2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[duncan_idaho]

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Hamas is the same idiot who tried to tell me STL isn't a better baseball market than KC. Seriously - he said that.



As people already pointed out in this thread, Gordon Hos Moose etc were monsters in the minors and in the case of Gordon (and Myers too), BB AMerica's top prospect. STL would trade Tavares for Gordon straight up this second and wouldn't bat an eye.


Gordon is going to have about 17 WAR in a three year stretch. Equal to Wainright & Molina.....More than Matt Holliday (13) or Beltran (11 WAR).

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the concepts of cost control and age, don't you?

And, not surprising given the ass kicking you took in that thread, you completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I was saying about KC vs. St. Louis. You think that St. Louis has some kind of intrinsic market advantage, and that's just bullshit.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the concepts of cost control and age, don't you?

And, not surprising given the ass kicking you took in that thread, you completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I was saying about KC vs. St. Louis. You think that St. Louis has some kind of intrinsic market advantage, and that's just bullshit.

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the value of prospects. Until they get to the majors and prove something, their value is very low, because the bust rate of all prospects is so high. Regardless of their status as a prospect. Tavares hasn't had to make an adjustment to his swing thusfar in his career. You simply don't know how well he will hit at the next level where he will have to make adjustments. There is a gulf of difference between AAA and the Majors. Further, you are acting like he's the next surefire Trout or Harper. But he's not. Basically, you should probably stop casting stones about who knows or doesn't know baseball, because from where I am sitting, you don't know your ass from your elbow.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the value of prospects. Until they get to the majors and prove something, their value is very low, because the bust rate of all prospects is so high. Regardless of their status as a prospect. Tavares hasn't had to make an adjustment to his swing thusfar in his career. You simply don't know how well he will hit at the next level where he will have to make adjustments. There is a gulf of difference between AAA and the Majors. Further, you are acting like he's the next surefire Trout or Harper. But he's not. Basically, you should probably stop casting stones about who knows or doesn't know baseball, because from where I am sitting, you don't know your ass from your elbow.

That is just patently false. Jurickson Profar and Mike Olt were floated as an idea for Giancarlo Stanton and Ricky Nolasco and the Rangers didn't want to make that move.

It's not the same as it was three years ago when you can trade for a player and recoup a first and a sandwich pick if he signs elsewhere. Prospects are worth more now than they have ever been.

I'll tell you this about Taveras: he's going to be a consistent .280-.310 hitter with 25+ HR power and six years of cost control. That's millions of dollars in surplus value that can be used to improve other areas of the team.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the concepts of cost control and age, don't you?

And, not surprising given the ass kicking you took in that thread, you completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I was saying about KC vs. St. Louis. You think that St. Louis has some kind of intrinsic market advantage, and that's just bullshit.

It's about surplus value, and paying Gordon 8M to produce 25m in value leads to something called a "surplus". But I realize you don't know this concept. A good prospect hasn't produced anything of value let alone any surplus (as others already pointed out with Hos et al).


You're just a dork who overestimates his own players. Most fans are like you.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

It's about surplus value, and paying Gordon 8M to produce 25m in value leads to something called a "surplus". But I realize you don't know this concept. A good prospect hasn't produced anything of value let alone any surplus (as others already pointed out with Hos et al).


You're just a dork who overestimates his own players. Most fans are like you.

And here's the bet:

Does Gordon produce more surplus value when getting compensated 9+MM per year for three years than Taveras does getting 400K for six.

Math is your friend, mmkay?

(BTW, Gordon's numbers are declining for the second straight season)

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

You seem to have a really hard time understanding the value of prospects. Until they get to the majors and prove something, their value is very low, because the bust rate of all prospects is so high. Regardless of their status as a prospect. Tavares hasn't had to make an adjustment to his swing thusfar in his career. You simply don't know how well he will hit at the next level where he will have to make adjustments. There is a gulf of difference between AAA and the Majors. Further, you are acting like he's the next surefire Trout or Harper. But he's not. Basically, you should probably stop casting stones about who knows or doesn't know baseball, because from where I am sitting, you don't know your ass from your elbow.

