Science Space Exploration megathread - Page 362

**DaFace** · 07:17 AM

Since a number of cool things are happening in space exploration these days, we'll widen the scope of this thread a smidge. Conversation about all things space exploration are welcome, whether it be from NASA, SpaceX, ULA, Blue Origin, or anyone else. Chances are most of the discussion will still be about SpaceX since they love to make things public and fun, but nothing's off limits. I'll eventually get around to modifying the OP to include resources for other companies too, but in the meantime, feel free to post any cool stuff you run across.

Lists of Upcoming Missions

Spoiler!

How to Watch a Live Launch

Spoiler!

Where to Learn More

Spoiler!

Glossary

Spoiler!

Space discussions tend to get a little bogged down in jargon, so here's a list of terms you might encounter. (Others, please let me know of others that should be added.)

ASDS - Autonomous Spaceport Droneship - The "barges" that they sometimes land rockets on.
Dragon - The cone-shaped capsule that sits at the top of the rocket for ISS-bound launches that holds the cargo (or, in the future, humans).
F9 - Falcon 9, the name of the rocket itself.
FH - Falcon Heavy, the three-booster version.
GTO - Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit, a type of orbit that will eventually result in the satellite orbiting the earth as it turns so that it seems to be in the same spot from the ground (such as DirecTV or Dish satellites). These types of launches are particularly challenging because they require a lot of power to get them into the right orbit, leaving very little fuel left for landing.
HIF - Horizontal Integration Facility - the building near the launch pad where they put all of the pieces of the rocket together before rolling it out to the pad.
ISS - The International Space Station
JRTI - Just Read The Instructions, the name of the "barge" that they land on for west-coast launches.
LEO - Low Earth Orbit, a fairly low orbit shared by many satellites and ISS. These launches usually require less power to achieve the proper orbit, so the first stage can often be landed back on land rather than on a drone ship.
LZ1 - Landing Zone 1, basically a big open slab of concrete at Cape Canaveral where the first stage will attempt to land (for some launches).
NET - No Earlier Than, basically the date they're hoping to launch, but rocket launches have a tendency of getting delayed.
OCISLY - Of Course I Still Love You, the name of the "barge" that they land on for east-coast launches.
RTLS - Return to Landing Site, a mission where the first stage comes back and lands at LZ1.
Starship - SpaceX's next-generation rocket (and spacecraft) that will hopefully one day take us to Mars. Starship is the "second stage" that will carry cargo or people, but also refers to the whole system. (It's confusing, but think of it like the Space Shuttle, which was both the shuttle itself and the entire launch system.)
Super Heavy - The giant booster that will carry Starship to space.

seamonster · 05-07-2024, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThrobProng

Loads of experience didn't prevent Boeing from committing major **** ups while designing and building airplanes, then trying to minimize and cover up their mistakes after the fact.

I wouldn't trust Boeing to design a child's drone at this point.

Did all of Boeing's engineers vanish into the rapture? Are they shuffling in tail pipe installers from SpiritAirlines to do the math for their rocket launches? LOL. The general aviation side of Boeing has as much to do with their rocket programs as the web developers at "X" do with with Elons 13+ billion dollar subsidized rocket company.

GeorgeZimZam · 05-07-2024, 03:01 PM

T-12 Minutes for S30 static fire 🚀

ThrobProng · 05-07-2024, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster

Did all of Boeing's engineers vanish into the rapture? Are they shuffling in tail pipe installers from SpiritAirlines to do the math for their rocket launches? LOL. The general aviation side of Boeing has as much to do with their rocket programs as the web developers at "X" do with with Elons 13+ billion dollar subsidized rocket company.

It's great to have to research the inner workings of a company to see if your life is in the hands of competent people, or the type of people who can't install a ****ing door correctly.

GeorgeZimZam · 05-07-2024, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeZimZam

T-12 Minutes for S30 static fire 🚀

never mind, hearing "scrubbed"

**DaFace** · 05-07-2024, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster

What the hell does this have to do with anything? Boeing's been launching vehicles and running a massive space operation since before I was alive on planet earth. They've accumulated hundreds of years of combined engineering knowledge (more than Europe and China). To act like they can't launch a manned rocket into space because of budget over-runs is crazy. BTW, elements of Boeing space were involved with the ****ing Apollo missions. Stop reading headlines.

