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[ROYC75]

Discussion: All things Broncos.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

And I’m saying they obviously thought he was stellar. That or they just willingly allowed themselves to be fleeced in the trade, and fleeced again on the contract.

That's what I dont get...they had two years worth of game tape to watch.

Certainly they would have noticed the drop off in Wilson's play after teams adapted mid-way through 2020...and it never returned...along with his declining rushing yards.

Had he recaptured whatever C19 mojo he found to start the pandemic year..then I might understand.

Donks have a habit of "wishful thinking" when signing veteran QBs..like just by virtue of having a horse on their helmet, they will become something they arent.

I pointed this out with Keesum...and backed it up with numbers. He was exactly what his stats said he was...

I'm doubling down on there was a coordinated NFL agenda along with Walton buying the team and the media...it just went completely sideways.

There is no other reason to give up that much for Wilson...while in the process of selling.

I will not be surprised, at all, if they still get that 7th seed...

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by BlackOp

That's what I dont get...they had two years worth of game tape to watch.

Certainly they would have noticed the drop off in Wilson's play after teams adapted mid-way through 2020...and it never returned...along with his declining rushing yards.

Had he recaptured whatever C19 mojo he found to start the pandemic year..then I might understand.

Donks have a habit of "wishful thinking" when signing veteran QBs..like just by virtue of having a horse on their helmet, they will become something they arent.

I pointed this out with Keesum...and backed it up with numbers. He was exactly what his stats said he was...

Every QB they’ve signed in recent years has been worse in Denver than elsewhere. Yet we’re supposed to believe they’ve had a loaded roster.

Of course no one can present any objective articles to support that. Surprise.

And I’m willing to bet that Lock would have more success in Seattle if he got his chance. I remember Denver fans mocking him relentlessly for not winning the starting job over Geno.

[BlackOp]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Of course no one can present any objective articles to support that. Surprise.

I was calling out that shit left and right since they signed him...that none of the inflated media fluff was backed by statistical truth.

4th best OL in the NFL per ESPN article...when everything on paper said they were bottom 3rd.

Best offensive weapons Wilson has ever had...when they essentially mirrored Seattle's 2021 output.

That Bridgewater ranked 18th best and Wilson was 19th in 2021...and so on and so on.

ALL of what I said is playing out...the only two things left to see is if they break the losing steak against KC, at home on national TV...and if they make the 7th seed.

All their injuries/horrible start might have put the NFL's marketing agenda on ice...they tried by giving them the easiest starting schedule in the entire league.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Every QB they’ve signed in recent years has been worse in Denver than elsewhere.

Ok, so this has been a narrative around here.

Which QBs are you referring to specifically? These 3 are really the only guys you could be talking about...

Case Keenum had the 1 good season the year prior to joining Denver. He was terrible the 4 years prior to the MIN good year and he's been terrible since leaving Denver.

Joe Flacco spent 11 years in BAL before joining Denver in 2019. His last good year in BAL was 2014. Between 2015 and 2018 in BAL, Flacco led them to > 8 wins only one time and he's done nothing since leaving Denver.

Teddy Bridgewater has some injury history and unfortunately for him, prior to joining Denver in 2021, he spent his first 6 seasons with 4 teams. 2015 in MIN was really his only strong year and since leaving Denver, he got hurt and is a backup. In 2019 as a backup to Brees, he did go 5-0, but that was a strong team and it was more about that than what Teddy really did.

Are these the 3 QBs you're speaking of... have I missed anyone?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Ok, so this has been a narrative around here.

Which QBs are you referring to specifically? These 3 are really the only guys you could be talking about...

Case Keenum had the 1 good season the year prior to joining Denver. He was terrible the 4 years prior to the MIN good year and he's been terrible since leaving Denver.

Joe Flacco spent 11 years in BAL before joining Denver in 2019. His last good year in BAL was 2014. Between 2015 and 2018 in BAL, Flacco led them to > 8 wins only one time and he's done nothing since leaving Denver.

