Veach is the best GM in the NFL

[staylor26]

I don’t think it’s even debatable at this point

[Graystoke]

So Correct.
Veach is a stud GM

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think he got caught in between.

Early on in his tenure there, they had a ton of cap space but hadn't built a foundation around Luck. Then Ballard steps in and gets that foundation built damn near overnight....and Luck walks away.

He was tip-toeing forward last season w/ stuff like the Houston deal and then got more aggressive this season w/ a move like Buckner. But I think if he had Luck still you'd have seen a similar off-season in 2020 to what Veach did in 2019.

Where I give a slight edge to Ballard is that I think he's the best pure eye for talent around right now. I look at that 2018 draft and am just in awe of the thing. And I think Turay is just scratching the surface and could be a force this year if he has recovered from his injury against us.

DeCosta is another guy who deserves a nod here, but the track record is still too short. He ran that scouting department before he took over last year as GM in Baltimore and I think he's been the driving force behind their success for about a decade now. We'll see if he can continue that run with all the additional administrative burdens, but he's a damn good front office guy.

Different circumstances, too, though.

Veach has had QB stability, Ballard had an unprecedented lost season with Luck in 2017 and a surprise retirement before the season started.

Veach was developed through the organization, culture, and coach that he took over for, while Ballard has had to forge his own path while taking over for a team with a QB and absolute dogshit at the other positions. He also had to hire a new head coach and navigate the team through that Josh McDaniels ****ery.

Veach is employed by a stable owner with a smoking hot daughter. Ballard is employed by a 60-year alcoholic and drug addict.

It's all well and good that Ballard has assembled young talent AND saved cap space in three years, and yes, circumstances are clearly different from one another, but if the roles were reversed and Veach got the Colts job and Ballard got the Chiefs job back when each guy was hired, would Ballard be aggressive like Veach? Would we have all the WR weapons we do on offense for Mahomes, or would we look more balanced? Would we be spending that cap space and going for all the marbles with aggressive moves? Would we have a Super Bowl right now? Likewise, we can assume Veach's aggression in KC would lead to misfires in Indy and when combined with the instability of the franchise would lead to some pretty bad seasons, but would Veach actually take that approach if he were in charge of the Colts?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think he got caught in between.

Early on in his tenure there, they had a ton of cap space but hadn't built a foundation around Luck. Then Ballard steps in and gets that foundation built damn near overnight....and Luck walks away.

He was tip-toeing forward last season w/ stuff like the Houston deal and then got more aggressive this season w/ a move like Buckner. But I think if he had Luck still you'd have seen a similar off-season in 2020 to what Veach did in 2019.

Where I give a slight edge to Ballard is that I think he's the best pure eye for talent around right now. I look at that 2018 draft and am just in awe of the thing. And I think Turay is just scratching the surface and could be a force this year if he has recovered from his injury against us.

DeCosta is another guy who deserves a nod here, but the track record is still too short. He ran that scouting department before he took over last year as GM in Baltimore and I think he's been the driving force behind their success for about a decade now. We'll see if he can continue that run with all the additional administrative burdens, but he's a damn good front office guy.

What has impressed me most about veach is cap management. The tyreek and mahomes contracts were masterpieces. Not to mention his brilliant idea to tie players up to a ton of short term overpaid contracts with limited guarantees. It helped us really load up on a super bowl run without crushing us with long term dead money.

[MahiMike]

Without question. Best GM gets us the best players/team.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd lean Ballard, but the Rivers deal remains a really strange one.

The organization writ large is the best in the NFL and that's enough for me.

GTFOOH

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Do you apply this same dumb logic to Mahomes?

Don't forget Veach found Mahomes to begin with.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What has impressed me most about veach is cap management. The tyreek and mahomes contracts were masterpieces. Not to mention his brilliant idea to tie players up to a ton of short term overpaid contracts with limited guarantees. It helped us really load up on a super bowl run without crushing us with long term dead money.

