Let's talk about the 49ers (Super Bowl Edition)

[TLO]

Well Chiefs vs Packers is what I had hoped for, but that's not happening.

Let's talk about Chiefs vs 49ers here.

[Hammock Parties]

dirty dan up studying already

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by All22

Then can you specifically state what configuration you expect them to be in? When you say "similar to what NE did against the Rams", that's the 6-1.

The Packers didn't put 5 guys between the tackles. They put 3 guys over the center and guards then had the Smith's linedup outside of the tackles or even sometimes outside of the TE. So I assumie you didn't mean the same configuration, right?

That Packers formation basically created a huge alley outside of the DE but between the LB. When the LB tried to adjust to fill that alley, space was created outside.

Jonnydel does a great job of showing the scheme here:
youtu.be/OrPj-QukWpQ

JT O'Sullivan's QB school did a long breakdown of every run play that's excellent as well.

to clarify-and if you actually bothered to watch KC, you'd see this-

Spags will run a four man line. Mostly. He may walk a 'backer down. If he does, he may or may not be coming. He might just jump back out at the snap.

You may see 3 lb'ers. You might see 2. You might see 1.

We have several players that play several roles. Sorensen may be a nickel type LB, a SS, or a FS, Matthieu a slot CB or a SS, or a FS, and Fuller may be a FS, or slot CB. O'Daniel may be an OLB or a SS. The only guys in the back 7 that are generally what they appear to be on every snap are the outside corners.

in the defensive backfield, we mix and match man and zone looks. We'll show blitz and not; we'll delay blitz when it looked like we were going to sit in coverage.

pre-snap reads and post snap reality are seldom the same thing.

We do similar things on the defensive line. Sometimes you'll see Kpassgnon, a DE, line up inside. Sometimes Jones, a DT, will line up outside. Sometimes you'll see Clark on the right. Sometimes he'll be on the left. They stunt, and cross, and hell, against Tennessee, we saw Kpass ten yards downfield breaking up a pass in the middle of the field to a RB. And T. Suggs still looks like Suggs.

Since this defense got healthy, and the whole group understanding the system, they've been very, very good. A lot of deception.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by All22

I'd be surprised if we got a ton of sacks.

I think the 49ers offense beats up on the Chiefs D. The 49ers D goes wide-9 with two safeties deep nearly the entire game and dare the Chiefs to run it.

Rush with four, play 2 deep, drop 5 into the short/intermediate zones is what most teams try to do against KC now.

The best alignment is one that plays sticky man coverage to prevent quick wins/throws from Mahomes and pairs it with a good pass rush. The Chiefs made nice adjustments to that approach as the season went on, but it's still the best chance. Comes down to personnel.

The 49ers offense will find some success against Kansas City, no doubt. But the Chiefs D is very tough and physical - something I think many are overlooking or unaware of outside those who follow the Chiefs.

Start with the DL: Frank Clark and Terrell Suggs are two of the toughest, nastiest players you're going to find at DE. They're relentless and play with an edge. Pennel and Jones and Nnadi inside are all physical players. Xavier Williams is really the only finesse guy they have been playing regularly, and he's their 4th DT.

At LB, Ragland and Damien Wilson are very physical OLBs. Another key part of the defensive transformation was flipping Wilson to WLB and inserting Ragland at SLB, benching "coverage specialist" WLB Darron Lee (who sucks at coverage and is a weak tackler).

The Ss, Tyrann Mathieu and Dan Sorenson, are both really physical players. When KC goes to its 3-safety defense, with Kyle Fuller playing the deep safety. Even when Ragland comes off and the third safety comes on, a physical player slides into the role of that LB.

^ Long way of me saying that the Chiefs may get BEAT on defense, but they won't get BEAT UP physically.

Last year, the Chiefs' D was a soft, finesse defense. If it couldn't rush the passer and win with pressure, it was worthless. Very different this year.

[wachashi]

Originally Posted by All22

The Titans and 49ers blocking schemes aren't that similar.The Titans outside zone typically aims one or two gaps inside of where ours aims and we run a lot more trap, power, jet sweep, toss etc than they do.

Shanahan is smart enough not to just run at Chris Jones all day.

Anyone who has to set the edge against Kittle and Juice also have to cover them in play-action.