Teddy Bridgewater has some injury history and unfortunately for him, prior to joining Denver in 2021, he spent his first 6 seasons with 4 teams. 2015 in MIN was really his only strong year and since leaving Denver, he got hurt and is a backup. In 2019 as a backup to Brees, he did go 5-0, but that was a strong team and it was more about that than what Teddy really did.

Are these the 3 QBs you're speaking of... have I missed anyone?

Well, you missed the guy who's currently being horribly outplayed by his former backup Geno.

I'm not saying that these guys have been great at every other stop. I'm saying they've all tasted much more success somewhere else. Didn't you think that Flacco was completely done three years ago when he was sacked 9 times by KC in Mile High and got blown out by Matt Moore? He looked like he had absolutely nothing left that year. Yet, somehow, a three years older version of him looked far better in a weak Jets offense this year. And he obviously looked better at any given point in Baltimore.

Keenum was 11-3 the year before joining the Broncos and was 2nd in voting for Comeback POY. And it's not like he was on a team with filthy talent. Yeah, his record sucked in Washington the year after he left Denver, but that was an impossible situation. Remember...I'm not saying that Denver had the worst roster in the league. There obviously were/are worse. But according to people like Q Joe, there have been roughly 27 worse. The last few years, he hasn't had a chance to be a full-time starter, but he's 2-0 and played fairly well in those games (including beating Denver head to head with 3rd string RBs and other key players missing).

A couple years before going to Denver, Bridgewater went 5-0 in New Orleans. 9/2 TD/int ratio. A few years earlier he went 11-5 for an average Minnesota franchise and went to the Pro Bowl.

We have no comparison for Lock, but he was a pretty highly touted 2nd round pick who didn't come close to living up to expectations. And reports indicated that the competition between he and Geno was close. Before Lock had to miss time in preseason due to Covid, he was actually running the 1st team offense in practice and was going to start vs the Bears.

It's not like I'm saying that any of these guys are great. I'm saying that an average/mediocre QB can do fine in a decent situation, and these guys have proven it. So why can't they do fine with a "loaded" Denver roster?

Fans like Q Joe claim that Denver has a talent advantage over KC at 16 of 22 positions. AND that some of their backups are better than the Chiefs' starters. So why is it that KC looked better with Matt Moore a few years ago than Denver has at any point since 2015? He won 2 of 3 games, beat a really solid Minnesota team and his only loss was a close game vs GB when he went toe to toe with Rodgers. Henne's also looked pretty decent when he's gotten a chance. Even helped them win a playoff game. And we're talking about spot starts. They didn't have the advantage of getting starter reps in training camp. Do you think either of those guys would look as good in Denver? And then there was Mahomes' first career start. Green rookie goes on the road surrounded by names that most people haven't heard before or since, and moved up and down the field vs Denver's starting D. They even pulled him early because it seemed to be so easily in hand. Then put him back in to lead the game-winning drive when the 3rd stringer blew it.

Every year I see Denver fans saying that the roster is stacked and they're just a QB away. And the narrative is that they just happen to keep finding the worst QB in the NFL every year. THEN they make a mega deal to land a guy who was considered by many to be a HOFer....and HE looks like one of the worst QBs in the league and has actually made their offense worse. While journeyman Geno looks like a star with his old weapons.

I'm not sure why you're in denial about this. Q Joe is delusional, I get it. But you seem more rational.

Obviously coaching is part of it too. HC and QB will always be by far the two most important boxes to check, and they haven't been able to check either one in quite awhile.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Well, you missed the guy who's currently being horribly outplayed by his former backup Geno.

I'm not saying that these guys have been great at every other stop. I'm saying they've all tasted much more success somewhere else. Didn't you think that Flacco was completely done three years ago when he was sacked 9 times by KC in Mile High and got blown out by Matt Moore? He looked like he had absolutely nothing left that year. Yet, somehow, a three years older version of him looked far better in a weak Jets offense this year. And he obviously looked better at any given point in Baltimore.

