Football Lamar Jackson wasn't, isn't, and never will be better than Patrick Mahomes - Page 38

Wallcrawler · 10:50 AM

This "Lamar Jackson is in the same league as Mahomes" nonsense on every football related show I see needs to stop.

Lamar Jackson, on the biggest stage, has now shit down his leg in both opportunities. Lamar is a player who has to have everything around him working perfectly to have success. Put him down 2 scores and ask him to carry the team, he cannot answer the bell.

There's a big difference between a running quarterback, and a quarterback who can run. Lamar Jackson and The Ravens ran 88 plays and put up 12 points.

Jackson attempted 59 passes, only threw one touchdown, but also threw two picks and lost a fumble. 12 points on 59 pass attempts should tell you all you need to know about Lamar as a QB when the lights are the brightest.

Nobody would bat an eye if before the game, soneone told us Pat would put the ball up 59 times. Matter of fact, id be pretty excited to see how many points and yards he would put up in that span of plays.

When things got bad for both QBs, you saw the odds on favorite to win the MVP this year get visible frustrated, press, and ultimately fold. He was nowhere to be seen trying to work out what was happening, rallying his team, he simply pouted on the sideline as his team fell further behind.

The reigning MVP had literally no quit. Its one thing to say after the fact, that we had faith all along, its quite another for that to be true.

Down 24, think about that for a moment. 24. Mahomes is captured, in that moment on the sideline saying we have everything we want. Everyones already counted us the **** out, so go do something special.

Then, to walk the walk after talking the talk, leading the team to 7 straight touchdowns and 8 scoring drives, throwing 5 touchdown passes, and displaying a fiery emotion that if you dont feel anything when you see this kid going nuts after a huge play, call the coroner, because youre already dead.

The two qbs could not be further apart. Jackson cannot hold Mahomes jock when it comes to putting the team on his back.

Lamar should consider signing with KC as a running back. Its the only way barring injury to Mahomes, that hes ever getting a ring.

Mahomes is the MVP. Its not even close. Lamar is a running back executing the halfback pass play about 20-25 times a game.

Jacksons first two years have ended with dud playoff performances.

Mahomes first two years as a starter sees his team hosting back to back AFC title games for a frachise that in its entire history never hosted a single one before he arrived.

htismaqe · 09-09-2022, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

And he gotten into the playoffs 4 times, and lost 3 of them.

Still not relevant. There's a dozen guys making more than him that haven't even been to the playoffs.

Lamar Jackson is going to get paid. He isn't worth it but it's gonna happen.

**Bearcat** · 09-09-2022, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That doesn't really matter. Watson, Dak, Cousins, there's tons of guys in the top 10 in salary that don't have playoff victories on their resumes.

Kyler Murray... one appearance, right? One bad loss, I'm assuming a career postseason QB rating of like 10.

Hammock Parties · 09-09-2022, 04:07 PM

Lamar is a bad volume passer. His record as a starter in games he has thrown 28+ passes is 10-12. In games with 27 or less he is 28-3. In a pass 1st league it doesn’t bode well if he has to start over elsewhere. Take the $ and keep plugging with the team that built around him.

He is under .500 when throwing 28+ and nearly undefeated when he throws fewer than that. His TD to INT #s when throwing 28+ is 23 - 22. When 27 or less it skyrockets to 52 - 14 He's better when he runs and picks his spots in the pass game.

You don't pay him 50m.

PunkinDrublic · 09-09-2022, 04:09 PM

I think it’s a credit to the Ravens OC that the Ravens have been as successful in the regular season with Lamar at QB. Otherwise he’d have a similar career as RG III.

htismaqe · 09-09-2022, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Lamar is a bad volume passer. His record as a starter in games he has thrown 28+ passes is 10-12. In games with 27 or less he is 28-3. In a pass 1st league it doesn’t bode well if he has to start over elsewhere. Take the $ and keep plugging with the team that built around him.

He is under .500 when throwing 28+ and nearly undefeated when he throws fewer than that. His TD to INT #s when throwing 28+ is 23 - 22. When 27 or less it skyrockets to 52 - 14 He's better when he runs and picks his spots in the pass game.

You don't pay him 50m.

Somebody will though. He sells tickets.

Hammock Parties · 09-09-2022, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Somebody will though. He sells tickets.

he'll go somewhere else and get hurt most likely

Coach · 09-09-2022, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

None of those guys have been an NFL MVP. None of those guys have even consistently MADE the playoffs, let alone win.

