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ROYC75 · 02:02 PM

Discussion: All things Broncos.

**RealSNR** · 07-07-2023, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

in a running league

There it is again.

Is John Elway's face so messed up because the leather helmets were inadequate protection?

Garcia Bronco · 07-07-2023, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcgreene

While we're piling on Horseface, I did a little digging on some stat lines and also did a little math to find some interesting stats regarding Dan Reeves and his Quarterbacks.

John Elway's 16 game averages under Dan Reeves:

54.7 Comp %, 482 Att, 3357 Yds, 17.55 TDs, 17.44 INTs, 7.0 YPA, 73.8 Passer Rating

Now let's look at 1981 Broncos. 38 Year old Craig Morton playing under Dan Reeves:

59.8 Comp %, 376 att, 3195 Yds, 21 TDs, 14 INTs, 8.5 YPA, 90.5 Passer Rating

Now let's do one more, let's look at the Dan Reeves system in Atlanta:
The 16 Game Average of QB Chris Chandler from 1997-2001:

58.7 Comp %/ 393 Att/3121 Yds/20.47 TDs/13.17 INTs/7.9 YPA/87.4 Passer Rating

Yea... further digging is showing Elway is more overrated than I was even perceiving. Literally when you control for coach he is worse than legendary two time pro bowler Chris Chandler.

I mean, I know Chris Chandler and Craig Morton under the same coach is a pretty high bar for Elway to meet, but...

John Elway and the Broncos blew out Chandler and the Falcons in Super Bowl 33 and that was also a run heavy Falcon team. I think Anderson had the most runs that year too.

Mile High Mania · 07-07-2023, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcgreene

While we're piling on Horseface, I did a little digging on some stat lines and also did a little math to find some interesting stats regarding Dan Reeves and his Quarterbacks.

John Elway's 16 game averages under Dan Reeves:

54.7 Comp %, 482 Att, 3357 Yds, 17.55 TDs, 17.44 INTs, 7.0 YPA, 73.8 Passer Rating

Now let's look at 1981 Broncos. 38 Year old Craig Morton playing under Dan Reeves:

59.8 Comp %, 376 att, 3195 Yds, 21 TDs, 14 INTs, 8.5 YPA, 90.5 Passer Rating

Now let's do one more, let's look at the Dan Reeves system in Atlanta:
The 16 Game Average of QB Chris Chandler from 1997-2001:

58.7 Comp %/ 393 Att/3121 Yds/20.47 TDs/13.17 INTs/7.9 YPA/87.4 Passer Rating

Yea... further digging is showing Elway is more overrated than I was even perceiving. Literally when you control for coach he is worse than legendary two time pro bowler Chris Chandler.

I mean, I know Chris Chandler and Craig Morton under the same coach is a pretty high bar for Elway to meet, but...

**New World Order** · 07-07-2023, 10:10 AM

I think we can all agree, even Garicia that Mahomes is light years ahead of Elway.

He's going to likely win more Superbowls than Denver has in their franchise's history.

RunKC · 07-07-2023, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

6 AFC championship games, 5 Super Bowl Starts, League MVP, Super Bowl MVP, 3rd in all-time TDs at retirement in a running league, retired with the Most wins ever by a starting QB. Name the QBs that have started 5 Super Bowls. It's a short list.

Elway didn't really face any great QB's on great teams. The 80's through about 1995 were all about the NFC. Giants, Redskins, 49ers. Then the Cowboys and Packers in early to mid 90's.

Elway beat the Browns dude. He beat the Marty Chiefs with Grbac. He played in an easy conference.

It's like the NFC today. All the great teams are in the AFC while the NFC is laughably bad. And that showed when Elway got his ass kicker every SB in the 80's

Garcia Bronco · 07-07-2023, 10:10 AM

Look Chiefs, it okay to acknowledge that Elway is one of the greatest of all times, and I can tell by the comment that many of you were either too young to remember or didn't get to see those games. Mahomes is damn near an Elway clone with his style of play, congrats to him. He'll also go down as one of the greatest of all time. Enjoy it, but don't try and diminish Elway when its clear how great he was. Just stop.

**ptlyon** · 07-07-2023, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Look Chiefs, it okay to acknowledge that Elway is one of the greatest of all times, and I can tell by the comment that many of you were either too young to remember or didn't get to see those games. Mahomes is damn near an Elway clone with his style of play, congrats to him. He'll also go down as one of the greatest of all time. Enjoy it, but don't try and diminish Elway when its clear how great he was. Just stop.