Keenum was 11-3 the year before joining the Broncos and was 2nd in voting for Comeback POY. And it's not like he was on a team with filthy talent. Yeah, his record sucked in Washington the year after he left Denver, but that was an impossible situation. Remember...I'm not saying that Denver had the worst roster in the league. There obviously were/are worse. But according to people like Q Joe, there have been roughly 27 worse. The last few years, he hasn't had a chance to be a full-time starter, but he's 2-0 and played fairly well in those games (including beating Denver head to head with 3rd string RBs and other key players missing).

A couple years before going to Denver, Bridgewater went 5-0 in New Orleans. 9/2 TD/int ratio. A few years earlier he went 11-5 for an average Minnesota franchise and went to the Pro Bowl.

We have no comparison for Lock, but he was a pretty highly touted 2nd round pick who didn't come close to living up to expectations. And reports indicated that the competition between he and Geno was close. Before Lock had to miss time in preseason due to Covid, he was actually running the 1st team offense in practice and was going to start vs the Bears.

It's not like I'm saying that any of these guys are great. I'm saying that an average/mediocre QB can do fine in a decent situation, and these guys have proven it. So why can't they do fine with a "loaded" Denver roster?

Fans like Q Joe claim that Denver has a talent advantage over KC at 16 of 22 positions. AND that some of their backups are better than the Chiefs' starters. So why is it that KC looked better with Matt Moore a few years ago than Denver has at any point since 2015? He won 2 of 3 games, beat a really solid Minnesota team and his only loss was a close game vs GB when he went toe to toe with Rodgers. Henne's also looked pretty decent when he's gotten a chance. Even helped them win a playoff game. And we're talking about spot starts. They didn't have the advantage of getting starter reps in training camp. Do you think either of those guys would look as good in Denver? And then there was Mahomes' first career start. Green rookie goes on the road surrounded by names that most people haven't heard before or since, and moved up and down the field vs Denver's starting D. They even pulled him early because it seemed to be so easily in hand. Then put him back in to lead the game-winning drive when the 3rd stringer blew it.

Every year I see Denver fans saying that the roster is stacked and they're just a QB away. And the narrative is that they just happen to keep finding the worst QB in the NFL every year. THEN they make a mega deal to land a guy who was considered by many to be a HOFer....and HE looks like one of the worst QBs in the league and has actually made their offense worse. While journeyman Geno looks like a star with his old weapons.

I'm not sure why you're in denial about this. Q Joe is delusional, I get it. But you seem more rational.

Obviously coaching is part of it too. HC and QB will always be by far the two most important boxes to check, and they haven't been able to check either one in quite awhile.

No, I wasn't neglecting Wilson. However, the consensus here was that he was done before the trade.

Flacco was in the same boat, doing nothing of merit in his final 3-4 years.

Keenum and Bridgewater were JAGS with 1 good season prior to coming to Denver and both are nothing now.

The narrative you're playing makes it sound as if consistently good QBs are coming to Denver, falling apart and then doing well when they leave. It's quite a reach actually. They were spares when Denver brought them over and they whiffed on each. But, carry on with the narrative I suppose.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

No, I wasn't neglecting Wilson. However, the consensus here was that he was done before the trade.

Flacco was in the same boat, doing nothing of merit in his final 3-4 years.

Keenum and Bridgewater were JAGS with 1 good season prior to coming to Denver and both are nothing now.

The narrative you're playing makes it sound as if consistently good QBs are coming to Denver, falling apart and then doing well when they leave. It's quite a reach actually. They were spares when Denver brought them over and they whiffed on each. But, carry on with the narrative I suppose.

I've already said multiple times that I don't think any of them were great when they played in Denver. But Keenum did go 11-3 the year before and went to the conference championship, right? Meaning it is possible to win games with him? And the year after he left, they won 5 fewer games and missed the playoffs, so it's not like he had a loaded roster. The teams QBed by Keenum and Bridgewater posted the best records of any Vikings teams in the last dozen years. And Keenum's team was the only one to reach the conference title game.

