***Official Car and Gearhead Thread***

[BigRedChief]

Seems like we need one on here to talk cars, mods and the coolness of your or their car.

Interested? Chime in

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

They're okay, but not top-tier sports coupes. Don't get me wrong, I love Mustangs and Camaros, have for over 35 years. The first car that I bought with my own money was a Camaro, and I've owned a Mustang as well.

But while they go fast in a straight line, none of them turn all that well, mostly due to how much they weigh which is to say two tons (IMO). They all have great styling, but the interior fit and trim levels aren't that great either.

The handling in the Mustang I test-drove just last year was improved over what I drove a few years ago, so I like to think Ford has the Mustang headed in the right direction, but it's not agile or athletic. Not compared to a 4-series BMW or a Porsche Cayman. Compared to those coupes, the Mustang feels like it's half-baked; they should've fixed it up a bit more before sending it out the door.

And the interior for close to $50,000 . . . well, it's just ridiculous. It was acceptable in my Camaro circa 1986, when I paid $13,000, but not in a car that price-wise is competing with BMWs, Audis, and C-class Mercs. It looks cheap inside, and honestly I'd have a hard time convincing myself a Mustang or Camaro is really worth the money just looking at the interior.

Oh, sure the Mustang, and likewise probably the Camaro and the Challenger will blow the doors off those German coupes in a drag race to the eighth mile, but so what? I want a sports a coupe that turns really well almost more than I want a lot of power, because it's more likely that I can use that around where I live than the top speed of the thing. And I want it to look good both inside and out.

So these American offerings cover about half those bases or so. Wonder how old I'll be by the time they actually get it right.

Kinda figured that what you really meant was, "Why don't American manufactures use European philosophies" but didn't want to assume.

What you're really asking is, "why don't more American companies use V6 or Turbo 4-bangers in their sports cars?"

Porsche Caymans don't have backseats. It's a Roadster, not a Coupe.

BMW 4-Series coupes come in 2.0 4-Cyl and 3.0 V6 Configurations.

If you want an small-motor, light weight car that you can throw around corners, Ford addressed that with the 4cyl Turbo Mustang.

Your complaint isn't that Americans don't make awesome sport-coupes. Your complaint is that they don't put high performance, small displacement motors in their sports cars.

Their small displacement variants are treated more as economy cars to help with EPA issues.

Your BMW 4-series Coupe offers a 300HP V6 as its top engine choice, meanwhile, that's the economy version of a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

They're okay, but not top-tier sports coupes. Don't get me wrong, I love Mustangs and Camaros, have for over 35 years. The first car that I bought with my own money was a Camaro, and I've owned a Mustang as well.

But while they go fast in a straight line, none of them turn all that well, mostly due to how much they weigh which is to say two tons (IMO). They all have great styling, but the interior fit and trim levels aren't that great either.

The handling in the Mustang I test-drove just last year was improved over what I drove a few years ago, so I like to think Ford has the Mustang headed in the right direction, but it's not agile or athletic. Not compared to a 4-series BMW or a Porsche Cayman. Compared to those coupes, the Mustang feels like it's half-baked; they should've fixed it up a bit more before sending it out the door.

And the interior for close to $50,000 . . . well, it's just ridiculous. It was acceptable in my Camaro circa 1986, when I paid $13,000, but not in a car that price-wise is competing with BMWs, Audis, and C-class Mercs. It looks cheap inside, and honestly I'd have a hard time convincing myself a Mustang or Camaro is really worth the money just looking at the interior.

Oh, sure the Mustang, and likewise probably the Camaro and the Challenger will blow the doors off those German coupes in a drag race to the eighth mile, but so what? I want a sports a coupe that turns really well almost more than I want a lot of power, because it's more likely that I can use that around where I live than the top speed of the thing. And I want it to look good both inside and out.

So these American offerings cover about half those bases or so. Wonder how old I'll be by the time they actually get it right.

A ZL1 1LE Camaro cost about $70K and will outperform any other foreign car in that price range to 2x the cost from straight line to cornering.

Think about this, $70K beats these cars-

In addition to beating the normal ZL1's time, the 1LE managed to get around the 'Ring faster than performance cars like the Nissan GT-R, Ferrari 488 GTB, and previous-generation 911 GT2 RS. This thing is wildly quick.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ring-in-71604/

[ToxSocks]

BMW 430I Coupe: $45,000, 3,827lbs, 3.0L 300HP V6

Ford Mustang GT: $36,000, 3,705lbs, 5.0L 485HP V8

[backinblack]

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

I don't think you will have any shortage of challengers, camaros or mustangs if they quit production of them for decades.

I'm not worried about that, but just having the Camaro in production makes the Mustang better, the competition of both cars. Over the last decade both the Camaro and Mustang have taken turns being faster and more powerful than the other, just like back in the mid to late 60s. I look forward to the new offerings of Ford and Chevrolet, and think they need each other.

