Royals 2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 417

**alnorth** · 10:54 PM

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:

Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

Quote:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

eazyb81 · 07-30-2012, 11:10 AM

Glass sucks and will continue to suck. That just isn't going to change and KC can't fire him (although we should have demanded financial guarantees from him when we renovated the K, such as specific payroll floors with annual escalators).

But I've seen enough from Moore to conclude that he is a fcking baseball moron. He simply does not understand what makes baseball players valuable or how to allocate resources to build a successful MLB team. He is in over his head as a GM but would be a very good scouting director where he can focus solely on the draft and international signings.

It is possible to win without a massive $100+ million payroll, but you need outside the box thinking and a GM that understands why guaranteeing $14 million to Jeff Francoeur and signing Yuni Betancourt are terrible decisions.

Andrew Friedman, Jon Daniels, Theo Epstein, and Alex Anthopoulos could absolutely win in KC. Our next GM needs to be ultra intelligent, not just a baseball lifer.

**petegz28** · 07-30-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Glass sucks and will continue to suck. That just isn't going to change and KC can't fire him (although we should have demanded financial guarantees from him when we renovated the K, such as specific payroll floors with annual escalators).

But I've seen enough from Moore to conclude that he is a fcking baseball moron. He simply does not understand what makes baseball players valuable or how to allocate resources to build a successful MLB team. He is in over his head as a GM but would be a very good scouting director where he can focus solely on the draft and international signings.

It is possible to win without a massive $100+ million payroll, but you need outside the box thinking and a GM that understands why guaranteeing $14 million to Jeff Francoeur and signing Yuni Betancourt are terrible decisions.

Andrew Friedman, Jon Daniels, Theo Epstein, and Alex Anthopoulos could absolutely win in KC. Our next GM needs to be ultra intelligent, not just a baseball lifer.

Here is Dayton Moore in a 9 points and what it takes to be a good GM with someone like Glass. It is something most of us deal with on a daily basis:

1. Glass.."I want to buy this player..."
2. Moore.."That player isn't very good..."
3. Glass.."I've heard good things, buy him..."
4. Moore.."Okay.."

1 season later

5. Glass..."That player you bought sure does suck.."
6. Moore.."It's not my fault, you told me to buy him.."
7. Glass.."Sure it's your fault.."
8. Moore.."Why is it my fault, I didn't say to buy him?"
9. Glass.."Cause you did a poor job of talking me out of buying him!"

**DeezNutz** · 07-30-2012, 12:47 PM

I don't believe that Glass is involved at all in day-to-day baseball operations. Not one bit. This is DM's baby.

Petro talking about the need to try to trade Ventura and Jason Adams. Couldn't agree more.

**HemiEd** · 07-30-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

This season was all about putting on a nice show for the All Star Game. That's it. That's done, they're playing out the string now. Season was over in KC once the ASG was played. Losing is part of the corporate culture with the Royals. It's comfortable, it's familiar, its expected, and nobody is pressuring them to change anything. We lost last year. We're losing this year. We'll lose again next year. As long as they make money, it is what it is. It's nothing personal, it's just business, Royals Fans. Hey, we'll win in 2014 or 2015, we promise. Yep. Just two or three more years, honest.

They aren't mathematically eliminated from winning a 100 games yet. But this stuff is getting pretty darn old.

duncan_idaho · 07-30-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Glass sucks and will continue to suck. That just isn't going to change and KC can't fire him (although we should have demanded financial guarantees from him when we renovated the K, such as specific payroll floors with annual escalators).

But I've seen enough from Moore to conclude that he is a fcking baseball moron. He simply does not understand what makes baseball players valuable or how to allocate resources to build a successful MLB team. He is in over his head as a GM but would be a very good scouting director where he can focus solely on the draft and international signings.

It is possible to win without a massive $100+ million payroll, but you need outside the box thinking and a GM that understands why guaranteeing $14 million to Jeff Francoeur and signing Yuni Betancourt are terrible decisions.

Andrew Friedman, Jon Daniels, Theo Epstein, and Alex Anthopoulos could absolutely win in KC. Our next GM needs to be ultra intelligent, not just a baseball lifer.

Moore's biggest problem is that he is so goddamn stubborn. He simply will NOT move off of what the scout's eye tells him about a player, no matter how much evidence is given to the contrary.

GMs make mistakes. it's going to happen. It's how they REACT to those mistakes that draws the line between good GMs and bad GMs.

Good GMs realize early on that Jonathan Sanchez has completely lost it and kick him to the curb much earlier.

Good GMs realize that though Jeff Francouer had a great 2011 and has an awesome smile, he had regressed terribly and isn't even playing good defense. And that they should give the young stud a go in his spot rather than blocking the young stud.

