|
11-06-2022, 01:12 PM | #53716 | |
Special Teams ACE!!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Where the hell is SNR
Casino cash: $515208
|
Quote:
Ok, so respond to my previous post. Len Dawson kicked his equine ass in a 14 game season. |
|
Posts: 92,047
|
1 0 |
11-06-2022, 01:22 PM | #53717 | |
Banned!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201
Casino cash: $1520194
|
Quote:
__________________
Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting. |
|
Posts: 46,908
|
11-06-2022, 02:16 PM | #53718 | |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Lawrence, KS
Casino cash: $1280400
|
Quote:
Also funny to just ignore the worst game. That game doesn't happen to a player who isn't drop-happy. I'm sure if Jeudy had a 6 TD game, he'd call it an outlier and say it doesn't represent him accurately, right? |
|
Posts: 16,326
|
11-06-2022, 02:35 PM | #53719 | |
Banned!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201
Casino cash: $1520194
|
Quote:
Identifying/drafting Mahomes? Difficult/Beach's method Trading insane capital/paying $250 million for what Fat Rus has done in the past? I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to do something like that.
__________________
Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting. |
|
Posts: 46,908
|
2 0 |
11-06-2022, 02:45 PM | #53720 |
Three-Pat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado Springs
Casino cash: $15053
|
|
Posts: 18,247
|
11-06-2022, 04:47 PM | #53721 | |
Bolton gonna knock you out
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: They Freed Kartel!!
Casino cash: $952394
|
Quote:
__________________
2024 Adopt a Chief : Trent McDuffie |
|
Posts: 20,988
|
2 0 |
11-06-2022, 05:02 PM | #53722 |
Seize life. Be an ermine.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: My house
Casino cash: $1458491
VARSITY
|
So if we ignore Jeudy's bad plays, his good plays are slightly above average. How would he compare if we eliminated every other player's bad plays?
__________________
Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history. |
Posts: 143,131
|
11-06-2022, 06:52 PM | #53723 |
Andy Reid Supporter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Casino cash: $409611
|
You know it’s killing Knowmo that the Seahawks are leading their division at 6-3 and the Vikings are 7-1
__________________
Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley |
Posts: 48,311
|
11-07-2022, 10:07 AM | #53724 | |
#triggering
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tejas
Casino cash: $2337229
|
Quote:
Around 2004-2005, that's when you see things really jump and fairly consistently you have a dozen QBs surpassing that 25-26 TD mark. What changed? The rules about how you can hit/attack receivers and QBs... If you think I'm arguing that no QB ever had a prolific season in the 60s-80s like now, you're mistaken. It was far from the norm like it is now. There were 9 QBs with more than 33 TD passes last year.
__________________
|
|
Posts: 30,653
|
11-07-2022, 10:19 AM | #53725 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Texas
Casino cash: $412500
|
Quote:
|
|
Posts: 2,240
|
11-07-2022, 10:45 AM | #53726 | |
#triggering
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tejas
Casino cash: $2337229
|
Quote:
And again, you just have to look at where he finished at retirement against all QBs that had ever played the game. Elway was in the top 1-5 of every major category when he retired at the end of 1998. QBs started to explode with regularity in the early 2000's, that's just a fact. In his era, Jim Kelly played in a more prolific offense... not like Marino or Moon, but even Jim's #s were not that much greater than Elway. Many people view all QBs in all eras as equal in the framework of how the game was played and that's flawed. Yes, there were exceptions to this comment, but they were few and far between. Elway has still started in the 2nd most Super Bowl games all time (for QBs). Reeves had them poorly set up for success leading up to the 3 in the 80s, that is well documented. Most wins by a Starting QB ... Brady (247), Favre (188), P Manning (187), Brees (172), Roethlisberger (166), Elway (149) Top 6 as of now... was #1 at retirement. Favre's first season was 1991, 7 years before Elway retired. The other four started after 1998.