Whether you admit it or not, my take makes a lot more sense than what you're arguing. You're basically saying that everybody knew these guys were shit and Elway signed them anyway. And paid Keenum a few million less than Rodgers was making at the time. You're also saying that it was known that Wilson wasn't a great option, yet the trade and contract are those you'd offer a freaking MVP caliber QB. I mean.....come on.

The consensus here wasn't that Wilson was "done," it was that his athleticism was declining and he wasn't elite. Not that he'd lead them to the lowest-ranked offense in the NFL.

Is it not fair to say that Denver got less than expected from EVERY single one of these guys, including Lock?

[TEX]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I've already said multiple times that I don't think any of them were great when they played in Denver. But Keenum did go 11-3 the year before and went to the conference championship, right? Meaning it is possible to win games with him? And the year after he left, they won 5 fewer games and missed the playoffs, so it's not like he had a loaded roster. The teams QBed by Keenum and Bridgewater posted the best records of any Vikings teams in the last dozen years. And Keenum's team was the only one to reach the conference title game.

Whether you admit it or not, my take makes a lot more sense than what you're arguing. You're basically saying that everybody knew these guys were shit and Elway signed them anyway. And paid Keenum a few million less than Rodgers was making at the time. You're also saying that it was known that Wilson wasn't a great option, yet the trade and contract are those you'd offer a freaking MVP caliber QB. I mean.....come on.

The consensus here wasn't that Wilson was "done," it was that his athleticism was declining and he wasn't elite. Not that he'd lead them to the lowest-ranked offense in the NFL.

Is it not fair to say that Denver got less than expected from EVERY single one of these guys, including Lock?

Very fair. And that's putting it nicely.

[Quesadilla Joe]

Having a new offensive coordinator 6 out of the last 7 years is a major reason why our QB’s have struggled here. They just need time together.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe

Having a new offensive coordinator 6 out of the last 7 years is a major reason why our QB’s have struggled here. They just need time together.

Too bad they're going to have another new one next year then, right?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe

Having a new offensive coordinator 6 out of the last 7 years is a major reason why our QB’s have struggled here. They just need time together.

Weird how other good rosters seem to overcome that.

What was your record prediction for this year again?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

What was your record prediction for this year again?

[TomBarndtsTwin]

Originally Posted by Quesadilla Joe

Having a new offensive coordinator 6 out of the last 7 years is a major reason why our QB’s have struggled here. They just need time together.

While I'll grant you that certainly doesn't help the situation, these are the list of starting QB's Denver has used since Manning retired:

Trevor Simien, Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien, Kendall Hinton, Teddy Bridgewater, Russell Wilson.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe, just maybe, there is a bigger reason as to why all these Denver QB's have struggled there . . . . . . . .

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

While I'll grant you that certainly doesn't help the situation, these are the list of starting QB's Denver has used since Manning retired:

Trevor Simien, Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien, Kendall Hinton, Teddy Bridgewater, Russell Wilson.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe, just maybe, there is a bigger reason as to why all these Denver QB's have struggled there . . . . . . . .

If they had a great roster and/or a good HC, plenty of them could have done a decent job. Alex Smith, Chase Daniel, Matt Moore and Chad Henne have all looked decent to good under Reid in KC. All would have looked like trash in Denver.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

While I'll grant you that certainly doesn't help the situation, these are the list of starting QB's Denver has used since Manning retired:

Trevor Simien, Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien, Kendall Hinton, Teddy Bridgewater, Russell Wilson.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe, just maybe, there is a bigger reason as to why all these Denver QB's have struggled there . . . . . . . .

These were injury subs and 1 Covid sub (which was bullshit)

Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien, Kendall Hinton, and BO left when Manning retired. Looking for a QB is hard.