Let's talk about the 49ers (Super Bowl Edition)

[TLO]

Well Chiefs vs Packers is what I had hoped for, but that's not happening.

Let's talk about Chiefs vs 49ers here.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I’m ****ing rambling here but also to your Breeland point DJ, I think it’s notable that Mathieu is a huge difference maker in that area. He’s a roamer for this defense right now who somehow has the ability to take away multiple routes within one play. We’ve saw that in the last 2 games with these hi/lo concepts that he muddles up for the QB by bouncing around so much.

Even if Breeland loses that battle a few times, Mathieu very well may be waiting inside the hashes and could snatch the ball away on any given play.

A strong RPO game built on the back of early success running the ball could do a lot to minimize Mathieu's impact, though.

You can effectively option him out of the gameplan if you're smart about it. Granted, Mathieu's as clever a defender as you'll find so there will be times that he can trick Grapes into seeing something that isn't there (or not seeing something that is), but that's why I worry about the extra week.

Shanahan knows that Mathieu is a thing he'll need to worry about. And he'll operate accordingly.

[All22]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

And now to quote myself:

Four games. 89 carries. 337 yards. 3.8 YPR.

Now, none of those teams have the-two way weapons at TE and FB that San Francisco does. I expect the 49ers to be more successful. But the Chiefs will defend the run far better than the Packers or Vikings did.

Aaron Jones went off against the Chiefs D. Hiding it amongst Broncos games is intellectually dishonest.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Apparently Eric Fisher told media yesterday that he didn’t feel 100% from the injury he had until the Texans game. Makes sense coming off of the bye.

He’s a huge X-factor as well. I think we all trust Schwartz to play well, but if Fisher does too, the Chiefs will score very early and very often.

I’m not worried about Fisher/Schwartz. The middle of the KC OL is the area to worry. We’ll see if they are up to the task of dealing with Buckner and company.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

A strong RPO game built on the back of early success running the ball could do a lot to minimize Mathieu's impact, though.

You can effectively option him out of the gameplan if you're smart about it. Granted, Mathieu's as clever a defender as you'll find so there will be times that he can trick Grapes into seeing something that isn't there (or not seeing something that is), but that's why I worry about the extra week.

Shanahan knows that Mathieu is a thing he'll need to worry about. And he'll operate accordingly.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Originally Posted by All22

Aaron Jones went off against the Chiefs D. Hiding it amongst Broncos games is intellectually dishonest.

A lot of his damage was done as a receiver. The defense has made major adjustments since then and no longer tries to cover their RBs out wide with a LB.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I’m ****ing rambling here but also to your Breeland point DJ, I think it’s notable that Mathieu is a huge difference maker in that area. He’s a roamer for this defense right now who somehow has the ability to take away multiple routes within one play. We’ve saw that in the last 2 games with these hi/lo concepts that he muddles up for the QB by bouncing around so much.

Even if Breeland loses that battle a few times, Mathieu very well may be waiting inside the hashes and could snatch the ball away on any given play.

Mathieu really just needs to catch the ball that will inevitably hit him in the hands. He might even get two or three of those, but he better catch at least one.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by FAX

The word that keeps popping into (what remains of) my brain is, "Strategery."

Is it actually possible to wear down a pass rush? Can you force them to chase the width of the field for two quarters using jet sweeps and flat passes? Run an up-tempo offense to prevent substitutions? Will screens eventually burn their fuel pointlessly? Max protect, flood half the field, and call roll-out options and RPOs to wear them down?

Does that work?

FAX THE CURIOUS

It works a LOT.

It's the argument I was having with guys in the Reid Appreciation Thread. Too many people wildly underestimate how hard DL's have to work to get after the passer, especially when you have a mobile QB.

If you have those guys blasting upfield and you can convert a couple of 1st downs, by the 5th/6th play of the drive they're losing the starch in their legs. I think that's a big reason why the 49ers defense loses so much effectiveness when they're inside their own territory. They don't have quite the depth with Blair and some other injuries so they can't rotate quite as many as they'd like.

So if you pick up a couple first downs and you're at their 35 yard line, those legs are just gonna be a little tired. Especially if you're playing with some pace and getting back up to the line quickly.

On the flipside, the Chiefs are usually able to burn up secondaries by making them chase rabbits all day but that probably won't work against the 9ers zone schemes. By playing as much zone as they do, the 9er DBs will probably stay pretty fresh and I'd be surprised to see those moments that we saw against guys like Ramsey and Harris where they're reaching for oxygen masks in the 3rd quarter.

But yeah, I absolutely agree with you - get those DL running. Move the pocket a little bit on 1st and 2nd down if you need to. Or better still, if Pat's doing a nice job of stepping up in the pocket, have Fisher and Schwartz send those guys running the arc behind him.

You can gas a DL, especially within a drive.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by All22

Aaron Jones went off against the Chiefs D. Hiding it amongst Broncos games is intellectually dishonest.

Yes he did.

And Spagnuolo made significant defensive adjustments to address those weaknesses. That's about they time they decided to kill the idea of "Tyrann Mathieu: Free Safety" and started using him pretty much everywhere on the field to match up as needed.

And Sorensen was also reintroduced as a hybrid backer to address those problems as well.

The Packers game exposed some serious flaws in our run schemes at the second level and I think the Chiefs have done a lot to address them.

