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Old 04-29-2022, 06:44 PM  
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Last edited by Dante84; 04-29-2022 at 09:51 PM..
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:27 AM   #481
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The way for him to be a "true #1" is he's gonna have to just be smarter and savvier than every one else, because of his lack of elite physical traits. It can happen, has and will happen in the future.

It's just not as likely.

But really, who cares. Say he's a 700 yard 4 TD guy in a normal run of the mill offense. Wouldn't you say having Pat with Andy pulling the strings would add....couple hundred yards and a few more TD's?

You go out and put up 8-900 yards a year and 5 TD's and that's pretty ****ing valuable.

I don't see why he coudln't be a 1000 yard guy and 5 TD's.
If he can be Golden Tate....I'd take that every day. Dude was never a #1 WR but he was a damn good WR.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:41 AM   #482
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The way for him to be a "true #1" is he's gonna have to just be smarter and savvier than every one else, because of his lack of elite physical traits. It can happen, has and will happen in the future.

It's just not as likely.

But really, who cares. Say he's a 700 yard 4 TD guy in a normal run of the mill offense. Wouldn't you say having Pat with Andy pulling the strings would add....couple hundred yards and a few more TD's?

You go out and put up 8-900 yards a year and 5 TD's and that's pretty ****ing valuable.

I don't see why he coudln't be a 1000 yard guy and 5 TD's. AKA Emmanual Saunders.
I just don’t agree that there aren’t any elite traits.

His route running and ability to win off the snap is elite, especially when you consider that he’s relatively new to the position. Do understand how rare it is for a guy to be playing the position for so little time, yet his route running be that good?

His hands are ****ing huge and he catches everything.

His 10 yard split is elite.

He’s 21 years old, and he’s only been playing the position for 3 years. He’s nowhere near his ceiling yet and he’s already VERY good.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:46 AM   #483
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I just don’t agree that there aren’t elite traits.

His route running and ability to win off the snap is elite, especially when you consider that he’s new to the position. Do understand how rare it is for a guy to be playing the position for so little time, yet his route running be that good?

His hands are huge and he catches everything.

His 10 yard split is elite.
In terms of his physical status though they aren't.

They're all above the baseline needed to be successful. He's very advanced as a route runner, but it kinda gets into the fact that he has to use that to get open at that level which may be an issue. We will find out, but generally, when guys have to use fundamentals to win, once you bump them up a level, that makes it a tough transition.

That's my own interpretation of traits and physicality etc. It's not a career ender or anything, but usually guys that win with pure physicality have the ability to refine the route running at the highest level to gain that advantage. He already has that but doesn't quite have the elite physical traits.

Neither does Emmanual Saunders or (insert WR). It just tends to cap what you can be.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:50 AM   #484
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In terms of his physical status though they aren't.

They're all above the baseline needed to be successful. He's very advanced as a route runner, but it kinda gets into the fact that he has to use that to get open at that level which may be an issue. We will find out, but generally, when guys have to use fundamentals to win, once you bump them up a level, that makes it a tough transition.

That's my own interpretation of traits and physicality etc. It's not a career ender or anything, but usually guys that win with pure physicality have the ability to refine the route running at the highest level to gain that advantage. He already has that but doesn't quite have the elite physical traits.

Neither does Emmanual Saunders or (insert WR). It just tends to cap what you can be.
I don’t necessarily think he’s going to be an All-Pro, but I see no reason to think he can’t be a consistent 1,000 yard WR, and a high end WR2, maybe even a borderline WR1.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:52 AM   #485
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I don’t necessarily think he’s going to be an All-Pro, but I see no reason to think he can’t be a consistent 1,000 yard WR, and a high end WR2.
I don't really see why not, especially in this offense.

Again, not to put words in his mouth. But if that's what you are shooting for, I think DJ is saying you could have gotten that a little later in the draft and taken someone at maybe another spot who had more upside here.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:54 AM   #486
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I don't really see why not, especially in this offense.

Again, not to put words in his mouth. But if that's what you are shooting for, I think DJ is saying you could have gotten that a little later in the draft and taken someone at maybe another spot who had more upside here.
And I disagree.

He has more upside than you guys are giving him credit for.
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Old 05-03-2022, 10:56 AM   #487
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And I disagree.

He has more upside than you guys are giving him credit for.
With his physical stature, it's gonna have to be in a non traditional kind of way (Edelman, Welker etc) I think. I'm not he can consistently win outside but again, being a 2nd rounder and in this offense, I don't really care.

1,2 whatever. Get open and catch the ball. The rest will figure itself out.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:00 AM   #488
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With his physical stature, it's gonna have to be in a non traditional kind of way (Edelman, Welker etc) I think. I'm not he can consistently win outside but again, being a 2nd rounder and in this offense, I don't really care.

1,2 whatever. Get open and catch the ball. The rest will figure itself out.
He’s a little guy that plays much bigger. Maybe not like Tyreek, but with his ridiculously big hands and the way he can go up and get the football, and his ability to break tackles after the catch.

I’m telling you, you guys will be pleasantly surprised. I have no doubt on my mind.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:05 AM   #489
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If he turns into an 800-1000 yard receiver then this was a huge win
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:09 AM   #490
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I don't really see why not, especially in this offense.

Again, not to put words in his mouth. But if that's what you are shooting for, I think DJ is saying you could have gotten that a little later in the draft and taken someone at maybe another spot who had more upside here.
There's a balance between upside and a polished receiver who has the potential to contribute day 1. This wasn't the draft where rolling the dice on the Christian Watsons of the world was going to put the Chiefs in the best position for success.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:12 AM   #491
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There's a balance between upside and a polished receiver who has the potential to contribute day 1. This wasn't the draft where rolling the dice on the Christian Watsons of the world was going to put the Chiefs in the best position for success.
I'm curious as to why it wouldn't or shouldn't be?
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:12 AM   #492
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The way for him to be a "true #1" is he's gonna have to just be smarter and savvier than every one else, because of his lack of elite physical traits. It can happen, has and will happen in the future.

It's just not as likely.

But really, who cares. Say he's a 700 yard 4 TD guy in a normal run of the mill offense. Wouldn't you say having Pat with Andy pulling the strings would add....couple hundred yards and a few more TD's?

You go out and put up 8-900 yards a year and 5 TD's and that's pretty ****ing valuable.

I don't see why he coudln't be a 1000 yard guy and 5 TD's. AKA Emmanual Saunders.
DeSean Jackson, Doug Baldwin and Wes Welker were around his size and they were just fine. Same for Steve Smith.

The kid was not drafted to be a number 1 WR. He was drafted to be a weapon and even if it’s complimentary that’s fine. He’s going to be a nice weapon.

I think he’s gonna be what they hoped Hardman would be
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:15 AM   #493
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I'm curious as to why it wouldn't or shouldn't be?
Because our WR room has been depleted and we can't afford to miss on another earlier round pick in that department?
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:15 AM   #494
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DeSean Jackson, Doug Baldwin and Wes Welker were around his size and they were just fine. Same for Steve Smith.

The kid was not drafted to be a number 1 WR. He was drafted to be a weapon and even if it’s complimentary that’s fine. He’s going to be a nice weapon.

I think he’s gonna be what they hoped Hardman would be
AKA what Hardman actually is? You were arguing in the draft lounge against Hardman because he's just a gimmick weapon or whatever, now that's what we're advocating for.

Whats you issue with Hardman?

It's obviously not a size thing. Welker was a slot only player, Jackson was a 2 route guy. Steve Smith was the ultimate outlier.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:16 AM   #495
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