Good GMs realize that Yuni Betancourt is NOT a good defensive player, no matter how many times he makes a dazzling play. (I'll be honest on this one... I thought his D at second would likely play "up" and range would be less of an issue).

Moore has done some great things in KC. The Ramp up not only of the minor league talent, but the overall system (# of teams, instructors, coaching, academies, etc) is impressive and a strong achievement. Getting ownership to commit to spending in the minor league draft (all of it) and in Latin America was a needed step.

But the time for that being enough has passed. Dayton has one more crack at this, in my opinion.

Next year is the year this team SHOULD begin to win - not just make .500, win. It is more than enough time. The young players from Dayton's first few drafts will have all had normal development time. The young stars are in place.

Find starting pitching. Win next year. Problem solved. Otherwise... GTFO.

KevB · 07-30-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I don't believe that Glass is involved at all in day-to-day baseball operations. Not one bit. This is DM's baby.

Petro talking about the need to try to trade Ventura and Jason Adams. Couldn't agree more.

But, what if he's being told not to add material $ to payroll right now? What if he wanted Edwin Jackson in the off-season but Glass wouldn't allow it? We're never going to hear about that, because the underlings aren't going to bite the hand that feeds.

I have no idea if that is or isn't happening, but it's plausible. There's clearly a systemic problem with the organization, and at this point blame has to fall at the feet of the owner, period. [Not that there isn't enough blame to be spread around of course]

Ceej · 07-30-2012, 01:04 PM

i r an idiot.

**DeezNutz** · 07-30-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB

But, what if he's being told not to add material $ to payroll right now? What if he wanted Edwin Jackson in the off-season but Glass wouldn't allow it? We're never going to hear about that, because the underlings aren't going to bite the hand that feeds.

I have no idea if that is or isn't happening, but it's plausible. There's clearly a systemic problem with the organization, and at this point blame has to fall at the feet of the owner, period. [Not that there isn't enough blame to be spread around of course]

DM wastes more than enough money so we can't put all of the blame on Glass.

Chen for 4.5. Frenchy for 6.5. There's the money for Edwin Jackson. Blows another 1 million on Guthrie. Blows another 4 on Broxton.

Royals have been hampered by poor decisions probably more than they've been hampered by lack of funds.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 07-30-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB

But, what if he's being told not to add material $ to payroll right now? What if he wanted Edwin Jackson in the off-season but Glass wouldn't allow it? We're never going to hear about that, because the underlings aren't going to bite the hand that feeds.

I have no idea if that is or isn't happening, but it's plausible. There's clearly a systemic problem with the organization, and at this point blame has to fall at the feet of the owner, period. [Not that there isn't enough blame to be spread around of course]

Wishing someone would make move A or move B isn't criticizing Moore, necessarily. Most of the criticism is about the moves he does make, when there are moves he can make INTERNALLY within the organization that are just so stupuidly obvious and BETTER, yet he still sticks to his guns.

Example A.

Everyone and their mother complained about the frenchy signing a year and half ago. He has a good year, and people think... he found an acorn... Dayton runs out and signs his guy that had an above average year for a ridiculously bad contract extension... everyone starts bitching again.

The only way he could screw up the Frenchy acquisition after the year he had was to do what he did and put Frenchy in a position (with the contract) to force the fans and organization to have even more elevated expectations from him.

Frenchy fails, and he fails badly... now we're stuck. He's the face of Marketing, they've got promotions surrounding the guy, and he's the worst statistcal every-day player in the Majors (even with Yuni still in the big leagues). There is a phenom knocking on the door being blocked by this guy.

Dayton has pissed down his leg through this whole ordeal.. and this is just with ONE FREAKING PLAYER. The errors in judgement are all over the place.

Yuni.
Yuni a second time.
I try not to give Dayton a difficult time on the Sanchez trade because no one saw that coming. But you still have to take it into consideration.
Vin Mazzaro
Kyle Davies
Sean O'Sullivan
Brian Bannister

Note: These last 4 pitchers are guys Dayton TRADED FOR... he went out and got from another organization because he wanted them.

This list can go on endlessly.

Dayton is a very, very bad GM.

ChiefsCountry · 07-30-2012, 01:51 PM

Meh on Yuni. If you use him how he would ideally be used as a super sub, he would be fine. Him playing everyday sucks, but that is mainly bc Moose is hurt. If we had a legit second baseman and Yuni could be a super ulitity guy that would be fine.

**DeezNutz** · 07-30-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Meh on Yuni. If you use him how he would ideally be used as a super sub, he would be fine. Him playing everyday sucks, but that is mainly bc Moose is hurt. If we had a legit second baseman and Yuni could be a super ulitity guy that would be fine.

Getz is a better 2B. Getz hurt? Falu would be better. Gio would be better.