Now lets be fair - Veach has just had to start spinning plates here.

He's had an MVP quarterback for damn near free over the last 2 seasons. That's a crutch that has allowed him to do the things he's done with Watkins and has allowed him the missfire on Hitchens. It's allowed him to get in a straight up bidding war with the Texans and just keep going until Mathieu signed.

Moreover, he's still in the 'lean' years of Clark's deal and even Jones/Mahomes.

From a cap standpoint, he's actually had a pretty easy go of it. He's had some guys here that are willing to play for less (Schwartz, Kelce) because they love the organization. And he had a weird situation with Hill that allowed him to get a significant discount there as well.

I think there's a good basis to say that in the future he'll demonstrate strong cap management skills, but I have a hard time saying at this point that he HAS. He's been a fortunate benefactor of having a head coach that people love playing for and simultaneously hasn't been forced to make any truly difficult 'cap casualty' decisions. Those decisions will come soon enough.

That's when we'll see just how good a cap manager he is. To date we've seen a GM that can/will be aggressive in utilizing his cap when he has a free MVP on his roster who affords him that ability. We'll see if he can still maintain that level of excellence when he has to tighten the belt a bit in the coming years.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Do you apply this same dumb logic to Mahomes?

In a sense yes. Should Mahomes be in HOF or considered the GOAT? I don't think many GMs around the NFL or NFL fans would consider Veach best GM in the NFL other than - homer Chief fans

[eDave]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

In a sense yes. Should Mahomes be in HOF or considered the GOAT? I don't think many GMs around the NFL or NFL fans would consider Veach best GM in the NFL other than - homer Chief fans

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Different circumstances, too, though.

Veach has had QB stability, Ballard had an unprecedented lost season with Luck in 2017 and a surprise retirement before the season started.

Veach was developed through the organization, culture, and coach that he took over for, while Ballard has had to forge his own path while taking over for a team with a QB and absolute dogshit at the other positions. He also had to hire a new head coach and navigate the team through that Josh McDaniels ****ery.

Veach is employed by a stable owner with a smoking hot daughter. Ballard is employed by a 60-year alcoholic and drug addict.

It's all well and good that Ballard has assembled young talent AND saved cap space in three years, and yes, circumstances are clearly different from one another, but if the roles were reversed and Veach got the Colts job and Ballard got the Chiefs job back when each guy was hired, would Ballard be aggressive like Veach? Would we have all the WR weapons we do on offense for Mahomes, or would we look more balanced? Would we be spending that cap space and going for all the marbles with aggressive moves? Would we have a Super Bowl right now? Likewise, we can assume Veach's aggression in KC would lead to misfires in Indy and when combined with the instability of the franchise would lead to some pretty bad seasons, but would Veach actually take that approach if he were in charge of the Colts?

So to make a long story short, your question is essentially "Would the Colts be better off and would the Chiefs be worse off had Ballard been promoted here and Veach gone to Indy?"

I don't think I'm willing to say that, no. I do think you're right in the sense that each team would be different, but I don't think the Chiefs specifically would be worse.

I think they may be a little less flashy - you'd probably see that Watkins money go to someone like Kyle Fuller. Maybe that Hardman pick is used on someone a little less boom/bust like McLaurin. Hard to say that the Clark deal doesn't happen when Ballard just made a very similar deal w/ Buckner.

I mean look - you don't pass on a bird in the hand here so I get it. It's hard to say we'd be better with anyone but Veach. But I also think Veach, as you alluded to, has been put in arguably the best organizational situation in all of pro sports. Ballard...hasn't.

If I'm doing a 'GM Draft' where every front office is detonated and their members scattered to the wind...I think I take Ballard and maybe DeCosta ahead of Veach. I don't think that's some damning indictment of Veach by any means and I don't object to anyone that would take Veach either. But I don't look at what he's done here as anything that those guys couldn't/wouldn't have done.