You're aware that the most recent two-year delay was because their last test launch test had multiple failures, right?

**DaFace** · 05-07-2024, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster

Did all of Boeing's engineers vanish into the rapture?

Figuratively? Yes. They've been losing older engineers to retirement and younger engineers to New Space companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, and RocketLab.

seamonster · 05-07-2024, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You're aware that the most recent two-year delay was because their last test launch test had multiple failures, right?

From the outside it just looks like they had a reading that wasn't nominal and the engineers scrubbed the mission. That's not a "failure" that's somebody doing their job. And if I'm tasked with flying out on one of these things that's what I'd want to see. Musk may or may not have allowed that. Musk is in love with himself and his public image and if I'm a hard nosed NASA astronaut that scares me more than a buzzing oxygen valve. And you also have to look at the culture that SpaceX comes out of. Tesla is heavily subsidized by the government and they're allowed to ship out an auto-pilot feature that caused 700+ crashes and plenty of death and destruction. Boeing aviation had TWO crashes and ate shit, had public hearings and lost considerable stock value. Which side is going to be more likely to listen to engineers and which would go "agile" and tolerate risk? It's probably going to be the side that gets cute with industry terms like "rapid unplanned disassembly".

GeorgeZimZam · 05-08-2024, 09:40 AM

Ship 30 static fire attempt in roughly an hour.

MagicHef · 05-08-2024, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamonster

From the outside it just looks like they had a reading that wasn't nominal and the engineers scrubbed the mission. That's not a "failure" that's somebody doing their job. And if I'm tasked with flying out on one of these things that's what I'd want to see. Musk may or may not have allowed that. Musk is in love with himself and his public image and if I'm a hard nosed NASA astronaut that scares me more than a buzzing oxygen valve. And you also have to look at the culture that SpaceX comes out of. Tesla is heavily subsidized by the government and they're allowed to ship out an auto-pilot feature that caused 700+ crashes and plenty of death and destruction. Boeing aviation had TWO crashes and ate shit, had public hearings and lost considerable stock value. Which side is going to be more likely to listen to engineers and which would go "agile" and tolerate risk? It's probably going to be the side that gets cute with industry terms like "rapid unplanned disassembly".

Musk doesn't get to personally decide if a mission scrubs or not, and SpaceX has scrubbed plenty of launches. In fact, SpaceX just scrubbed a hotfire yesterday.

Also, Boeing Starliner failed its first launch because the clock in the control program was wrong, causing the engines to fire early and use up their fuel too quickly, meaning that it could not reach its intended orbit. How the control program was allowed to go to launch without being fully tested is beyond me.

If I had to choose a program to put me into space, I'd pick the one with the proven successful program.

**DaFace** · 05-08-2024, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef

Musk doesn't get to personally decide if a mission scrubs or not, and SpaceX has scrubbed plenty of launches. In fact, SpaceX just scrubbed a hotfire yesterday.

Also, Boeing Starliner failed its first launch because the clock in the control program was wrong, causing the engines to fire early and use up their fuel too quickly, meaning that it could not reach its intended orbit. How the control program was allowed to go to launch without being fully tested is beyond me.

If I had to choose a program to put me into space, I'd pick the one with the proven successful program.

While I give Elon credit for setting ambitious visions for the future, the reality is that a ton of SpaceX's success comes from their operational excellence, and I give most of the credit for that to Gwynne rather than Elon. I largely discredit anyone's opinion about SpaceX if they don't understand her role in all of this. (I'm confident that Tesla would be in much better shape if they had a "Gwynne" of their own.)

More broadly, it's pretty clear that seamonster doesn't actually understand this stuff, so the debate isn't really worth the effort.

**DaFace** · 05-08-2024, 11:44 AM

For the record:

#Starliner launch update:

NASA, @BoeingSpace and @ULALaunch are now targeting no earlier than 6:16pm ET May 17 for the launch of the agency's Boeing Crew Flight Test to @Space_Station, following a valve replacement on ULA's Atlas V rocket: https://t.co/NBSVcFQrnB pic.twitter.com/ayQGXFSkKW
— NASA Commercial Crew (@Commercial_Crew) May 8, 2024

GeorgeZimZam · 05-14-2024, 01:58 PM

From flying customer satellites, cargo and astronauts to orbit and deploying additional @Starlink satellites to connect millions of people around the world, it’s been an extraordinary year so far and we're not even halfway done yet!
— Gwynne Shotwell (@Gwynne_Shotwell) May 14, 2024

On pace for ~135 Falcon launches in 2024. 🚀 🤯

Go SpaceX! Go Falcon!

