BURROWHEAD: Bengals talking a lot of sh1ttttt

[NIUhuskies]

I love that are doing this. Probably not smart to poke the bear

Spoiler!

Burrowhead �� pic.twitter.com/QQUL8ELEt9

— ZIM (@zimwhodey) January 24, 2023

Willie just posted this one on his story

I just feel like everyone is going to spend all week talking about Mahomes' ankle or Burrow being a Demigod or Chase against this young secondary or Lou Anarumo being a psychopath...and then in the end it's just going to Samaje Perine bludgeoning Bolton and Gay to death.

— Brett Kollmann (@BrettKollmann) January 23, 2023

AU_wde_2 posted [Willie Gay on IG] Taking some bulletin board material from Brett Kollmann https://t.co/NclopGIsUv https://t.co/gLVGqLP4N2

— r/KansasCityChiefs (@ChiefsOnReddit) January 24, 2023

I appreciate a good troll job….hats off to Cincinnati…definitely the only time I’m saying it. #ArrowheadInvitational #burrowhead #ChiefsKingdom #whodey #bengals pic.twitter.com/SH2tT9z4Or

— Bean (@JoeyFakaBean) January 24, 2023

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Oh wow.

I mean...that's pretty damning. I didn't realize it was that pervasive, especially when viewed on concert with some of his post-season numbers.

It's awfully strange to me that the first thing people say about the guy is that he's clutch (again, presumptively based on a single win against a team that collapsed offensively in the 2nd half). Literally every other bit of evidence suggests the opposite.

Say he's an incredible pure passer or brilliant processor if you want. I have a harder time coming up with an obvious rebuttal to that.

But the clutch thing? That one's just strange. There's seemingly little basis for it.

It's been ramped up this year (seemingly). I don't know how consistent that is for his career and i almost think i need to go back and watch those close games to see how what he's done for his career stacks up against what Mahomes and Allen have done in similar situations. 'Ball in hand with a chance to extend or win'. I did that breakdown earlier about supposed clutchness for his career but i didn't really look at it under that fine a microscope. I do know he only has like 6 GWDs in his career so i don't know that previous years are going to look a whole lot different than this year but i'd like to see how it compares to the other 2.

[ThaVirus]

Shit, if anything I think the clutch gene is still in tact. Anytime we absolutely need a drive with points, he delivers.

Our last drive against the Broncos yielded points that took the lead. The last drive against the Bills yielded points to make it a 2 point game. It was the clutch factor itself that caused the 4th down conversion from Buffalo. They knew they couldn’t give us the ball back with a 5 point lead.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, I have to agree.

Though if I’m honest, Pat hasn’t been super clutch recently either. If we’re brutally honest about it, the defense has been more clutch than Mahomes during the streak.

But Pat has managed to lead several game-winning drives in there, so we think of him as clutch

And that's the thing. Regardless of how you get there, if you're close and put the ball in your QBs hand and he's a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar etc., you expect him to succeed more often than not. Even if he's not having the best game/season.

Clutch is clutch and it's really pretty easy to see if you're willing to look close enough.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

The best 4 QB's of this era right now are generally considered to be Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Jackson.

Per PFR, since 2018 (year they became starters) Mahomes has 20 game winning drives, Allen with 21, Jackson with 12.

Now, Burrow didn't start till 2020 and obviously, has had some injuries and missed some time, but has 7 GWD's for his career, all in 2021 & 2022.

Zero GWD's last year or this year, per PFR.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

And that's the thing. Regardless of how you get there, if you're close and put the ball in your QBs hand and he's a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar etc., you expect him to succeed more often than not. Even if he's not having the best game/season.

Clutch is clutch and it's really pretty easy to see if you're willing to look close enough.

And here's the strangest part - Some of Mahomes being clutch truly was "**** it, Tyreek's down there somewhere..."

Or ripping it over the seam to Kelce and letting him work.

Burrow HAS those guys in Chase and Higgins. Chase is a walking explosive play and Higgins is as good a high-point catcher as the league has right now on contested catches.

Those are two of the most critical elements to a 'gotta have it' sort of drive and Burrow has never really known a world without them. And yet here we are.

That's....bad. That's real bad.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

The best 4 QB's of this era right now are generally considered to be Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and Jackson.

Per PFR, since 2018 (year they became starters) Mahomes has 20 game winning drives, Allen with 21, Jackson with 12.

Now, Burrow didn't start till 2020 and obviously, has had some injuries and missed some time, but has 7 GWD's for his career, all in 2021 & 2022.

Zero GWD's last year or this year, per PFR.

Curious those QB numbers if you threw playoffs in there as well.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Curious those QB numbers if you threw playoffs in there as well.

Figured that was coming.

ZERO for Allen and Jackson.

Two GWD's for Burrow. Both in 2021. Back to back weeks. Tenn. and KC. Led the GW FG drive in OT against us.

Mahomes has six. One in 2019, one in 2021, two in 2022, two in 2023.

All stats, per PFR.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=MahoPa00

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

Figured that was coming.

ZERO for Allen and Jackson.

