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Ty Cobb is second now
Baseball Integrates Leaderboards
Major League Baseball officially updated its statistics leaderboard yesterday to include 2,300 qualifying men who played in the Negro Leagues between 1920 and 1948. The integration incorporates findings from a three-year research process initiated after MLB first recognized the Negro Leagues as major leagues in December 2020. The update reshapes long-standing leaderboards, with legendary power hitter and Hall of Fame catcher Josh Gibson now recognized as the all-time leader in career batting average with a .372 mark, passing prior leader, Ty Cobb. Lifetime numbers from MLB players reflecting their time in the Negro Leagues were also recognized, including those of Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, and Satchel Paige. See a rundown of leaderboard changes here. https://www.mlb.com/news/stats-leade...ro-leagues-mlb Tacit bans in the major leagues forced Black players to create their own leagues in the first half of the 20th century. Jackie Robinson broke the sport's racial barrier when he made his debut with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947 |
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#46 | |
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Quote:
And then they even chose an arbitrary cutoff of 1948. Hank Aaron played briefly for a Negro League team in the 50s but those stats aren't included. It was two different levels of ball. Bill James calculated the Negro Leagues to be at AA-AAA level. Folks rag on the white players of the time for not facing all the best talent but then say hey the Negro Leaguers are easily as good despite facing at best 1/5 of the best talent of the era. Baseball Fever has a great thread on the topic: https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum...rd-books/page2
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I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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#47 |
SNAP THE ****ING BALL!!!
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The obvious difference being the Negro Leagues weren't the ones reducing the talent pool.
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#48 | |
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That doesn't change the fact they were still playing a shallower pool. You can't criticize Babe Ruth for facing a smaller pool while ignoring it for Gibson.
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I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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#49 |
My work speaks for itself!!!
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Ichiro says "hmmmmm......"
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#50 |
Fight, build, win!
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I have a question as I don't have any idea about it. When did Latin America start playing baseball? Should MLB start digging through those statistics?
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"The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy." |
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#51 | |
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#52 |
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This just seems like they're revising history for the sake of looking good in certain people's eyes. I doubt they're doing it for the right reasons, but whatever. It probably should have been done a long time ago, though.
All that said, I wonder how the players of the old Negro League would honestly feel about this. If I was in their positions, I wouldn't want the stats merged because I wouldn't want people to forget the true past of what I had to deal with, but hey, I'm just a 39 year old white guy. I definitely get a kick out of the rage I'm seeing on social media, just as bad as the Butker situation but from the other end of the spectrum. Just don't get all the outrage over sports, it's supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it for reasons like this, I don't see the point of being a fan. |
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#53 |
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It is also statistically inconsistent.
As for career leaderboards, the current standard for career MLB leaders is 5,000 at-bats and 2,000 innings pitched, which roughly equates to 10 full qualifying seasons (5,020 at-bats and 1,620 innings). Therefore, for Negro Leagues players, this standard has been set at 1,800 at-bats and 600 innings -- roughly the equivalent of 10 seasons’ worth of 60-game seasons." Lefty O'Doul played 970 games and had 3264 at-bats. Hit .349 for his career. Nowhere on the new leaderboards while players with few games are there.
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I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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#54 |
SNAP THE ****ING BALL!!!
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I can see that. But I'm not criticizing Ruth since, AFAIK, he wasn't in any way responsible for the situation. But neither was Gibson. If the baseball leagues of the time wanted to protect the legacy of their great players, they probably shouldn't have excluded people that would have been legitimate competitors.
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#55 | |
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Quote:
__________________
I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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#56 |
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That’s based on what though? Without giving African American players the same opportunity as white MLB players there is no way to say that with certainty.
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#57 | |
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Negro League history is as celebrated as it's ever been with the players being included this year on MLB The Show, the podcast Black Diamonds on Sirius XM which is done by the outstanding Bob Kendrick, the All-Star Game of retired Black players at Cooperstown last week, and the MLB game they are playing at Rickwood Field in Birmingham, Alabama, next month. Compared to pre-Buck O'Neil on Ken Burns' Baseball, the exposure is light years ahead. |
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#58 | |
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The initiative was launched in summer 2020. Draw your own conclusions on why it was decided. At this point, they need to add the National Association and the Japanese Leagues. They opened the dam. The Union League should never have been included. But again, the 1969 committee was creating a baseball encyclopedia and their main criteria was available data. People don't realize how important the 1969 MacMillan encyclopedia was. It changed the game and directly assisted in hall of fame inductions for several players. Now all that data is available in one Google search!
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I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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#59 | |
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Like Satchel Paige, he was a guy who played year-round, making money in barnstorming tours and Caribbean winter leagues. https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/dihigo-martin |
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#60 | |
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Based on after integration the high water mark for African-American players in the MLB was around 27%. We don't know for certain but we can take a reasonable guess. Baseball Fever has done some great research on this topic. One of my favorite baseball websites.
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I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason "Be my brother or I’ll kill you." Nicolas Chamfort Sébastien-Roch, on the French Revolutionary principle of fraternity "Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere." GK Chesterton "It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." FAREWELL ADDRESS, 1796 |
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