WTF dot gif

**New World Order** · 07-07-2023, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Look Chiefs, it okay to acknowledge that Elway is one of the greatest of all times, and I can tell by the comment that many of you were either too young to remember or didn't get to see those games. Mahomes is damn near an Elway clone with his style of play, congrats to him. He'll also go down as one of the greatest of all time. Enjoy it, but don't try and diminish Elway when its clear how great he was. Just stop.

It's really going to hurt when Mahomes surpasses your franchise's SB count...by himself.

ToxSocks · 07-07-2023, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Look Chiefs, it okay to acknowledge that Elway is one of the greatest of all times, and I can tell by the comment that many of you were either too young to remember or didn't get to see those games. Mahomes is damn near an Elway clone with his style of play, congrats to him. He'll also go down as one of the greatest of all time. Enjoy it, but don't try and diminish Elway when its clear how great he was. Just stop.

Yeah but....when Mahomes reign is over, no one will be able to invalidate him with statistical arguments because his domination will be provable through pretty much every available metric, unlike Elway.

Garcia Bronco · 07-07-2023, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Elway didn't really face any great QB's on great teams. The 80's through about 1995 were all about the NFC. Giants, Redskins, 49ers. Then the Cowboys and Packers in early to mid 90's.

Elway beat the Browns dude. He beat the Marty Chiefs with Grbac. He played in an easy conference.

It's like the NFC today. All the great teams are in the AFC while the NFC is laughably bad. And that showed when Elway got his ass kicker every SB in the 80's

Which QB ended the NFC's 13 year run of winning the Super Bowl? Wasn't Jim Kelly despite 4 straight attempts. Wasn't Dan Marino. Wasn't Tony Eason or Todd Blackledge. Wasn't Warren Moon. Wasn't Boomer. Wasn't SD Stan, Bledsoe, or O'Donnell. Who was it?

Garcia Bronco · 07-07-2023, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Yeah but....when Mahomes reign is over, no one will be able to invalidate him with statistical arguments because his domination will be provable through pretty much every available metric, unlike Elway.

Wins is the on stat that truly counts, brother.

kcgreene · 07-07-2023, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

John Elway and the Broncos blew out Chandler and the Falcons in Super Bowl 33 and that was also a run heavy Falcon team. I think Anderson had the most runs that year too.

And yet Chandler's statline is more desirable than Elways when controlled for the same coach.

If there's anything I've learned from this, I respect that ratface Shanahan a lot more than I did 3 hours ago, but compared to other QBs under Dan Reeves system, Elway was an inferior quarterback to them. Wouldn't you think such a "Transcendent" Quarterback would have better stats in a similar system? I mean, this isn't even HoF talent we're talking about here. When controlled for system, he was producing worse than Chris Chandler and Craig Morton.

I'm now entirely convinced. Shanahan and Davis won those Super Bowls. Horseface was just along for the ride.

**New World Order** · 07-07-2023, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Yeah but....when Mahomes reign is over, no one will be able to invalidate him with statistical arguments because his domination will be provable through pretty much every available metric, unlike Elway.

Excellent.

Now, let's get back to talking about how much the Donkos suck...

**New World Order** · 07-07-2023, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Wins is the on stat that truly counts, brother.

Ok.

Terry Bradshaw>John Elway

Garcia Bronco · 07-07-2023, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order

It's really going to hurt when Mahomes surpasses your franchise's SB count...by himself.

He might. He might not. I always said when the league made it damn near impossible to hit the QB that the Chiefs might be a winner again. And here we are.

08-12-2014, 04:26 PM
ROYC75 Time For Your Wake Up Call !!! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Barn Yard Casino cash: $3791400	Broncos news megathread Discussion: All things Broncos. Last edited by ROYC75; 01-11-2017 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: Change Title, Please?
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07-07-2023, 10:10 AM	#64189
New World Order Choco Favre Join Date: Jul 2012 Casino cash: $584765	I think we can all agree, even Garicia that Mahomes is light years ahead of Elway. He's going to likely win more Superbowls than Denver has in their franchise's history.
Posts: 30,908

07-07-2023, 10:10 AM	#64191
Garcia Bronco No Keys, No Problem Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Denver Casino cash: $3313136	Look Chiefs, it okay to acknowledge that Elway is one of the greatest of all times, and I can tell by the comment that many of you were either too young to remember or didn't get to see those games. Mahomes is damn near an Elway clone with his style of play, congrats to him. He'll also go down as one of the greatest of all time. Enjoy it, but don't try and diminish Elway when its clear how great he was. Just stop.
Posts: 31,885