I'm not saying that Lamar Jackson should get paid. I don't think he should even play QB.

But that's not how NFL salaries work. Guys get paid all the time that don't deserve it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Still not relevant. There's a dozen guys making more than him that haven't even been to the playoffs.

Lamar Jackson is going to get paid. He isn't worth it but it's gonna happen.

I get what you're saying, and I agree with your thinking. I was just simply saying if I was an NFL GM, I wouldn't pay Jackson that much coin to begin with, because his passing is average to below average. His true value is his legs, which helps Lamar. However, when he loses that value (his legs, no different than an RB) and potentially getting injured, then someone is going to be severely overpaying for an "average to below average" QB.

A similar case would be Robert Griffin III. Very electric on his legs but average passer. When he got injured, he wasn't the same anymore. Jackson so far has been lucky not to suffer a severe injury, but if he can't change his game, well, that's just a risk waiting to happen.

Just because he won an MVP, doesn't move the needle for me. He can get into the playoffs, nobody's questioning it, but his playoff record speaks for itself.

Case in point, in 4 of these playoff games, he only has one out of 4 that his completion % was over 60%. That was against Tennessee in 2021 with a 70.8%. All others were 48.3%, 52.5%, and 58.3%. He also has a 3 TD to 5 INT ratio.

I mean, sure it's easy to say it's just four games and we can't draw any conclusions on such a small sample size. But can you eliminate the four most important games a player has played when you're discussing paying him a shitload of $40+ million a year for the next six years? I don't think so, personally.

And the NFL salaries just sucks. You are right, there are guys out there that shouldn't be getting this much money. There are a lot of dumb owners and GM's out there.

DeathByArrows · 09-09-2022, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic

I think it’s a credit to the Ravens OC that the Ravens have been as successful in the regular season with Lamar at QB. Otherwise he’d have a similar career as RG III.

The problem with Baltimore is you have to build an entire defensive playbook to beat them, they're the only team that runs an offense like that and installing that mid-season is a nightmare. I also think top teams hold back in game planning because they don't want them to see some of the looks incase they meet in the post-season.

They aren't losing in the playoffs because they magically forget how to run the football or it's not a winning formula. Running the football is a key to success in the post-season, but teams load the box, stick a spy on Lamar and then dare him to throw 1-on-1 and he's incapable of that, and they don't have enough pass plays on the call sheet when the run game get's stuffed.

TLO · 09-09-2022, 04:38 PM

This thread is aging well.

htismaqe · 09-09-2022, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByArrows

The problem with Baltimore is you have to build an entire defensive playbook to beat them, they're the only team that runs an offense like that and installing that mid-season is a nightmare. I also think top teams hold back in game planning because they don't want them to see some of the looks incase they meet in the post-season.

They aren't losing in the playoffs because they magically forget how to run the football or it's not a winning formula. Running the football is a key to success in the post-season, but teams load the box, stick a spy on Lamar and then dare him to throw 1-on-1 and he's incapable of that, and they don't have enough pass plays on the call sheet when the run game get's stuffed.

Great point.

tredadda · 09-09-2022, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

I see DeathByArrows took my thunder, but he is correct.

Those guys you listed can actually, you know, throw the football, in almost all levels of the field.

Jackson can't do shit outside of the hashmarks. This has been established, and until he can actually hit outside the hashmarks in a consistent manner, he isn't shit.

Edited: Plus a 16 TD / 13 INT ratio isn't steller either. And going from 2019 to 2021, his numbers has gone down in most categories while his INT's has increased.

Do any of them have a MVP? I don’t disagree with your statement at all, but realistically that MVP will carry far more weight in contract negotiations than it probably should.

htismaqe · 09-09-2022, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

Do any of them have a MVP? I don’t disagree with your statement at all, but realistically that MVP will carry far more weight in contract negotiations than it probably should.

Yep

FloridaMan88 · 09-09-2022, 06:54 PM

Lamar has basically the same career completion % as Kordell Stewart (55.9 vs 55.8).

MarkDavis'Haircut · 09-09-2022, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByArrows

The problem with Baltimore is you have to build an entire defensive playbook to beat them, they're the only team that runs an offense like that and installing that mid-season is a nightmare. I also think top teams hold back in game planning because they don't want them to see some of the looks incase they meet in the post-season.

