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Old 04-28-2023, 06:41 PM  
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Last edited by Dante84; 05-01-2023 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:17 AM   #721
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Other than to Tyreek Hill, Mahomes/Reid don't like to throw jump balls. Blake Bell is 6'6" and how many times can you think of Mahomes throwing a jump ball to him in the endzone? Reid can scheme up pretty much anything, yet he can't find a way to have Bell go against a 6' safety or LB?
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:18 AM   #722
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What true number 1, or hell true number 2 WR have they drafted? Many teams are bad at drafting certain positions. I'm just going on history and watching Mahomes scramble to get someone open instead of trying to force it as often as possible. I'm hoping Rice is awesome, and I'm even willing to give him time to do it, but I'm not crazy enough to ignore 6 years of drafting meh and run out and buy this guys Jersey either. I'm assuming you already ordered yours?
This is where I am as well.
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:27 AM   #723
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It’s not just about being big to win jump balls. It’s body control and coordination and tracking the ball and leaping ability, too.

I don’t think Bell has anything other than the size.
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Old 05-03-2023, 07:48 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
It’s not just about being big to win jump balls. It’s body control and coordination and tracking the ball and leaping ability, too.

I don’t think Bell has anything other than the size.
Travis Kelce has that, no?

And I can kinda count on 2 hands the balls like that he's gotten.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:26 AM   #725
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Travis Kelce has that, no?

And I can kinda count on 2 hands the balls like that he's gotten.
No, he doesn't.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:33 AM   #726
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No, he doesn't.
Kelce doesn't have body control and coordination and leaping ability? Tracking the football?
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:35 AM   #727
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Kelce doesn't have body control and coordination and leaping ability? Tracking the football?
Not anything close to Rice in that department.

It's like taking a guy that is fast for TE and saying he has DJax and Tyreek speed. Sure, compared to other TEs, I guess you can say he "has that", but no he actually doesn't have what Rice has.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:35 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 View Post
Other than to Tyreek Hill, Mahomes/Reid don't like to throw jump balls. Blake Bell is 6'6" and how many times can you think of Mahomes throwing a jump ball to him in the endzone? Reid can scheme up pretty much anything, yet he can't find a way to have Bell go against a 6' safety or LB?
He actually threw a few to Gray, of all people, last season. And he absolutely attempted a couple to MVS, but (as I said at the time) the guy just doesn't have the body control to bring those in. Never has and it was silly for people to slam him for not being able to do so. It's just not a club in his bag.

Rice can. Because body control, like speed, is innate. Either you have it or you don't. Rice has it in spades.

I think the Chiefs would like to have that ability in their arsenal. As you noted, Mahomes DID throw them to Hill and frankly Hill is the only guy we've had since maybe Bowe with that kind of body control. Even Maclin didn't have it; it was essentially a better version of MVS - very graceful and fluid in his cuts and in creating separation, but not a guy who was going to turn, leap, locate and rotate to a ball in one motion.

Even Bowe's body control wasn't that type - it was more physical in nature.

But Rice brings something we haven't had since Hill and when we had it, we put it to use.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:38 AM   #729
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Kelce doesn't have body control and coordination and leaping ability? Tracking the football?
Not at a WR level, no.

He has spectacular body control for a TE, but he's an example similar to what I just mentioned - more like Bowe. He has great size/strength and could use that very well. But he's not a leaper.

And frankly, I feel like you're underselling the number of times he HAS gone up for a ball.

But ultimately he just works in different areas of the field. He works the seams and zones over the middle. He's just not someone who needs to get those kind of balls that often.

But ultimately no - Kelce's remarkable because of his fluidity as a TE and how much agility he has at a size that makes it damn near impossible to cover him with a CB. But if you put him in a tier with WRs and grade his raw athleticism, we're talking B-/C+ at best.

Kelce wins by being big, durable, tough and DAMN smart.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:49 AM   #730
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Not anything close to Rice in that department.