Camaro probably needs a complete overall, like the Mustang received in 2015. The current rumors suggest that won't happen though.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

A ZL1 1LE Camaro cost about $70K and will outperform any other foreign car in that price range to 2x the cost from straight line to cornering.

Think about this, $70K beats these cars-



https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ring-in-71604/

Yes, the Vette is a great sports car, and I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said above. But I did exclude the Corvette in my OP, as it's a 2-door 2-seat sports car, not a 2-door 4-seat sports coupe. Different type of car.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

A ZL1 1LE Camaro cost about $70K and will outperform any other foreign car in that price range to 2x the cost from straight line to cornering.

Think about this, $70K beats these cars-



https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ring-in-71604/

The idea that American sports cars dont handle well is a complete myth.

In comparison to smaller, lighter cars it may not feel as light and feathery. But that's more of a driving feel thing than anything else.

And quite frankly, i prefer heavier cars at higher speed freeway driving.

Lighter cars feel like they bounce and flow with the road. Heavier cars feel firmly planted, even at 100mph.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yes, the Vette is a great sports car, and I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said above. But I did exclude the Corvette in my OP, as it's a 2-door 2-seat sports car, not a 2-door 4-seat sports coupe. Different type of car.

But you included the Cayman, which is a 2-seater. The Porsche Cayman is a roadster more than anything. And the lightweight, tight handling is a feature of a roadster.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yes, the Vette is a great sports car, and I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said above. But I did exclude the Corvette in my OP, as it's a 2-door 2-seat sports car, not a 2-door 4-seat sports coupe. Different type of car.

I didnt say anything about a Vette.

[cooper barrett]

Hmmm Isn't this an American coupe? Even though the rear window does not go down you call them coupes. Aren't they sedans????













Cadillac was stupid not to put this on steroids and roll through 2023 but NO.. they dropped it.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

BMW 430I Coupe: $45,000, 3,827lbs, 3.0L 300HP V6

Ford Mustang GT: $36,000, 3,705lbs, 5.0L 485HP V8

Yes, but so what? I mean, again, I think it's great to go really fast, but a sports coupe should also handle well. And the 4-series BMW is simply a better handling car. And in the fit and finish department there's no comparison. As a complete car the BMW is just a much better overall sports coupe than the Mustang.

And before we get too far afield, my point is that there's really no good reason an American car builder can't make a really good sports coupe. It's not like they don't have the money or the technical capabilities. But it's like when I was in HS doing my homework, when I'd do the minimum effort to get a B. American car companies seem to be still operating as if they just want to get a B on their homework.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

But you included the Cayman, which is a 2-seater. The Porsche Cayman is a roadster more than anything. And the lightweight, tight handling is a feature of a roadster.

You're right, my bad. My brother had a Cayman, and I swear i thought the thing had 4 seats. Two very small back seats, but I thought they were there.

A roadster is a T-top or convertible by definition, IIRC. A hardtop version would be the coupe.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I didnt say anything about a Vette.

Misread that, my bad.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by cooper barrett

Hmmm Isn't this an American coupe? Even though the rear window does not go down you call them coupes. Aren't they sedans????













Cadillac was stupid not to put this on steroids and roll through 2023 but NO.. they dropped it.

By definition, a coupe is a 2-door 4-seat car, so yes this is a coupe. A sedan, by definition is a 4-door 4 seater.

And I don't have any experience with this Caddy. Which one is it?

[cooper barrett]

My 30 year old 500E (like it's sister the 300CE (coupe) 3200lb) are both heavy cars (3700Lbs) and at 100mph150mph are very secure on the roads. This car has be track proven to do 170MPH one the limiting device and chips were upgraded.

A new Z-28 Camaro weighs in at 3820lbs

A New Nissan GT-R weighs, wait for it, oh it's 3933lbs

Light and feathery my ass

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The idea that American sports cars dont handle well is a complete myth.

In comparison to smaller, lighter cars it may not feel as light and feathery. But that's more of a driving feel thing than anything else.

And quite frankly, i prefer heavier cars at higher speed freeway driving.

Lighter cars feel like they bounce and flow with the road. Heavier cars feel firmly planted, even at 100mph.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by cooper barrett

My 30 year old 500E (like it's sister the 300E 3000lb) are both heavy cars (3700Lbs) and at 150 are very secure on the roads. This car has be track proven to do 170MPH.

A new Z-28 Camaro weighs in at 3820lbs

A New Nissan GT-R weighs, wait for it, oh it's 3933lbs

Light and feathery my ass

Part of the weight problem with modern cars is the fact that they have to be saddled with so many safety features, including all the airbags, and that stuff just weighs a lot. And since we live in America, we just have to live with that fact.