****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by TEX

BUT "Why don't they just" hand the ball off to #10 on 3rd and 1?

Same answer as DJ outlined above.... Reid made the call.

You have to take the good with the bad. He's not perfect by any means. But, what coach would you take over him? If he has a health scare and decides to retire, is there a coach that would be an upgrade? AND, Mahomes not being comfortable or trusting of his WR's could be a walk in the park compared to a new coach.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We all seem to be in agreement here. Mahomes is the moneymaker. The reason we won SB's. That's the fantastic part.

The Chiefs need to protect the moneymaker or they are screwed. The moneymaker is now the highest paid player and going to remain that way for the foreseeable future. Do you spend money to protect the reason you can win a SB or risk his health and your season to spend more money on a WR instead of the OL?

We've also seen first hand that if mahomes doesn't trust his WRs he's more likely to hold on to the ball for a while or the beginning of the season where he was running a ton. I get there's plenty of debate about chicken or egg and if mahomes has enough to get rid of the ball quickly. But being able to quickly get rid of the ball goes a really long way toward helping protection.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

We've also seen first hand that if mahomes doesn't trust his WRs he's more likely to hold on to the ball for a while or the beginning of the season where he was running a ton. I get there's plenty of debate about chicken or egg and if mahomes has enough to get rid of the ball quickly. But being able to quickly get rid of the ball goes a really long way toward helping protection.

Is there even really a debate about chicken or egg?

I mean, I will easily concede that it was the 4th quarter implosion that really hammered home the doubts here. And that they were likely even justified for a bit. I have no qualms saying "Man, our receivers eating shit against Detroit really put Mahomes into a tailspin". There - done. It ain't chicken or egg now. It's egg.

But my major point is that NONE of that's gonna change. He has what he has. So he can either keep worrying about it or he can throw the damn football.

Setting aside for a moment what the 'cause' of the indecision may be, the solution HAS to be with Mahomes. I just can't imagine Richie James getting another shot at this is going to save the day. Moore got sidelined for all intents and purposes last week.

If there's a solution, it's going to be 15 that effectuates it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

But the "half the league with QB's on contracts' is the same as it's always been. The other half will always have cheap QB's.

It just doesn't ever happen where once a market is set, it goes backwards. I'd say the 25-30 million dollar mark for high end WR's is where it's gonna be.

Then you get some middle tier guys slot in below that, but they're gonna do cheaper shorter deals and try to continue to cash in.

If you want a borderline #1 guy, you either draft him and have him cheap then pay, or you overpay the FA one that hits the market. And usually, there's a reason said guy is hitting the market.

The swing from last year to this year was gigantic. It was more like 1/3 last year and we not only created a totally new top 5, those guys received generational pay hikes. Herbert, burrow, Lamar, hurts, new money for mahomes. Even geno and Daniel Jones are new money. Next year you add tua and Trevor Lawrence. Their just isn't the disposable cap there once was. At some point teams like philly and Cincy and the chargers can't keep hoarding WR talent. Teams that were stockpiling 3 WRs may keep 1-2.

The WR market will drop if only because it was so absurd just a few years ago. There will soon be an oversupply of really good talent and more teams with way less disposable income.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The swing from last year to this year was gigantic. It was more like 1/3 last year and we not only created a totally new top 5, those guys received generational pay hikes. Herbert, burrow, Lamar, hurts, new money for mahomes. Even geno and Daniel Jones are new money. Next year you add tua and Trevor Lawrence. Their just isn't the disposable cap there once was. At some point teams like philly and Cincy and the chargers can't keep hoarding WR talent. Teams that were stockpiling 3 WRs may keep 1-2.

The WR market will drop if only because it was so absurd just a few years ago. There will soon be an oversupply of really good talent and more teams with way less disposable income.

They got pay hikes as the cap went up generationally.

Now you have teams like the Panthers, the Texans, insert whoever.

Once they're ready to be paid, some of these high prices QB's will be let go or not paid etc.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It corrected last off-season, but part of that was a dearth of available options.

I don't think the top end is going to correct itself, though. More money is being pumped into the system; Jefferson and Chase can ask for (and will receive) more than Hill got. That top of the market is going to keep getting higher and higher.

What you might see is what we saw with QBs about 6-8 years ago; the QB middle class formed instead of every swinging dick free agent passer becoming the new highest paid QB in NFL history...

That's really where you may see some shifts in the FA landscape, IMO.

Top of the market will go up. Which will make it even harder to afford the secondary market. As more offensive playmakers, whether QB or WR, start getting these generational WRs it's gonna get harder and harder for teams to hoard WRs as they have in the past. And ive contended a while back that kc can thrive with a secondary WR market where other teams can't because we can make better use of their talent.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

They got pay hikes as the cap went up generationally.

Now you have teams like the Panthers, the Texans, insert whoever.

Once they're ready to be paid, some of these high prices QB's will be let go or not paid etc.

But you're going from maybe 12 teams with a large contract QB to close to 20 by next year. And from short term deals for guys like Brady and Brees and Rodgers to long term deals where teams are trying to build long windows. Many would argue that most of the top qbs are way overpaid because they're soaking way too high % of a teams cap. So QB salaries have far exceeded inflation.

