a possibility, but I prefer him as the undertackle.

Hall looks pretty good and Allen will improve from last year, IMO.

Our D-line could be a weakness, but it's worth installing some plays on obvious passing downs to utilize our LBers. Just my take.

I have more faith in our LBers rushing the passer than our front 4. I hope Gun finds a way to them involved rushing the passer on 3rd downs.

HC_Chief · 06-23-2005, 11:16 AM

Sims, Siavii, Dalton would be my front-three in a 3-4 scheme. They need only hold the point of attack... those three have girth. If they get their shoulders low, they can definitely hold the line.

06-23-2005, 02:06 AM
beer bacon WHAT Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $10019545	Gunther planning to use 3-4 defense in likely passing downs http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...de-scoop_x.htm Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham is the latest coach planning the 3-4 scheme as a sub package. Cunningham plans to implement the 3-4 in likely passing downs to maximize Kansas City's improved defensive speed. I like the sound of this. Who do you think would normally be out there on defense in these situations?
Posts: 9,301

06-23-2005, 10:20 AM	#61
ChiefGator Can these boys not play? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Northcentral Florida Casino cash: $6512956	I thought I remembered Gun saying that just after the draft. That we would play SOME downs with 3-4... but not ALL passing downs or anything like that. Just that he had flexibility to do that. Sorry I'm not going to bother trying to find it, but I really did think this was already known. __________________ - Mark
Posts: 4,700

06-23-2005, 10:22 AM	#62
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	What, no more "spinner"? C'mon, the 2 down-lineman, everyone else run around like a complete frickin idiot play has been shelved?! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo __________________ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Posts: 12,355

06-23-2005, 10:53 AM	#68
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7712254	I love this move. Bell would move back to his LILB spot and Kawika could play RILB. Then we could have DJ play ROLB and Fox at LOLB __________________
Posts: 39,236

06-23-2005, 11:15 AM	#73
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I don't think we have anything approaching a traditional 3-4 NT on the roster. And if we did (and we don't), I don't think Allen, Hall or Hicks would be the ends, they don't have the bulk; we'd need bigger 2-gap ends, probably more along the lines of Browning and Wilkerson. Either way, while we may have the personnel at LB, I don't see it on the line. Not for a base 3-4. But that's not really what we're talking about here, so my guess is if that if we're going 3-4 for nickel/long yardage (and I'm not convinced yet that we are, but for the sake of argument), it's probably not going to be a traditional 3-4 look, I'd imagine more of a pure pass rush package, with Browning on the nose, Allen and Hall on the ends, LBs set up for pressure. That's more feasible now than in the past because the speed at LB should make us less susceptible to draws and misdirection for long yardage.
Posts: 58,682

06-23-2005, 11:16 AM	#75
HC_Chief That's just f***in' stupid Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: suburbia Casino cash: $3687107	Sims, Siavii, Dalton would be my front-three in a 3-4 scheme. They need only hold the point of attack... those three have girth. If they get their shoulders low, they can definitely hold the line. __________________ "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Posts: 12,355