Two GWD's for Burrow. Both in 2021. Back to back weeks. Tenn. and KC. Led the GW FG drive in OT against us.

Mahomes has six. One in 2019, one in 2021, two in 2022, two in 2023.

All stats, per PFR.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=MahoPa00

That's interesting. IMO Allen deserves credit for the :13 game, because he finished a TD drive with ****ing :13 left. Granted our dudes couldn't even stand up out there and his defense failed to realize Tyreek was fast.

Just goes to show that you can't just go by the blind stats. Just in the games I've ssen, I'd take Allen over Jackson for sure and probably above Burrow.

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Allen gets credit for his play in the .13 seconds game, but it wasn’t a GWD by definition since his team didn’t win. Obviously, not HIS fault in that instance.

But I agree with you. I would take Allen, after Mahomes of course, over any of those other guys. I think he’s the second best QB in the NFL.

That said, all of Allen’s playoff wins have been by his team being up by a bunch or his team having to hold on at the end. Very rarely did Buffalo get down to the other team and require a comeback to win (at least not in the games he won). Obviously, in the games he lost, he didn’t get it done (although I’m willing to grant an exception for the 13 seconds game)

[Red Dawg]

Rings are how you are judged in pro football. Mahomes has 3. Ask Marino how he's judged having none.

[rfaulk34]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Shit, if anything I think the clutch gene is still in tact. Anytime we absolutely need a drive with points, he delivers.

Our last drive against the Broncos yielded points that took the lead. The last drive against the Bills yielded points to make it a 2 point game. It was the clutch factor itself that caused the 4th down conversion from Buffalo. They knew they couldn’t give us the ball back with a 5 point lead.

That's part of it too. People define clutch differently. Burrow has done what you said here. Gotten the team close, gave them the lead, etc and either the defense or kicker has failed to hold/win. I think that's a valid way to define being clutch; getting or keeping your team close enough to win.

Then there's the drive that extends your lead beyond where an opponent can come back or gives you the win. That's the part where Burrow has come up short, mostly this year but also in 2 critical post season games and some other regular season games.

Dunno. Maybe someone needs to come up with another word that goes beyond clutch in the most critical situations.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

That's interesting. IMO Allen deserves credit for the :13 game, because he finished a TD drive with ****ing :13 left. Granted our dudes couldn't even stand up out there and his defense failed to realize Tyreek was fast.

Just goes to show that you can't just go by the blind stats. Just in the games I've ssen, I'd take Allen over Jackson for sure and probably above Burrow.

I've said it before and will say it again.

Allen is the only QB in football who's A game can stand toe to toe with Mahomes A game.

And if he has fewer and fewer of the B and C games, he'll be at the same level as PM.

Prior this season, the real distinction between the two was that PM just never had games where he shot his own guys out of the game. His B games were a little less frequent than Allen, as were his C games. His D and F games were virtually non-existent.

That's not really the case anymore. Right now, Allen is an equally dangerous QB.

We'll see if that remains the case when the post-season gets here. But history says that Allen is about the only guy in the league who can reasonably claim that his post-season performance is on the same level as PMs. Especially the more mature version of him that's been around the last couple of years (not the hyperactive one that killed them a few years back agains the Texans).

Allen's a remarkable talent. As good as the league's had. In virtually any other era, he'd be the best in the league without much argument.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by New World Order

They gave up 400 ypg. It would have been more if we had a bad offense

They were terrible

Actually I would counter with the idea our offense was so ****ing good and scored so consistently fast that the defense was continually being put back on the field very quickly.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

And that's the thing. Regardless of how you get there, if you're close and put the ball in your QBs hand and he's a Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar etc., you expect him to succeed more often than not. Even if he's not having the best game/season.

Clutch is clutch and it's really pretty easy to see if you're willing to look close enough.

Yeah. I guess what I meant to add was that in these cases where QBs have been "clutch," they also got help from somewhere else as well. Their top-$$$ receivers usually, and as in the case the other night, I don't think Burrow got a lot of help from Higgins/Chase there at the end.

I mean, I remember at least two instances where Joe hit either Chase or Higgins, but they failed to come up with the catches. Now, where those great, really well-placed passes? No, they could've been better in both cases. But they were catchable, and at the end of the day those guys are getting paid stupid $$$ to come down with the ball.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by rfaulk34

That's part of it too. People define clutch differently. Burrow has done what you said here. Gotten the team close, gave them the lead, etc and either the defense or kicker has failed to hold/win. I think that's a valid way to define being clutch; getting or keeping your team close enough to win.

Then there's the drive that extends your lead beyond where an opponent can come back or gives you the win. That's the part where Burrow has come up short, mostly this year but also in 2 critical post season games and some other regular season games.

Dunno. Maybe someone needs to come up with another word that goes beyond clutch in the most critical situations.

This is also the only area Mahomes has ever failed in the post-season.

The Cincy game we lost was a game where he had 3 or 4 opportunities to really just put the game away. And he never could get it done. He the worst half of football he'd ever played to that point.

The defense often takes the blame for that game but you could just as easily put it on Mahomes. Something was just...off.