GeorgeZimZam · 05-20-2024, 10:03 AM

**DaFace** · 05-21-2024, 10:12 PM

You have to wonder if this thing will ever make it to regular service. It seems cursed.

Here’s the latest from NASA on Starliner. The path forward is unclear for the Crew Flight Test, and there’s a real possibility of a longer delay. pic.twitter.com/wHl2KeRCSS
— Stephen Clark (@StephenClark1) May 22, 2024

GeorgeZimZam · 05-24-2024, 08:58 AM

The fourth flight test of Starship could launch as soon as June 5, pending regulatory approvalhttps://t.co/XjreI7nQOp pic.twitter.com/2tv2s1yJ5F
— SpaceX (@SpaceX) May 24, 2024

UPCOMING LAUNCH
STARSHIP'S FOURTH FLIGHT TEST

The fourth flight test of Starship could launch as soon as June 5, pending regulatory approval.

A live webcast of the flight test will begin about 30 minutes before liftoff, which you can watch here and on X @SpaceX. The launch window will open as early as 7 a.m. CT. As is the case with all developmental testing, the schedule is dynamic and likely to change, so be sure to stay tuned to our X account for updates.

Starship’s third flight test made tremendous strides towards a future of rapidly reliable reusable rockets. The test completed several exciting firsts, including the first Starship reentry from space, the first ever opening and closing of Starship’s payload door in space, and a successful propellant transfer demonstration. This last test provided valuable data for eventual ship-to-ship propellant transfers that will enable missions like returning astronauts to the Moon under NASA’s Artemis program.

The fourth flight test turns our focus from achieving orbit to demonstrating the ability to return and reuse Starship and Super Heavy. The primary objectives will be executing a landing burn and soft splashdown in the Gulf of Mexico with the Super Heavy booster, and achieving a controlled entry of Starship.

To accomplish this, several software and hardware upgrades have been made to increase overall reliability and address lessons learned from Flight 3. The SpaceX team will also implement operational changes, including the jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage following boostback to reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight.

Flight 4 will fly a similar trajectory as the previous flight test, with Starship targeted to splashdown in the Indian Ocean. This flight path does not require a deorbit burn for reentry, maximizing public safety while still providing the opportunity to meet our primary objective of a controlled Starship reentry.

The fourth flight of Starship will aim to bring us closer to the rapidly reusable future on the horizon. We’re continuing to rapidly develop Starship, putting flight hardware in a flight environment to learn as quickly as possible as we build a fully reusable transportation system designed to carry crew and cargo to Earth orbit, the Moon, Mars and beyond.

Spoiler!

LFG!!!

