New Conference re-alignment thread

[Saulbadguy]

The old one has AIDS.

Anyways, Chip Brown from Orangebloods.com reports OU may apply to the Pac-12 by the end of the month.

Oklahoma will apply for membership to the Pac-12 before the end of the month, and Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit, a source close to OU's administration told Orangebloods.com.

Even though Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Friday the Pac-12 was not interested in expansion at this time, OU's board of regents is fed up with the instability in the Big 12, the source said.

The OU board of regents will meet within two weeks to formalize plans to apply for membership to the Pac-12, the source said.

Messages left Sunday night with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione and Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder were not immediately returned.

If OU follows through with what appears to be a unanimous sentiment on the seven-member Oklahoma board of regents to leave the Big 12, realignment in college athletics could be heating back up. OU's application would be matched by an application from Oklahoma State, the source said, even though OSU president Burns Hargis and mega-booster Boone Pickens both voiced their support for the Big 12 last Thursday.

There is differing sentiment about if the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors are ready to expand again after bringing in Colorado and Utah last year and landing $3 billion TV contracts from Fox and ESPN. Colorado president Bruce Benson told reporters last week CU would be opposed to any expansion that might bring about east and west divisions in the Pac-12.

Currently, there are north and south divisions in the Pac-12. If OU and OSU were to join, Larry Scott would have to get creative.

Scott's orginal plan last summer was to bring in Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and put them in an eastern division with Arizona and Arizona State. The old Pac-8 schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State) were to be in the west division.

Colorado made the move in June 2010, but when Texas A&M was not on board to go west, the Big 12 came back together with the help of its television partners (ABC/ESPN and Fox).

If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were accepted into the Pac-12, there would undoubtedly be a hope by Larry Scott that Texas would join the league. But Texas sources have indicated UT is determined to hang onto the Longhorn Network, which would not be permissible in the Pac-12 in its current form.

Texas sources continue to indicate to Orangebloods.com that if the Big 12 falls apart, the Longhorns would consider "all options."

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe held an emergency conference call 10 days ago with league presidents excluding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M and asked the other league presidents to "work on Texas" because Beebe didn't think the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma without Texas.

Now, it appears OU is willing to take its chances with the Pac-12 with or without Texas.

There seemed to be a temporary pause in any possible shifting of the college athletics' landscape when Baylor led a charge to tie up Texas A&M's move to the Southeastern Conference in legal red tape. BU refused to waive its right to sue the SEC over A&M's departure from the Big 12, and the SEC said it would not admit Texas A&M until it had been cleared of any potential lawsuits.

Baylor, Kansas and Iowa State have indicated they will not waive their right to sue the SEC.

It's unclear if an application by OU to the Pac-12 would draw the same threats of litigation against the Pac-12 from those Big 12 schools.

Stay tuned.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

OU & OSU were already out the door with Ut & TT until Scott slammed the door in their faces. How come they didn't feel any heat from KU/KSU/ISU?

You don't use an escape hatch that you don't want to use unless, you know, you have to escape.

I'm saying that just blindly standing on the bridge of the ship and yelling at everyone to calm down while spending no time at all to look for an out would be dumb.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I have little doubt they were, but I thought they kept the information confidential, thus not causing further instability. That is why I was asking if something was out there that I missed.

It was obvious to me by Bill Self's comments, that shit must be real behind closed doors.

Well yeah, I'm not agitated by the lack of information like a lot of stupid KU fans. If they have an out, I don't need to know about it. If KU has no out and are totally screwed if the conference falls, I don't need to know that either. Thankfully, we seem to have fewer leaks than MU.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

WTF !?!? Geezus there are so many posts on here that are absurdly laughable debating the penalties with some crackpipe legal analysis, and some rather delusional justifications going on.

1st, the Big 12 can seek the maximum penalty for MU leaving. Each member signed the contract and has a duty specific to the contract. I don't know if that's 25 mil or whatever it is, but nothing legally restricts the B12 from going after the max / more than 6 mil. Last year the remaining members SETTLED with CU & NU on 6 mil. That doesn't mean that the contract was ratified as the new max, just that they agreed on a price for the B12 to not seek further legal action- a decision that would be cleared by all the remaining member institutions including MU. So there is little room to claim that defense since they were a party to its proceeding last year.

Contract disputes can be enforced, broken, seek damages or specific performance or otherwise remedy thru equitable justice. If the lang of the contract regarding the damages section spells out a percentage, then the figure could be higher than 25 mil, but I doubt that would be the case. If it went to court the judge has discretion so long as there is no unjust enrichment.

As to the B12 Commish's comment, how are they out of line when MU held a news conf stating their intention to explore switching confs. He is well within his duty and legal standing to respond to questions since its an ongoing and unsettled matter of the B12 once MU made their announcement and it looks like competing factions within MU are leaking info left and right to either push MU to go or try to kill the chances of it.

Yes, they settled for an agreed amount of damages. You can pretend that those numbers won't be used as a starting point for determining damages in the future, but that's not a very bright position.

Missouri gave Deaton the authority to explore options. So fuccking what? Its not the Big XII's place to make sure that MU never looks around. I have a phone contract with Sprint, but I'm checking out AT&T. That's none of Sprint's business.

Missouri has made no official movement towards exiting the conference, and until they do, it is the conference's duty to act in the best interests of all of its members. You are welcome to believe that public threats against amember in good standing that has publicly said nothing beyond "we are proud members of the Big XII" won't be seen as the conference violating its duty to a member, but I think you're silly.