You can't say that Gio is down because of his defense and then play Yuni regularly. It's a farce, but that's Royals baseball under DM.

**DeezNutz** · 07-30-2012, 02:01 PM

Betancourt is like the STD that DM cannot get rid of. Remember when he tried to trade Butler for Betancourt when the latter was with Seattle? That would have been win.

Great Expectations · 07-30-2012, 02:03 PM

Getz should be option 1 at 2b, when he is hurt Johnny G should become the 1st option. Yuni should only platoon to give guys a day off every once in a while. For some reason he is playing everyday.

It is clear that Yost wanted to play Myers based on his answers during the ASB about him. Yost has no qualms about playing the young guys.

duncan_idaho · 07-30-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

[*]Vin Mazzaro
[*]Kyle Davies
[*]Sean O'Sullivan
[*]Brian Bannister[/LIST]Note: These last 4 pitchers are guys Dayton TRADED FOR... he went out and got from another organization because he wanted them.

This list can go on endlessly.

Dayton is a very, very bad GM.

Lots of room for criticism of Moore. But picking on those items is a stretch, IMO. Like it or not, those guys were better than anything available in-house, and at least had a glimmer of upside. The counterpart is acquiring older, more expensive and equally bad guys off t

Vin Mazzero was acquired along with Justin Marks. Mazzero isn't good - he also isn't as bad as his disaster start last year - but Marks still might have promise. He's got back-end-rotation value, and DeJesus has gone on to suck in Oakland and be meh in Chicago.

Simple matter of fact is that DeJesus wasn't that great of a player, and his injury just before the trade deadline killed his trade value (The Royals were talking with the Red Sox and likely to get either Reddick or Kalish in return).

Davies was a gamble, a lotto ticket. The problem wasn't in receiving him in trade (Almost IDENTICAL to James McDonald of Pittsburgh, who also was acquired midseason for Dotel). It was in stubbornly going to him year and year, start after start.

Sean O'Sullivan came over with Will Smith, who is working out pretty well. Meanwhile, Callaspo is expensive and not very good (and was last year, too).

Moore deserves more criticism for his decision making after-fact than for anything else. His trade record is not stellar, but it isn't the colossal fail most make it out to be (when compared to success rates of other GMs).

If Moore's biggest problem was his trade record, the Royals would be in much better shape. Alas, his biggest problem is his refusal to look at baseball with new filters, and his stubborn loyalty to certain players (for no apparent reason).

ShowtimeSBMVP · 07-30-2012, 02:15 PM

DKnobler ‏@DKnobler

Royals still listening on Broxton, but offers so far haven't been encouraging.

07-30-2012, 11:10 AM	#6241
eazyb81 The Illuminati Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the road less traveled Casino cash: $9984900	Glass sucks and will continue to suck. That just isn't going to change and KC can't fire him (although we should have demanded financial guarantees from him when we renovated the K, such as specific payroll floors with annual escalators). But I've seen enough from Moore to conclude that he is a fcking baseball moron. He simply does not understand what makes baseball players valuable or how to allocate resources to build a successful MLB team. He is in over his head as a GM but would be a very good scouting director where he can focus solely on the draft and international signings. It is possible to win without a massive $100+ million payroll, but you need outside the box thinking and a GM that understands why guaranteeing $14 million to Jeff Francoeur and signing Yuni Betancourt are terrible decisions. Andrew Friedman, Jon Daniels, Theo Epstein, and Alex Anthopoulos could absolutely win in KC. Our next GM needs to be ultra intelligent, not just a baseball lifer.
Posts: 12,033

07-30-2012, 01:04 PM	#6247
Ceej BOOM!1! Join Date: Aug 2004 Casino cash: $6755541	i r an idiot.
Posts: 19,219

07-30-2012, 01:51 PM	#6250
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1361248	Meh on Yuni. If you use him how he would ideally be used as a super sub, he would be fine. Him playing everyday sucks, but that is mainly bc Moose is hurt. If we had a legit second baseman and Yuni could be a super ulitity guy that would be fine.
Posts: 51,990

07-30-2012, 02:03 PM	#6253
Great Expectations MVP Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Joplin, MO Casino cash: $10892338	Getz should be option 1 at 2b, when he is hurt Johnny G should become the 1st option. Yuni should only platoon to give guys a day off every once in a while. For some reason he is playing everyday. It is clear that Yost wanted to play Myers based on his answers during the ASB about him. Yost has no qualms about playing the young guys. __________________
Posts: 7,302

07-30-2012, 02:15 PM	#6255
ShowtimeSBMVP Chiefs Join Date: Feb 2009 Casino cash: $1326009	DKnobler ‏@DKnobler Royals still listening on Broxton, but offers so far haven't been encouraging.
Posts: 23,832