06-01-2014, 09:40 AM
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-13101	Space Exploration megathread Since a number of cool things are happening in space exploration these days, we'll widen the scope of this thread a smidge. Conversation about all things space exploration are welcome, whether it be from NASA, SpaceX, ULA, Blue Origin, or anyone else. Chances are most of the discussion will still be about SpaceX since they love to make things public and fun, but nothing's off limits. I'll eventually get around to modifying the OP to include resources for other companies too, but in the meantime, feel free to post any cool stuff you run across. Lists of Upcoming Missions Spoiler! General lists: https://nextspaceflight.com/ http://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ SpaceX specific list: https://spacexnow.com/upcoming.php How to Watch a Live Launch Spoiler! SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/launches/ ULA: https://www.youtube.com/user/UnitedLaunchAlliance RocketLab: https://www.youtube.com/user/RocketLabNZ NASATV will also cover some launches (primarily ISS resupply missions): https://www.youtube.com/user/NASAtelevision Where to Learn More Spoiler! Some cool pics... https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/ https://www.instagram.com/spacex/?hl=en Twitter feed is usually interesing... https://twitter.com/SpaceX https://twitter.com/elonmusk The SpaceX sub is a great source of info... https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/wiki/index And for a more forum-style discussion board... http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php#c17 And there are plenty of YouTube channels with great content... Joe Scott - Lost of "future" discussion. Some about rockets and space. Much that goes beyond. Scott Manley - Super smart dude (engineer) who reviews a lot of major events in space exploration. Frazer Cain (Universe Today) - Podcast-style videos that go in-depth into space topics. Tim Dodd (Everyday Astronaut) - A "random dude" who got really into space (particularly SpaceX). He's a great resource for simple explanations of this stuff, as well as live hosting launches. USLaunchReport - Lost of videos of the more mundane stuff (e.g., booster recovery operations). Not a ton of commentary. NASASpaceFlight - Live hosting of most launches including a ton of video of Starlink operations. Glossary Spoiler! Space discussions tend to get a little bogged down in jargon, so here's a list of terms you might encounter. (Others, please let me know of others that should be added.) ASDS - Autonomous Spaceport Droneship - The "barges" that they sometimes land rockets on. Dragon - The cone-shaped capsule that sits at the top of the rocket for ISS-bound launches that holds the cargo (or, in the future, humans). F9 - Falcon 9, the name of the rocket itself. FH - Falcon Heavy, the three-booster version. GTO - Geosynchronous Transfer Orbit, a type of orbit that will eventually result in the satellite orbiting the earth as it turns so that it seems to be in the same spot from the ground (such as DirecTV or Dish satellites). These types of launches are particularly challenging because they require a lot of power to get them into the right orbit, leaving very little fuel left for landing. HIF - Horizontal Integration Facility - the building near the launch pad where they put all of the pieces of the rocket together before rolling it out to the pad. ISS - The International Space Station JRTI - Just Read The Instructions, the name of the "barge" that they land on for west-coast launches. LEO - Low Earth Orbit, a fairly low orbit shared by many satellites and ISS. These launches usually require less power to achieve the proper orbit, so the first stage can often be landed back on land rather than on a drone ship. LZ1 - Landing Zone 1, basically a big open slab of concrete at Cape Canaveral where the first stage will attempt to land (for some launches). NET - No Earlier Than, basically the date they're hoping to launch, but rocket launches have a tendency of getting delayed. OCISLY - Of Course I Still Love You, the name of the "barge" that they land on for east-coast launches. RTLS - Return to Landing Site, a mission where the first stage comes back and lands at LZ1. Starship - SpaceX's next-generation rocket (and spacecraft) that will hopefully one day take us to Mars. Starship is the "second stage" that will carry cargo or people, but also refers to the whole system. (It's confusing, but think of it like the Space Shuttle, which was both the shuttle itself and the entire launch system.) Super Heavy - The giant booster that will carry Starship to space. Last edited by DaFace; 10-13-2024 at 07:17 AM..
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05-07-2024, 03:01 PM	#5417
GeorgeZimZam Repeal the 19th Amendment Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: KC > ATX > RGV Casino cash: $3170400	T-12 Minutes for S30 static fire 🚀 __________________
Posts: 1,677

05-08-2024, 09:40 AM	#5423
GeorgeZimZam Repeal the 19th Amendment Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: KC > ATX > RGV Casino cash: $3170400	Ship 30 static fire attempt in roughly an hour.
Posts: 1,677

05-08-2024, 11:44 AM	#5426
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-13101	For the record: #Starliner launch update: NASA, @BoeingSpace and @ULALaunch are now targeting no earlier than 6:16pm ET May 17 for the launch of the agency's Boeing Crew Flight Test to @Space_Station, following a valve replacement on ULA's Atlas V rocket: https://t.co/NBSVcFQrnB pic.twitter.com/ayQGXFSkKW — NASA Commercial Crew (@Commercial_Crew) May 8, 2024
Posts: 52,572

05-14-2024, 01:58 PM	#5427
GeorgeZimZam Repeal the 19th Amendment Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: KC > ATX > RGV Casino cash: $3170400	From flying customer satellites, cargo and astronauts to orbit and deploying additional @Starlink satellites to connect millions of people around the world, it’s been an extraordinary year so far and we're not even halfway done yet! — Gwynne Shotwell (@Gwynne_Shotwell) May 14, 2024 On pace for ~135 Falcon launches in 2024. 🚀 🤯 *Go SpaceX! Go Falcon!* __________________
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05-20-2024, 10:03 AM	#5428
GeorgeZimZam Repeal the 19th Amendment Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: KC > ATX > RGV Casino cash: $3170400	nm Last edited by GeorgeZimZam; 09-07-2024 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: can't be doxing myself now
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05-21-2024, 10:12 PM	#5429
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-13101	You have to wonder if this thing will ever make it to regular service. It seems cursed. Here’s the latest from NASA on Starliner. The path forward is unclear for the Crew Flight Test, and there’s a real possibility of a longer delay. pic.twitter.com/wHl2KeRCSS — Stephen Clark (@StephenClark1) May 22, 2024
Posts: 52,572