[Discuss Thrower]

Started rough but the conventional wisdom is you couldn't get away with top dollar contracts going to two WRs, a TE, a multi-role NT/DT and forge a record breaking deal for an almost indisputable #1 QB and Veach has managed to do that for a few seasons going forward.

Mahomes is good enough to gloss over many holes on the roster so it's not a big concern, but I'm going to hold on to GOAT praise on Veach unless its clear a) the team gets routine on-field production from the front half of their draft picks every year or b) they find figurative diamonds in the rough from the lower rounds/UDFAs that become legit stars every so often.

[Sassy Squatch]

Welcome change to see we're the ones being proactive and getting our cornerstone players locked while the rest of the NFL sits with their thunbs up their asses.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Now lets be fair - Veach has just had to start spinning plates here.

He's had an MVP quarterback for damn near free over the last 2 seasons. That's a crutch that has allowed him to do the things he's done with Watkins and has allowed him the missfire on Hitchens. It's allowed him to get in a straight up bidding war with the Texans and just keep going until Mathieu signed.

Moreover, he's still in the 'lean' years of Clark's deal and even Jones/Mahomes.

From a cap standpoint, he's actually had a pretty easy go of it. He's had some guys here that are willing to play for less (Schwartz, Kelce) because they love the organization. And he had a weird situation with Hill that allowed him to get a significant discount there as well.

I think there's a good basis to say that in the future he'll demonstrate strong cap management skills, but I have a hard time saying at this point that he HAS. He's been a fortunate benefactor of having a head coach that people love playing for and simultaneously hasn't been forced to make any truly difficult 'cap casualty' decisions. Those decisions will come soon enough.

That's when we'll see just how good a cap manager he is. To date we've seen a GM that can/will be aggressive in utilizing his cap when he has a free MVP on his roster who affords him that ability. We'll see if he can still maintain that level of excellence when he has to tighten the belt a bit in the coming years.

Excellent post!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

Started rough but the conventional wisdom is you couldn't get away with top dollar contracts going to two WRs, a TE, a multi-role NT/DT and forge a record breaking deal for an almost indisputable #1 QB and Veach has managed to do that for a few seasons going forward.

Mahomes is good enough to gloss over many holes on the roster so it's not a big concern, but I'm going to hold on to GOAT praise on Veach unless its clear a) the team gets routine on-field production from the front half of their draft picks every year or b) they find figurative diamonds in the rough from the lower rounds/UDFAs that become legit stars every so often.

The draft separates the good from the great.

Hill, Kelce, Jones, Schwartz and yes even Fisher are key players here who he inherited. And Hill, Kelce and Schwartz are going to get HoF consideration when all is said and done. We sure are quick to gloss over that.

The bar from his predecessor in that regard is pretty damn high. If this team isn't going to atrophy on his watch, it's going to be because he was able to bring in guys like say George Kittle in the 3rd round. And maybe he's done something like that with Hardman - a big time 'heat check' pick when easier bets like McLaurin were on the board. That may be a serious home-run for him before all is said and done.

Grabbing Thornhill instead of 'safe' pick at a position of need like Winovich and then piece-mealing the LDE spot together a bit was a risky gamble that worked out great (though the Thornhill pick specifically was almost universally lauded).

He clearly prefers swinging for the fences in the draft so if enough of those land, he'll continue to cycle in great players. But THAT'S the bar - great players. Because he inherited a few of those guys upon taking over and in the next handful of years, he'll need to replace 'em.

Will he do that? Time will tell. Hard to write that book just yet.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Excellent post!

Yeah it was a good post and although I don't like him DJ did a great job there.

I like Veach but man he came into one hell of a great situation that most GMs in the NFL could only dream about. It's hard to compare him to say a GM taking over for Cardinals or Dolphins or some shit team like that.

So far though I like what Veach has done here.