It's like taking a guy that is fast for TE and saying he has DJax and Tyreek speed. Sure, compared to other TEs, I guess you can say he "has that", but no he actually doesn't have what Rice has.
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Not at a WR level, no.

He has spectacular body control for a TE, but he's an example similar to what I just mentioned - more like Bowe. He has great size/strength and could use that very well. But he's not a leaper.

And frankly, I feel like you're underselling the number of times he HAS gone up for a ball.

But ultimately he just works in different areas of the field. He works the seams and zones over the middle. He's just not someone who needs to get those kind of balls that often.

But ultimately no - Kelce's remarkable because of his fluidity as a TE and how much agility he has at a size that makes it damn near impossible to cover him with a CB. But if you put him in a tier with WRs and grade his raw athleticism, we're talking B-/C+ at best.

Kelce wins by being big, durable, tough and DAMN smart.
Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you guys on this. We've seen him line up outside and do it. It's just not something they ask him to do, nor have they really ever asked guys to do it here. With Kelce's size, paired with what he possesses athletically, it would make sense to do it with him alot more if it were something they valued.

Maybe it's because they haven't had anyone who could, but they also haven't gone out of their way to get someone that does it.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:51 AM   #731
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Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you guys on this. We've seen him line up outside and do it. It's just not something they ask him to do, nor have they really ever asked guys to do it here. With Kelce's size, paired with what he possesses athletically, it would make sense to do it with him alot more if it were something they valued.

Maybe it's because they haven't had anyone who could, but they also haven't gone out of their way to get someone that does it.
You're free to be reeruned...
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:53 AM   #732
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Yeah, I'm gonna disagree with you guys on this. We've seen him line up outside and do it. It's just not something they ask him to do, nor have they really ever asked guys to do it here. With Kelce's size, paired with what he possesses athletically, it would make sense to do it with him alot more if it were something they valued.

Maybe it's because they haven't had anyone who could, but they also haven't gone out of their way to get someone that does it.
He lines up outside and does it against safeties.

Remember, the DC doesn't know where he's going to line up when he puts his sub package out there. He's not sending NCBs out there to man up on Kelce every time just in case he splits out wide.

I mean just look at the traits. He's probably not even a 4.8 guy anymore. The leaping ability is...nominal at best.

Just watch the guy and tell me he's winning through innate athleticism. He just isn't. I've mentioned this before but the times he's left guys grasping at air are because he's using his feet/hips to make his next move before he's even caught the ball. It's really amazing shit.
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Old 05-03-2023, 08:56 AM   #733
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A great possession WR in the NFL doesn't live on jump balls and fades.

Look at Michael Thomas before he got injured. They don't run away from the DB but use their body to box out and then the QB places the ball there with good ball placement (Brees).

Mahomes could do that with a Dhop or last year's draft Drake London.
Rice has plus size, is very physical and has elite 10 and 20 yard splits.

He gets to 4th gear quickly and then just doesn't have a 5th gear. That's pretty much EXACTLY how Michael Thomas succeeded.
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Old 05-03-2023, 09:02 AM   #734
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A great possession WR in the NFL doesn't live on jump balls and fades.

Look at Michael Thomas before he got injured. They don't run away from the DB but use their body to box out and then the QB places the ball there with good ball placement (Brees).

Mahomes could do that with a Dhop or last year's draft Drake London.
That's exactly the role JJSS played last year.
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Old 05-03-2023, 09:02 AM   #735
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He lines up outside and does it against safeties.

Remember, the DC doesn't know where he's going to line up when he puts his sub package out there. He's not sending NCBs out there to man up on Kelce every time just in case he splits out wide.

I mean just look at the traits. He's probably not even a 4.8 guy anymore. The leaping ability is...nominal at best.

Just watch the guy and tell me he's winning through innate athleticism. He just isn't. I've mentioned this before but the times he's left guys grasping at air are because he's using his feet/hips to make his next move before he's even caught the ball. It's really amazing shit.
It is also why he has the best dance moves. He uses those skills similarly on the field to get wide open when it seems like it is busted coverage.
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