Tennessee and the Niners run similar offensive schemes, and that's going to help this defense in preparation. Is there team in the league that more closely resembles this Niners offense than Tennessee? Both offenses were very good on the season, with a slight edge to Tennessee in both rushing and passing efficiency.

Niners use more pre-snap motion and they teach their backs not to cut as early as Henry was cutting against KC. But, yeah, I think KC could not have asked for a better opponent than the Titans to help prepare them for the SF offense.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by RunKC

We’ve seen that defense before. If you’re going to have an extra player deep, we’ll just attack the middle of the field.

The Bears did that and we killed them in the intermediate level of the field again and again.

Mahomes has grown significantly in that area this year. He’s become patient and will sacrifice for an easy 5 yards on 1st down if he has to.

The Bears game should scare the 49ers. The Bears D is close to being as good as the Niners, they were at home, and their D played really well, I thought. Chiefs receivers were NOT running wide open for the most part, and they were getting some pressure on Mahomes. None of it mattered though. Mahomes simply made plays.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm truly terrified of Bashaud Breeland in this game.

The play-action is going to eat him alive. He's not a particularly smart CB and he's super-aggressive. He loves coming downhill in run support and those play fakes will have him jumping every time. Worse still, he'd be a marginal athlete at SS, as a CB he's Richard Sherman without the savvy. He has nothing approaching the recovery speed to stay in a play if he so much as takes a single false step.

I hope he just shades these guys towards inside routes, stays back on play action and stays on those dig/in routes. Eventually they'll torch him on a double move but oh well - they ain't gonna win it with 7 points. You tip your cap and go to the sideline at that point. If Grapes can get you with a deep throw on the sidelines, well then he got you. But don't give him that easy money that you were giving Tannehill and Corey Davis last week. Oh, and none of that even speaks to the fact that he's good for at least one holding and/or PI penalty per week when he gets beat.

I think he's gonna be a walking 3rd down conversion if he plays anything like he's played most of the year. He's simply a god-awful matchup for a Shanahan team that thrives on misdirection and play action. Still can't believe that stupid ****er held a guys jersey on 3rd and 22.

You just can't be much dumber than Bashaud Breeland is out there and I just know it's going to kill us. I have no idea what Spags can do to minimize his impact but I hope he figures something out. Otherwise it'll be like that game where Manning just dropped back and found Mitchell every play for 3 series and beat us with the Broncos.

The guy's a major liability.

[All22]

Originally Posted by wachashi

Tennessee and the Niners run similar offensive schemes, and that's going to help this defense in preparation. Is there team in the league that more closely resembles this Niners offense than Tennessee? Both offenses were very good on the season, with a slight edge to Tennessee in both rushing and passing efficiency.

Niners use more pre-snap motion and they teach their backs not to cut as early as Henry was cutting against KC. But, yeah, I think KC could not have asked for a better opponent than the Titans to help prepare them for the SF offense.

There are lots of teams that resemble last year's running game: Denver, Rams, Packers etc.
The Vikings resemble Mike Shanahan's offense.

But not the Titans. Just look at the way we use Kittle and Juice. The Titans don't have anything like that.

They're superficially similar in some ways but I think the Rams are far more similar to us than any other team even though the personnel is different (no FB) and they run more inside zone than outside. The Packers are pretty similar schematically but after two games against them it's clear that Lafluer isn't in the same class of play design or play calling as Kyle is

[TribalElder]

Had to turn off the sports talk shows after everyone keeps blowing the 49ers

Even Thannon Tharpe went full tard and jumped on shannarats nuts

[All22]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm truly terrified of Bashaud Breeland in this game.

The play-action is going to eat him alive. He's not a particularly smart CB and he's super-aggressive. He loves coming downhill in run support and those play fakes will have him jumping every time. Worse still, he'd be a marginal athlete at SS, as a CB he's Richard Sherman without the savvy. He has nothing approaching the recovery speed to stay in a play if he so much as takes a single false step.

I hope he just shades these guys towards inside routes, stays back on play action and stays on those dig/in routes. Eventually they'll torch him on a double move but oh well - they ain't gonna win it with 7 points. You tip your cap and go to the sideline at that point. If Grapes can get you with a deep throw on the sidelines, well then he got you. But don't give him that easy money that you were giving Tannehill and Corey Davis last week. Oh, and none of that even speaks to the fact that he's good for at least one holding and/or PI penalty per week when he gets beat.