__________________
Last edited by Mile High Mania; 11-07-2022 at 11:04 AM.. |
|
Posts: 30,653
|
11-07-2022, 11:40 AM | #53727 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Texas
Casino cash: $412500
|
Quote:
Elway's TD numbers each season: 1983 - 7 TDs 1984 - 18 TDs, 11th in league (Marino 48, Krieg 32) 1985 - 22 TDs, tied for 7th in league (Marino 30, 4 w/ 27) 1986 - 19 TDs, tied for 9th in league (Marino 44, O'Brien 25) 1987 - 19 TDs, tied for 8th in league (Montana 31, Marino 26) 1988 - 17 TDs, tied for 11th in league (Everett 31, 2 w/ 28) 1989 - 18 TDs, tied for 12th in league (Everett 29, Esiason 28) 1990 - 15 TDs, tied for 18th in league (Moon 33, Cunningham 30) 1991 - 13 TDs, tied for 11th in league (Kelly 33, Rypien 28) 1992 - 10 TDs, 22nd in league (Young 25, Marino 24) 1993 - 25 TDs, 2nd in league (Young 29) 1994 - 16 TDs, tied for 12th in league (Young 35, Favre 33) 1995 - 26 TDs, tied for 6th in league (Favre 38, Moon 33) 1996 - 26 TDs, 4th in league (Favre 39, Testaverde 33) 1997 - 27 TDs, 4th in league (Favre 35, George 29) 1998 - 22 TDs, 9th in league (Young 36, Cunningham 34) As you can see, Elway's TD pass numbers are not great. It looks like his average finish over his career is around 10th place or worse. Except for the one season where he finished 2nd with 25, his TD totals were never comparable to the leaders. Let me reiterate that I think Elway deserves to be in the hall of fame. I am not saying he was undeserving. However, his TD pass numbers were mostly pedestrian numbers on a year-by-year basis. He clearly brought more to the table than just his TD numbers, but I don't think anyone can look at the numbers above and argue that they clearly merit the hall of fame. |
|
Posts: 2,240
|
1 0 |
11-07-2022, 11:40 AM | #53728 | |
MVP
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Lawrence, KS
Casino cash: $1280400
|
Quote:
His TD/INT ratio wasn't that good. He had several seasons with more INTs than TDs, and several more in which he had the same of each or maybe 1 more TD than INT. Also, if you're going to highlight the number of SB appearances, you need to factor the era into that conversation too. Do you think he'd have appeared in that many Super Bowls if he were facing Allen or Mahomes rather than Bernie Kosar? |
|
Posts: 16,326
|
11-07-2022, 11:51 AM | #53729 | |
#triggering
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tejas
Casino cash: $2337229
|
Quote:
And, again at the time of his retirement, having played 16 seasons, Elway had 300 career regular season passing TDs. As of his retirement in 1998, Elway ranked 3rd behind Marino and Tarkenton. So, despite your view on his career TD totals, #3 all time at retirement after the 1998 season is a pretty sweet place to be. Since then, following along with the narrative of the league becoming incredibly more passer friendly and protective of QBs, Elway has fallen from #3 to 13 with Brady, Brees, P Manning, Favre, Rodgers, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Ryan and Stafford taking the leap above 300. Think about it, as of the start of the 1999 season - only 3 QBs had thrown more than 300 career regular season TDs. In the last 23.5 seasons, there are 8 QBs over 400 career TDs (one being Marino who was above Elway and another being Favre, in the league as of 1991). 3 guys in the history of the NFL from the merger through 1998 cleared 300... since then, it's taken off like a rocket. The game has advanced, rules are different and the style of play is completely different. It's a process of the league evolving, but again - that's why you just can't compare players (not just QBs) against their peers that played decades apart.
__________________
Last edited by Mile High Mania; 11-07-2022 at 12:17 PM.. |
|
Posts: 30,653
|
11-07-2022, 12:14 PM | #53730 | |
#triggering
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Tejas
Casino cash: $2337229
|
Quote:
And, I'm not sugar coating or cherry picking stats. I'm addressing the one that was brought up - TDs. The differences in the eras do matter when you're comparing careers.
__________________
|
|
Posts: 30,653
|
|
|