Let's talk about the Cleveland Browns

[TLO]

Week 1.

Chiefs vs Browns.

Talk about it here.

[eastsidedawg]

Originally Posted by PattyFlakes

Our mistake… Baker is definitely superior to Mahomes based on 8 games in 2020. Really showed in that playoff game where Mahomes put up better stats while not even playing the whole game.

You guys are so defensive it was in response to a guy saying baker didnt improve by the end of the year .... well sorry he did

[PattyFlakes]

Originally Posted by eastsidedawg

You guys are so defensive it was in response to a guy saying baker didnt improve by the end of the year .... well sorry he did

Years of battered fan syndrome has made me defensive. I do actually agree with you that Baker looked better towards the end of last season, having competent coaching for the first time in his career actually helped him.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by PattyFlakes

Y I do actually agree with you that Baker looked better towards the end of last season, having competent coaching for the first time in his career actually helped him.

And this is just part of the point. When you consider the fact that Baker had to deal with Hue Jackson, Gregg Williams, and Freddie Kitchens right off the bat, he probably actually regressed in several areas before Stefanski ever got the nod in CLE. And then just to top everything else off, they have to try and install a brand-new offense in the middle of the pandemic, so no real offseason/OTAs and whatever. Essentially this is the first year that Baker has had any kind of stability at GM, HC or OC since entering the NFL.

[PattyFlakes]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

And this is just part of the point. When you consider the fact that Baker had to deal with Hue Jackson, Gregg Williams, and Freddie Kitchens right off the bat, he probably actually regressed in several areas before Stefanski ever got the nod in CLE. And then just to top everything else off, they have to try and install a brand-new offense in the middle of the pandemic, so no real offseason/OTAs and whatever. Essentially this is the first year that Baker has had any kind of stability at GM, HC or OC since entering the NFL.

I have never been in the Baker sucks camp. I think he’s an upper half of the league QB. I’ll definitely credit him for improving his game in spite of those circumstances

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Mayfield's numbers against legit defenses have generally been bad. Mediocre overall. And what would they be without the best offensive line in the NFL, best running game in the NFL, and very good receivers?

You can blame coaching turnover, but a lot of QBs would still kill it with that personnel.

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Originally Posted by eastsidedawg

Don't kill the messenger... they are just stats. Not saying baker is better than mahomes

I mean to be brutally honest, you posted an infograph comparing Mahomes and Baker on a Chiefs fan board.

What kind of reaction were you expecting?

[eastsidedawg]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Mayfield's numbers against legit defenses have generally been bad. Mediocre overall. And what would they be without the best offensive line in the NFL, best running game in the NFL, and very good receivers?

You can blame coaching turnover, but a lot of QBs would still kill it with that personnel.

I mean they play the ravens and steelers the #2 and #3 ranked defenses in the league and put up 42 and 48 points at the end of last year. It kind of sucks they can't play den, lv and the chargers twice a year they were all bottom 10 in the league in defenses last year.

As far as personnel I think they are good but I doubt many would do much better I posted the all 22 of the cheifs game. It's not like baker was missing open recievers. They were blanketed due to lack of speed. He made tight window after tight window throw all game.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by eastsidedawg

You did it to yourself

Good luck in the Super Bowl.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by eastsidedawg

I mean they play the ravens and steelers the #2 and #3 ranked defenses in the league and put up 42 and 48 points at the end of last year. It kind of sucks they can't play den, lv and the chargers twice a year they were all bottom 10 in the league in defenses last year.

As far as personnel I think they are good but I doubt many would do much better I posted the all 22 of the cheifs game. It's not like baker was missing open recievers. They were blanketed due to lack of speed. He made tight window after tight window throw all game.

Fair enough, but how did the Browns fare when playing the Chiefs? You can argue schedule all you want, but two things...

1. Your team also didn't have to face TB or NO, or Buffalo either. Plus your Browns benefitted from playing CIN twice and the NFC East who had exactly ZERO teams that finished with a winning record.

2. When it came down to it and Cleveland did get a chance to face the defending AFC and SB Champs, they got beat and that was without the Chiefs having the best player in football for the majority of the second half.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Fair enough, but how did the Browns fare when playing the Chiefs? You can argue schedule all you want, but two things...

1. Your team also didn't have to face TB or NO, or Buffalo either. Plus your Browns benefitted from playing CIN twice and the NFC East who had exactly ZERO teams that finished with a winning record.

2. When it came down to it and Cleveland did get a chance to face the defending AFC and SB Champs, they got beat and that was without the Chiefs having the best player in football for the majority of the second half.

And don’t forget that the Chiefs beat the living shit out of the Ravens, who swept the Browns (including a 30+ point blowout).

[Halfcan]

Brown's suck.

[Rainbarrel]

Browns week is just a Tim Couch away!

[InChiefsHeaven]

Curb stomp these ****ing pretenders...get it done.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by eastsidedawg

I mean they play the ravens and steelers the #2 and #3 ranked defenses in the league and put up 42 and 48 points at the end of last year. It kind of sucks they can't play den, lv and the chargers twice a year they were all bottom 10 in the league in defenses last year.

As far as personnel I think they are good but I doubt many would do much better I posted the all 22 of the cheifs game. It's not like baker was missing open recievers. They were blanketed due to lack of speed. He made tight window after tight window throw all game.

Why are you bringing up KC's division competition? Mahomes and the Chiefs have nothing to prove offensively. They've done nothing but consistently put up yards and points under Mahomes, plus score in the clutch.

That weak Raiders' D held Baker's offense to a whopping 6 points btw. Houston held them to 10, and they scored 6 and 7 in games vs Baltimore and Pitt. When you have the best OL and running game in the NFL and are held to point totals like that, you know your QB didn't get it done.

Mayfield’s consistently been near the bottom in passing yards. Even with his supposedly awesome second half, he was 18th in passing yards last year with an average TD total.

Not sure that a few high scores later in the season puts him in elite territory, especially when they needed 5 turnovers deep in Pittsburgh territory to do it.

Btw, I've seen a lot of Browns fans claim that Mayfield was under constant pressure vs KC, which tells me the kind of protection he's used to seeing. If Mahomes had traded places, it would've been the best protection he'd had since the first couple games of the year.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Why are you bringing up KC's division competition? Mahomes and the Chiefs have nothing to prove offensively. They've done nothing but consistently put up yards and points under Mahomes, plus score in the clutch.

That weak Raiders' D held Baker's offense to a whopping 6 points btw. Houston held them to 10, and they scored 6 and 7 in games vs Baltimore and Pitt. When you have the best OL and running game in the NFL and are held to point totals like that, you know your QB didn't get it done.

Mayfield has a losing record overall and he's consistently been near the bottom in passing yards. Even with his supposedly awesome second half, he was 18th in passing yards last year with an average TD total.

Not sure that a few high scores later in the season puts him in elite territory, especially when they needed 5 turnovers deep in Pittsburgh territory to do it.

Btw, I've seen a lot of Browns fans claim that Mayfield was under constant pressure vs KC, which tells me the kind of protection he's used to seeing. If Mahomes had traded places, it would've been the best protection he'd had since the first couple games of the year.

No.

Mayfield overall has a winning record as a starter (23-22). PFR is your friend.

And only one season with a HC/OC that actually was a real NFL HC/OC. And yet somehow, in spite of his obvious lack of ability (according to you) he managed to throw for 75 TDs. Do you actually watch these games or what?

Now the question of whether Baker is elite is a bit early, IMO. Does he have the physical talent? Obviously. The mental toughness? No doubt.

But everything else is up in the air. Bottom line, we'll see. But at least get your facts straight.