Alex was te college POY, #2 draft pick, and won BB Americas POY his only season where he hit 29 home runs. It's taken several years to get to finally be an All Star.


But according to this idiot, the Cards prospect is going to walk into MLB and go 300-25 every year. Something Alex has never once done. Someone needs to give Hamas an elbow to the face

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Alex was te college POY, #2 draft pick, and won BB Americas POY his only season where he hit 29 home runs. It's taken several years to get to finally be an All Star.


But according to this idiot, the Cards prospect is going to walk into MLB and go 300-25 every year. Something Alex has never once done. Someone needs to give Hamas an elbow to the face

It's not unheard of; it's just unheard of for your players. That's not my fault; it's the fault of your scouting and player development.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

YES, and then the Royals and Chiefs could be joined in eternal mediocrity.

Well said!

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's not unheard of; it's just unheard of for your players. That's not my fault; it's the fault of your scouting and player development.

Gordon and Hosmer were properly scouted, and I don't think, developmentally, the organization did anything wrong with these two.

Prospects simply don't always pan out as expected, even elite-level position players.

And the Rangers are ****ing idiots not to ship prospects to acquire Stanton.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

It's not unheard of; it's just unheard of for your players. That's not my fault; it's the fault of your scouting and player development.

It's unheard of across baseball, save for Trout and Miguel Cabrera.

Carlos Beltran has 1 season of .300 & 25. But this clown will do it annually. You're not just a fool, you're a really bad homer.

[Ceej]

As Royals fans you'd think other fans would listen to us about highly touted prospects not working out as expected.

[Deberg_1990]

Rick Ankiel will win 20+games annually!

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by CJizzles

As Royals fans you'd think other fans would listen to us about highly touted prospects not working out as expected.

Other teams do it right; the Royals are flawed.

Making this argument about "pitching prospects"? OK. The team clearly cannot develop a pitcher. But position players are little more difficult to **** up. This is more about scouting, in my view.

Basically, Hamas's expectations for Taveras are exactly what Royals fans expect Myers to be, and this is precisely why I flipped my shit when the trade was made.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

It's unheard of across baseball, save for Trout and Miguel Cabrera.

Carlos Beltran has 1 season of .300 & 25. But this clown will do it annually. You're not just a fool, you're a really bad homer.

Now is the point where I inject some nuance, so prepare for your pea brain to explode.

Carlos Beltran hit .275 in 2006. He also got on-base at a .388 clip and hit 41 homers.

Anyone would take that over .300 and 25.

Taveras' batting stroke projects to a .280-.310 hitter and he has easy 25 HR power. He's also a fairly disciplined hitter with good command of the strike zone. I'd damn sure take a guy hitting .270 in a year with bad BABIP luck over a guy hitting .290 and walking three percent of the time (like one of your personal saviors) if player A is walking three times and often.

I'll put it this way: Taveras projects as an .850+ OPS corner outfielder with plus defense, or the ability to play center.

And given the Cardinals' recent history of developing their players, I'll trust that projection, although I understand why Royals fans would be jaundiced, as you've pimped the likes of Kila Kai'huae, Mike Moustakas, Lorenzo Cain, Alcides Escobar, and countless others as difference makers, not AAAA players.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by CJizzles

As Royals fans you'd think other fans would listen to us about highly touted prospects not working out as expected.

I hate to break this to you, but your failure rate isn't just related to the cream of your crop.

Look, the Royals are ****ing terrible at drafting and developing players.

There are several potential reasons why this could be:

1) Systemic flaws in your minor league development system (which you all seemed to agree with a month ago when you fired those buffoons teaching your ML hitters, BTW)

2) Poor scouting

3) Bad luck

Almost all seem to be willing to pass it off as 3). Do you think that teams like the Rays, A's, Pirates, and Cardinals are just luckier than you? The only black cloud I see hanging over Kauffman is one of incompetence, not misfortune.