They aren't losing in the playoffs because they magically forget how to run the football or it's not a winning formula. Running the football is a key to success in the post-season, but teams load the box, stick a spy on Lamar and then dare him to throw 1-on-1 and he's incapable of that, and they don't have enough pass plays on the call sheet when the run game get's stuffed.

Essentially the triple option team of the NFL.

smithandrew051 · 09-09-2022, 06:59 PM

I offer my services as QB for exactly 1/3 of however much Lamar wants. DMs are open.

01-16-2020, 09:14 AM
Wallcrawler How tall is this thing? Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ground 0 for enema of US. Casino cash: $3712912	Lamar Jackson wasn't, isn't, and never will be better than Patrick Mahomes This "Lamar Jackson is in the same league as Mahomes" nonsense on every football related show I see needs to stop. Lamar Jackson, on the biggest stage, has now shit down his leg in both opportunities. Lamar is a player who has to have everything around him working perfectly to have success. Put him down 2 scores and ask him to carry the team, he cannot answer the bell. There's a big difference between a running quarterback, and a quarterback who can run. Lamar Jackson and The Ravens ran 88 plays and put up 12 points. Jackson attempted 59 passes, only threw one touchdown, but also threw two picks and lost a fumble. 12 points on 59 pass attempts should tell you all you need to know about Lamar as a QB when the lights are the brightest. Nobody would bat an eye if before the game, soneone told us Pat would put the ball up 59 times. Matter of fact, id be pretty excited to see how many points and yards he would put up in that span of plays. When things got bad for both QBs, you saw the odds on favorite to win the MVP this year get visible frustrated, press, and ultimately fold. He was nowhere to be seen trying to work out what was happening, rallying his team, he simply pouted on the sideline as his team fell further behind. The reigning MVP had literally no quit. Its one thing to say after the fact, that we had faith all along, its quite another for that to be true. Down 24, think about that for a moment. 24. Mahomes is captured, in that moment on the sideline saying we have everything we want. Everyones already counted us the **** out, so go do something special. Then, to walk the walk after talking the talk, leading the team to 7 straight touchdowns and 8 scoring drives, throwing 5 touchdown passes, and displaying a fiery emotion that if you dont feel anything when you see this kid going nuts after a huge play, call the coroner, because youre already dead. The two qbs could not be further apart. Jackson cannot hold Mahomes jock when it comes to putting the team on his back. Lamar should consider signing with KC as a running back. Its the only way barring injury to Mahomes, that hes ever getting a ring. Mahomes is the MVP. Its not even close. Lamar is a running back executing the halfback pass play about 20-25 times a game. Jacksons first two years have ended with dud playoff performances. Mahomes first two years as a starter sees his team hosting back to back AFC title games for a frachise that in its entire history never hosted a single one before he arrived. Last edited by Wallcrawler; 01-16-2020 at 10:50 AM..
Posts: 7,131	1 0

09-09-2022, 04:07 PM	#558
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $2760478	Lamar is a bad volume passer. His record as a starter in games he has thrown 28+ passes is 10-12. In games with 27 or less he is 28-3. In a pass 1st league it doesn’t bode well if he has to start over elsewhere. Take the $ and keep plugging with the team that built around him. He is under .500 when throwing 28+ and nearly undefeated when he throws fewer than that. His TD to INT #s when throwing 28+ is 23 - 22. When 27 or less it skyrockets to 52 - 14 He's better when he runs and picks his spots in the pass game. You don't pay him 50m. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 288,722

09-09-2022, 04:09 PM	#559
PunkinDrublic Stay down bitch! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Plano, TX Casino cash: $5480670	I think it’s a credit to the Ravens OC that the Ravens have been as successful in the regular season with Lamar at QB. Otherwise he’d have a similar career as RG III. __________________ Disappointing my parents since 1976
Posts: 9,362

09-09-2022, 04:38 PM	#564
TLO Life is changing.. Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NW Missouri Casino cash: $-630000	This thread is aging well.
Posts: 41,254

09-09-2022, 06:54 PM	#568
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $1212906	Lamar has basically the same career completion % as Kordell Stewart (55.9 vs 55.8).
Posts: 43,840

09-09-2022, 06:59 PM	#570
smithandrew051 I Like The Kansas City Chiefs Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Shawnee, KS Casino cash: $1284400	I offer my services as QB for exactly 1/3 of however much Lamar wants. DMs are open. __________________ My 2024 Adopt a Chief: Leo Chenal Holy Hat!
Posts: 28,554