We havent even factored in the second contract WR boom. That's coming soon too. We had one of the biggest talent booms at WR the past few years. Those guys will start to get paid. All these new contracts eat into the overall pie of money available. And if this means that even 5-10 more teams now have less appetite to spend that's substantial. There will be a lot of talent hitting the market and way less competition to get it

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Jakobi Meyers would've been interesting.

But you're absolutely right - people would've been blasting Veach for not upgrading on Wylie had we gone that route.

Bottom line is that superteams just rarely happen. I'd say top to bottom the Eagles are as close as we've seen in a long-while in that regard and even that took a fair amount of good fortune. Getting a 1st for a washed up Wentz and replacing him with Hurts just isn't something you see everyday. They got an elite LT on the 3rd day through the international player program and on top of that the rest of their OL just seems ageless.

It's just not a sport designed to create teams without holes.

Not me.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Is there even really a debate about chicken or egg?

I mean, I will easily concede that it was the 4th quarter implosion that really hammered home the doubts here. And that they were likely even justified for a bit. I have no qualms saying "Man, our receivers eating shit against Detroit really put Mahomes into a tailspin". There - done. It ain't chicken or egg now. It's egg.

But my major point is that NONE of that's gonna change. He has what he has. So he can either keep worrying about it or he can throw the damn football.

Setting aside for a moment what the 'cause' of the indecision may be, the solution HAS to be with Mahomes. I just can't imagine Richie James getting another shot at this is going to save the day. Moore got sidelined for all intents and purposes last week.

If there's a solution, it's going to be 15 that effectuates it.

Yes there is plenty of debate about how much you want to put it on WRs vs mahomes. Won't open up that rabbit hole. So I will just say that whether it's QB or WR getting rid of the ball quickly will help substantially with protecting mahomes

[TEX]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Same answer as DJ outlined above.... Reid made the call.

You have to take the good with the bad. He's not perfect by any means. But, what coach would you take over him? If he has a health scare and decides to retire, is there a coach that would be an upgrade? AND, Mahomes not being comfortable or trusting of his WR's could be a walk in the park compared to a new coach.

Yes. He's the best. I was just doing a "But why don't they just" thing.

But to answer your question, the guy I'd want to replace Reid if he retired would be Doug Pederson. I think he's a great coach who once played the game himself, great offensive mind and does a great job with QB's. Also understands the importance of having a good defense. Just a solid coach IMO.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by TEX

Yes. He's the best. I was just doing a "But why don't they just" thing.

But to answer your question, the guy I'd want to replace Reid if he retired would be Doug Pederson. I think he's a great coach who once played the game himself, great offensive mind and does a great job with QB's. Also understands the importance of having a good defense. Just a solid coach IMO.

Since he has worked with Mahomes it would make the transition smoother.

I'm not up to speed with what happened in Philly. Why things went south so fast.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by TEX

Yes. He's the best. I was just doing a "But why don't they just" thing.

But to answer your question, the guy I'd want to replace Reid if he retired would be Doug Pederson. I think he's a great coach who once played the game himself, great offensive mind and does a great job with QB's. Also understands the importance of having a good defense. Just a solid coach IMO.

Would love Doug but he's not leaving Jacksonville unfortunately. I don't see why people don't like Nagy. He's got a great relationship with Veach, he kept Fangio instead of firing him when he came a HC and so great work.

The guy had a winning record in Chicago as HC with 2 of the worst highly drafted QB busts in recent memory.

57 TD/30 INT
65% completion %
215 yards passing per game avg
90.6 QB rating

That's elite level work for Trubisky, who also missed 9 games in that 3 years. Nobody has ever gotten that out of that kid and never will.

The Bearc only playoff games in the last 13 games came under Nagy and the only reason they didn't win one was a double-doink FG.

Nagy is a good coach guys. To me he's a younger version of Doug

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But you're going from maybe 12 teams with a large contract QB to close to 20 by next year. And from short term deals for guys like Brady and Brees and Rodgers to long term deals where teams are trying to build long windows. Many would argue that most of the top qbs are way overpaid because they're soaking way too high % of a teams cap. So QB salaries have far exceeded inflation.

We havent even factored in the second contract WR boom. That's coming soon too. We had one of the biggest talent booms at WR the past few years. Those guys will start to get paid. All these new contracts eat into the overall pie of money available. And if this means that even 5-10 more teams now have less appetite to spend that's substantial. There will be a lot of talent hitting the market and way less competition to get it

There won't be 20 QB's paid by next year, it'll settle in around 10 where it usually is.

[VAGOMO 4 LIFE!]

WE GOT HIM @NFL PACK HIM UP pic.twitter.com/4cT7zyofGK

— SNKC (@snkcmo) November 10, 2023

[TLO]

Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!

WE GOT HIM @NFL PACK HIM UP pic.twitter.com/4cT7zyofGK

— SNKC (@snkcmo) November 10, 2023

What??