05-24-2024, 08:58 AM	#5430
GeorgeZimZam Repeal the 19th Amendment Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: KC > ATX > RGV Casino cash: $3170400	The fourth flight test of Starship could launch as soon as June 5, pending regulatory approvalhttps://t.co/XjreI7nQOp pic.twitter.com/2tv2s1yJ5F — SpaceX (@SpaceX) May 24, 2024 UPCOMING LAUNCH STARSHIP'S FOURTH FLIGHT TEST The fourth flight test of Starship could launch as soon as June 5, pending regulatory approval. A live webcast of the flight test will begin about 30 minutes before liftoff, which you can watch here and on X @SpaceX. The launch window will open as early as 7 a.m. CT. As is the case with all developmental testing, the schedule is dynamic and likely to change, so be sure to stay tuned to our X account for updates. Starship’s third flight test made tremendous strides towards a future of rapidly reliable reusable rockets. The test completed several exciting firsts, including the first Starship reentry from space, the first ever opening and closing of Starship’s payload door in space, and a successful propellant transfer demonstration. This last test provided valuable data for eventual ship-to-ship propellant transfers that will enable missions like returning astronauts to the Moon under NASA’s Artemis program. The fourth flight test turns our focus from achieving orbit to demonstrating the ability to return and reuse Starship and Super Heavy. The primary objectives will be executing a landing burn and soft splashdown in the Gulf of Mexico with the Super Heavy booster, and achieving a controlled entry of Starship. To accomplish this, several software and hardware upgrades have been made to increase overall reliability and address lessons learned from Flight 3. The SpaceX team will also implement operational changes, including the jettison of the Super Heavy’s hot-stage following boostback to reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight. Flight 4 will fly a similar trajectory as the previous flight test, with Starship targeted to splashdown in the Indian Ocean. This flight path does not require a deorbit burn for reentry, maximizing public safety while still providing the opportunity to meet our primary objective of a controlled Starship reentry. The fourth flight of Starship will aim to bring us closer to the rapidly reusable future on the horizon. We’re continuing to rapidly develop Starship, putting flight hardware in a flight environment to learn as quickly as possible as we build a fully reusable transportation system designed to carry crew and cargo to Earth orbit, the Moon, Mars and beyond. Spoiler! COUNTDOWN All times approximate HR/MIN/SEC EVENT 01:15:00 SpaceX Flight Director conducts poll and verifies GO for propellant load 00:49:00 Ship fuel (liquid methane) load underway 00:47:00 Ship LOX (liquid oxygen) load underway 00:40:00 Booster fuel load underway 00:37:00 Booster LOX load underway 00:19:40 Raptor begins engine chill on booster and ship 00:03:20 Ship propellant load complete 00:02:50 Booster propellant load complete 00:00:30 SpaceX flight director verifies GO for launch 00:00:10 Flame deflector activation 00:00:03 Raptor ignition sequence begins 00:00:00 Excitement guaranteed FLIGHT TEST TIMELINE All Times Approximate HR/MIN/SEC EVENT 00:00:02 Liftoff 00:01:02 Max Q (moment of peak mechanical stress on the rocket) 00:02:41 Super Heavy MECO (most engines cut off) 00:02:45 Hot-staging (Starship Raptor ignition and stage separation) 00:02:49 Super Heavy boostback burn startup 00:03:52 Super Heavy boostback burn shutdown 00:03:54 Hot-stage jettison 00:06:39 Super Heavy is transonic 00:06:43 Super Heavy landing burn startup 00:07:04 Super Heavy landing burn shutdown 00:08:23 Starship engine cutoff 00:47:25 Starship entry 01:03:11 Starship is transonic 01:04:01 Starship is subsonic 01:05:38 Landing flip 01:05:43 Landing burn 01:05:48 An exciting landing! LFG!!! __________________
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