I think he's gonna be a walking 3rd down conversion if he plays anything like he's played most of the year. He's simply a god-awful matchup for a Shanahan team that thrives on misdirection and play action. Still can't believe that stupid ****er held a guys jersey on 3rd and 22.

You just can't be much dumber than Bashaud Breeland is out there and I just know it's going to kill us. I have no idea what Spags can do to minimize his impact but I hope he figures something out. Otherwise it'll be like that game where Manning just dropped back and found Mitchell every play for 3 series and beat us with the Broncos.

The guy's a major liability.

Most of your defensive players are super aggressive, for better or worse. The opposite of GB. Their safeties were so ****ing timid.

[Hern]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

The Bears game should scare the 49ers. The Bears D is close to being as good as the Niners, they were at home, and their D played really well, I thought. Chiefs receivers were NOT running wide open for the most part, and they were getting some pressure on Mahomes. None of it mattered though. Mahomes simply made plays.

You’re absolutely correct. Just finished watching the video and I’m beyond petrified now. I mean, KC has all the answers. It’s unfair.

Now that I saw how great Mahomes played against a D so similar to ours in all areas, time to go lose even more sleep by watching the KC vs Tenn highlights. That’ll show me how they’ll stop the 9ers O.

It’s truly unfair.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by All22

There are lots of teams that resemble last year's running game: Denver, Rams, Packers etc.
The Vikings resemble Mike Shanahan's offense.

But not the Titans. Just look at the way we use Kittle and Juice. The Titans don't have anything like that.

They're superficially similar in some ways but I think the Rams are far more similar to us than any other team even though the personnel is different (no FB) and they run more inside zone than outside. The Packers are pretty similar schematically but after two games against them it's clear that Lafluer isn't in the same class of play design or play calling as Kyle is

Good point.

To quote Barney Stinson (kind of): Haaaaaaaaave ya seen what the Chiefs did to the run games of the Broncos, Vikings and Packers?

[All22]

Originally Posted by TribalElder

Had to turn off the sports talk shows after everyone keeps blowing the 49ers

Even Thannon Tharpe went full tard and jumped on shannarats nuts

He won two Superbowls under Mike Shanahan and in a very similar offense. Mike also ran T.D. all day like we've been running Mostert.

What do you expect him to say

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by All22

Most of your defensive players are super aggressive, for better or worse. The opposite of GB. Their safeties were so ****ing timid.

You need to be terrified of Bashaud Breeland too, bitch.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by All22

Most of your defensive players are super aggressive, for better or worse. The opposite of GB. Their safeties were so ****ing timid.

And by and large, I'm fine with that. Mathieu and Ward have the athleticism to manage it. Sorensen is actually pretty calculating in his aggression - he's not actually someone that seeks to be first to the pile, he just makes sure that when he gets there, he gets there with bad intentions.

Hitchens is actually doing a decent job this year understanding his roles. He's not a guy that will take himself out of plays that often. Ragland will, but ultimately if I have a choice between him playing downhill and taking himself completely out of a play or playing more passive and being a step too slow to make a play in space anyway, I'll take the aggression. Wilson's been quite good this year.

The DL - yeah, you think whatever you want about those guys. That's a ****ing stellar group and I'm looking forward to them going out there and giving some talking heads a mushroom tattoo. Those guys have played exceptionally smart football for about 10 weeks and they've done it while playing with a ferocity you rarely see. I have very few concerns about this DL - they'll do their jobs and then some.

The game may just come down to Breeland not being an idiot and Hitchens being locked in. If Hitchens can flow/react as he needs to to keep those stretch plays from breaking for 6-8 yards with regularity and force the 49ers into 3rd downs and then Breeland can manage to not allow them to convert those 3rd downs with regularity, I think we'll be okay on defense.

Not great, but okay. As I've said all along - the offense will have to win this sucker and if they don't answer the bell, we lose.

[Hammock Parties]

Carl Peterson told me this is his lucky hat. You're welcome, KC. #SBLIV #ChiefsKingdom #810WHB pic.twitter.com/nQ8rOqdC1f

— Steven St.John (@SSJWHB) January 31, 2020