[wachashi]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

A lot of his damage was done as a receiver. The defense has made major adjustments since then and no longer tries to cover their RBs out wide with a LB.

Spags' worst-called game of the year. Couldn't cover Jones and weren't prepared to do so. They shut down Dalvin Cook the next game in the running and passing game after making the right adjustments.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Warren Sharp said that one of the big reasons the Chiefs should be passing early and often is because it will wear down the pass rush. Same can be said for the secondary.

They haven’t seen an offensive attack that is like this and it could result in a lot of huffing and puffing by the 2nd half.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by All22

Aaron Jones went off against the Chiefs D. Hiding it amongst Broncos games is intellectually dishonest.

He had 13 carries for 67 yards. The Packers as a whole had 26 for 118 (4.5 YPR).

It wasn't an attempt to hide it or be dishonest.

You referenced multiple teams with running schemes more similar to the 49ers than the Titans. I quoted the compiled rushing stats against all those teams.

As i mentoned, the 49ers have better TE/FB personnel than any of those teams, which will add another dimension to account for. But the Chiefs have been fine against the run games you say are most similar to your teams.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah - I'm kinda over worrying about this 49er defense.

I've seen enough at this point to believe they're situation dependant, same as must teams, and that our offense is efficient enough to stay out of those situations more than most and succeed when in them more than most as well.

We'll score points.

My concerns right now are almost exclusively with how to keep the 49ers from putting up 38 and in so doing, keeping the Chiefs offense off the field and under immense pressure.

The last thing I want to see is one of those Vermiel era games where any punt or turnover feels like the end of the world. With an extra week and a very smart HC, the 49ers are going to be able to attack our weaknesses. This defense has more strengths than it's given credit for and in a regular season game I think they'd be apparent. But with a week off to scheme around our strengths and target our weaknesses, I just get a little concerned that we'll end up seeing a 'career day defense' kind of performance out there. And not because they all sucked, but because enough of them did.

One of the wild cards we hadn't considered is Brendan Daly and I suspect he's a much bigger reason for our defenses fantastic adjustments than people realize. He was part of a patriots coaching staff that made big big time adjustments to Shanahan in the super bowl a few years back when they beat the falcons. I've been really impressed not with our defensive game planning but the brilliant adjustments we've made throughout the year. I wouldn't bet the house on spags vs Shanahan but I have faith in our defensive coaching staff as a whole to do a lot of things Shanahan isn't expecting too.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

One of the wild cards we hadn't considered is Brendan Daly and I suspect he's a much bigger reason for our defenses fantastic adjustments than people realize. He was part of a patriots coaching staff that made big big time adjustments to Shanahan in the super bowl a few years back when they beat the falcons. I've been really impressed not with our defensive game planning but the brilliant adjustments we've made throughout the year. I wouldn't bet the house on spags vs Shanahan but I have faith in our defensive coaching staff as a whole to do a lot of things Shanahan isn't expecting too.

Love Daly and what he brings. Hope KC can hang on to him long enough to replace Spagnuolo (who I expect will have the opportunity for a new HC job after 2021).

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

Warren Sharp said that one of the big reasons the Chiefs should be passing early and often is because it will wear down the pass rush. Same can be said for the secondary.

They haven’t seen an offensive attack that is like this and it could result in a lot of huffing and puffing by the 2nd half.

Completely agree.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It works a LOT.

It's the argument I was having with guys in the Reid Appreciation Thread. Too many people wildly underestimate how hard DL's have to work to get after the passer, especially when you have a mobile QB.

If you have those guys blasting upfield and you can convert a couple of 1st downs, by the 5th/6th play of the drive they're losing the starch in their legs. I think that's a big reason why the 49ers defense loses so much effectiveness when they're inside their own territory. They don't have quite the depth with Blair and some other injuries so they can't rotate quite as many as they'd like.

So if you pick up a couple first downs and you're at their 35 yard line, those legs are just gonna be a little tired. Especially if you're playing with some pace and getting back up to the line quickly.

On the flipside, the Chiefs are usually able to burn up secondaries by making them chase rabbits all day but that probably won't work against the 9ers zone schemes. By playing as much zone as they do, the 9er DBs will probably stay pretty fresh and I'd be surprised to see those moments that we saw against guys like Ramsey and Harris where they're reaching for oxygen masks in the 3rd quarter.

But yeah, I absolutely agree with you - get those DL running. Move the pocket a little bit on 1st and 2nd down if you need to. Or better still, if Pat's doing a nice job of stepping up in the pocket, have Fisher and Schwartz send those guys running the arc behind him.

You can gas a DL, especially within a drive.

If that's the case, then I suggest we do that.

I'm sure The Heck Brigade has identified tendencies among the Needle Town's d-line. Hopefully, one of those is the proclivity for the edge rushers to take wide arcs. If so, that could play to our advantage. More steps per snap in heat and humidity leads to a weary d-end.

On the other hand, if they try to contain and close quickly, we have the 1 QB in the world who can take a 24-step drop and still pick up 50 yards while making an accurate throw with velocity.

If I were strategerizing the early game plan, I'm moving the pocket, flooding half the field when they're playing zone (which forces the d-backs on the other side to run further) and letting Mahomes choose the receiver with the most separation at depth.

See how they defend that for a series or two then adjust to taste.

FAX