WTF is with Mahomes?

[petegz28]

Since the Super Bowl the dude has not looked right. Now he is just flat playing with his head in his ass.

I think he needs to get over himself a bit. He has 2 critical INT's this season that are 100% his fault that he had 0% reason to every try and it cost us points, 1 game and maybe 2.

[GT_34]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

As far as Mahomes is concerned, drifting back is still in the pocket. He's not rolling out. He's looking downfield, sticking inside the tackle box, not rolling out and striking downfield.

A QB could run all the way from the goalline towards his own endzone and still be considered in the tackle box.

I don't think that's a useful definition of "in the pocket".

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Ok, so i finished the video. Here's what i counted:

TD passes inside the tackle box (traditional drop back pass): 23
Shuffle Passes that went for a TD: 5

TD passes while rolling out: 10

Interestingly, of those 10 roll out pass TD's, i believe all but 1 or 2 were within 15 yards of the end zone. That seemed to be more of a redzone scheme thing than Mahomes actually NEEDING to roll out.

Nearly every pass outside of the redzone came from a traditional drop back pass.

There, i did your homework for you, JakeF. It's your turn to show your work now.

That is close to what I got:

Out of the pocket: 15 (14 of those I would define as rolling out)
In the pocket: 23

That = 38 TD's that he threw in 2020

And yes near the end zone they rolled out alot by design.

So I was wrong but still 38% of his TD passes were out of pocket.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by GT_34

A QB could run all the way from the goalline towards his own endzone and still be considered in the tackle box.

I don't think that's a useful definition of "in the pocket".

For the sake of this argument, he's not rolling out. That's the point. He's not making all of these plays by juking defenders and scrambling to his right or left. For the most part, he's taking a deep drop and then stepping UP.

He's not running left and right. He's drifting and then stepping up into his throws while remaining behind his guards.

He was staying calm, keeping his eyes downfield and striking with his feet mostly planted.

He's not running horizontal and cutting the field in half, which is essentially what JakeF is arguing, and is what is implied when people say he's breaking the pocket.

And of the plays he DID do that in, nearly every single one of them was within 10 yards of the the endzone, which were likely designed rollouts.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

That is close to what I got:

Out of the pocket: 15 (14 of those I would define as rolling out)
In the pocket: 23

That = 40 TD's that he threw in 2020

And yes near the end zone they rolled out alot by design.

So I was wrong but still 38% of his TD passes were out of pocket.

You're counting shuffle passes as out of the pocket? He stands directly behind center and then tosses inside or out while barely even moving his feet.

He threw 38 TD's last season by the way so you've counted two over from somewhere.

Are you going to disagree that nearly every roll out TD pass was in the redzone and was clearly a designed rollout?

I think your video is evident as **** that Mahomes was NOT rolling out like JakeF claims and that even his "rollout" TD's were by design, not tendency or neccesity.

[crispystl]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I thought Mahomes' pocket presence was better yesterday. He looked pretty damn poised in a lot of his drop backs. There wasn't much scrambling around. He had good protection most of the night too. IIRC he wasn't hit often and his jersey remained clean most of the night.

Yeah I didn't think he was panicking and bailing out of clean pockets near as much last night as the last two games.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We're defining the pocket very differently.

As far as Mahomes is concerned, drifting back is still in the pocket. He's not rolling out. He's looking downfield, sticking inside the tackle box, not rolling out and striking downfield.

JakeF is arguing that Mahomes has to roll out. He's not rolling out in your video here.

I think this is the issue. It feels like where he was "in the pocket" and where this O-line and the adjustments made by defensive coordinators now requires him to be are quite different. I wonder how much dropping miles back just allowed him to see the field the better and how much being asked to be that much closer in has caused some of his struggles.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I think this is the issue. It feels like where he was "in the pocket" and where this O-line and the adjustments made by defensive coordinators now requires him to be are quite different. I wonder how much dropping miles back just allowed him to see the field the better and how much being asked to be that much closer in has caused some of his struggles.

I think it's a good, interesting point.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You're counting shuffle passes as out of the pocket? He stands directly behind center and then tosses inside or out while barely even moving his feet.

He threw 38 TD's last season by the way so you've counted two over from somewhere.

Are you going to disagree that nearly every roll out TD pass was in the redzone and was clearly a designed rollout?

I think your video is evident as **** that Mahomes was NOT rolling out like JakeF claims and that even his "rollout" TD's were by design, not tendency or neccesity.

I think I only counted 1 of those and I am watching it now. It was against the Jets and he rolled out to the right and shoveled it to Kelce.

Nope no disagreement, most of his TD rollouts were designed. Those that weren't in the red zone it looks like the defense was mostly all man. Definitely not seeing that now.

After watching these 2 things come to mind. He is not getting any man defense any more and he looks so comfortable which leads me to believe he doesn't trust his protection.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by crispystl

Yeah I didn't think he was panicking and bailing out of clean pockets near as much last night as the last two games.

I thought he looked excellent last night, aside from missing a few deep shots. Which, again, these aren't your traditional deep passes. He's trying to get the ball out and over two deep safeties.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I think this is the issue. It feels like where he was "in the pocket" and where this O-line and the adjustments made by defensive coordinators now requires him to be are quite different. I wonder how much dropping miles back just allowed him to see the field the better and how much being asked to be that much closer in has caused some of his struggles.

Yep.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I think I only counted 1 of those and I am watching it now. It was against the Jets and he rolled out to the right and shoveled it to Kelce.

Nope no disagreement, most of his TD rollouts were designed. Those that weren't in the red zone it looks like the defense was mostly all man. Definitely not seeing that now.

After watching these 2 things come to mind. He is not getting any man defense any more and he looks so comfortable which leads me to believe he doesn't trust his protection.

I think Mahomes is close, man. I think he is. I think he's gonna turn it around here soon.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I thought he looked excellent last night, aside from missing a few deep shots. Which, again, these aren't your traditional deep passes. He's trying to get the ball out and over two deep safeties.

We talking about Mahomes? He looked like shit, dude.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

We talking about Mahomes? He looked like shit, dude.

I disagree. Not back to his usual self, but i thought he worked the pocket well at least. He wasn't yipy. He had a couple of misses but overall i thought he made some incremental steps to getting better.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I think this is the issue. It feels like where he was "in the pocket" and where this O-line and the adjustments made by defensive coordinators now requires him to be are quite different. I wonder how much dropping miles back just allowed him to see the field the better and how much being asked to be that much closer in has caused some of his struggles.

Good point. My friend and I we're discussing that very issue during the game yesterday.

[Red Beans]

Mahomes in a slump is better than any QB we've had in the last 30 years. I'm not satisfied with his performance, but I have to acknowledge that my expectations are pretty high.