In all liklehood, Neinas knows that MU is out the door and wants to push them out so that they can start finding new members. MU has nothing to gain by leaving early. They longer we wait, the more aggressive Neinas gets, and the stronger our case becomes when we say that we didn't jump, we were pushed.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth

WTF !?!? Geezus there are so many posts on here that are absurdly laughable debating the penalties with some crackpipe legal analysis, and some rather delusional justifications going on.

1st, the Big 12 can seek the maximum penalty for MU leaving. Each member signed the contract and has a duty specific to the contract. I don't know if that's 25 mil or whatever it is, but nothing legally restricts the B12 from going after the max / more than 6 mil. Last year the remaining members SETTLED with CU & NU on 6 mil. That doesn't mean that the contract was ratified as the new max, just that they agreed on a price for the B12 to not seek further legal action- a decision that would be cleared by all the remaining member institutions including MU. So there is little room to claim that defense since they were a party to its proceeding last year.

Contract disputes can be enforced, broken, seek damages or specific performance or otherwise remedy thru equitable justice. If the lang of the contract regarding the damages section spells out a percentage, then the figure could be higher than 25 mil, but I doubt that would be the case. If it went to court the judge has discretion so long as there is no unjust enrichment.

As to the B12 Commish's comment, how are they out of line when MU held a news conf stating their intention to explore switching confs. He is well within his duty and legal standing to respond to questions since its an ongoing and unsettled matter of the B12 once MU made their announcement and it looks like competing factions within MU are leaking info left and right to either push MU to go or try to kill the chances of it.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

Yeah there's no doubt Mizzou can't come near to losing like KU does! Think OU will hang a 100 on ya?

I was talking about winning and I'm sure you knew that when you posted this absolute abortion of a post.

I know you want to be shortsighted, but I was talking about conference wins and national championships. One school has them, the other doesn't. I'm not even bringing BCS bowls up.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Pants

I was talking about winning and I'm sure you knew that when you posted this absolute abortion of a post.

I know you want to be shortsighted, but I was talking about conference wins and national championships. One school has them, the other doesn't. I'm not even bringing BCS bowls up.

Speaking of shortsighted, your entire post is based on - SURPRISE! - basketball, which we all know is uber important.

If we're talking football, ku has never finished above Mizzou in the history of the Big 12.

If we're talking overall athletic departments, ku finished last in the Director's Cup standings this part year and was one of the five worst programs among the major conferences.

If we are comparing head-to-head results, Mizzou has a 7-2 record in the Border Showdown series and has won the last 5 years.

But yeah, ku is all about WINNING! and CHAMPIONSHIPS! You make a fine Robin to wickeddumb's Batman.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Pants

I was talking about winning and I'm sure you knew that when you posted this absolute abortion of a post.

I know you want to be shortsighted, but I was talking about conference wins and national championships. One school has them, the other doesn't. I'm not even bringing BCS bowls up.

Wickedpants!

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by frazod

Wickedpants!

[Pants]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Speaking of shortsighted, your entire post is based on - SURPRISE! - basketball, which we all know is uber important.

If we're talking football, ku has never finished above Mizzou in the history of the Big 12.

If we're talking overall athletic departments, ku finished last in the Director's Cup standings this part year and was one of the five worst programs among the major conferences.

If we are comparing head-to-head results, Mizzou has a 7-2 record in the Border Showdown series and has won the last 5 years.

But yeah, ku is all about WINNING! and CHAMPIONSHIPS! You make a fine Robin to wickeddumb's Batman.

/sigh

KU and MU are 4-4 in the last 8 years with KU's last win coming in 2008. Not really sure where you came up with your numbers, but like the rest of your post, they're wrong.

And, look, I'm not saying KU is some kind of national powerhouse, I'm just saying we win where we can (basketball) and you win where you can (women's softball or whatever). I'm sorry that your school is mediocre in both football and basketball.

KU has a rich tradition in a secondary sport, your school is as generic as they come in every aspect. Hopefully, KU can get over this Gill period with a solid coaching hire in a couple of years and maybe one day we can reach your mediocrity levels in football again.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Pants

/sigh

KU and MU are 4-4 in the last 8 years with KU's last win coming in 2008. Not really sure where you came up with your numbers, but like the rest of your post, they're wrong.

Please tell me when ku finished ahead of Mizzou in football during the history of the Big 12 if I am wrong. Thanks.

And, look, I'm not saying KU is some kind of national powerhouse, I'm just saying we win where we can (basketball) and you win where you can (women's softball or whatever). I'm sorry that your school is mediocre in both football and basketball.

Yes you are good at basketball and pretty awful at everything else, hence your terrible Director's Cup standings that include all sports. You also are pretty terrible against Mizzou in every sport that isn't men's basketball. This is the point.

KU has a rich tradition in a secondary sport, your school is as generic as they come in every aspect. Hopefully, KU can get over this Gill period with a solid coaching hire in a couple of years and maybe one day we can reach your mediocrity levels in football again.

See prior comment. Mizzou is generally a top 25 team in both football and basketball. ku is top 5-10 in basketball and bottom 5-10 in football. ku's entire athletic department is a one trick pony. I guess fans learn to accept it though, it's apparent you really just can't do any better.

Since 1994, you have never finished ahead of your bitter rival in the premier sport. That has to be pretty humbling.

[Pants]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Yes you are good at basketball and pretty awful at everything else, hence your terrible Director's Cup standings that include all sports. You also are pretty terrible against Mizzou in every sport that isn't men's basketball. This is the point.

I honestly don't know about sports that aren't televised, but again, you're wrong. KU is not terrible against MU in football, I suggest you look up the records before you claim something as stupid again. Maybe in your head this is true, but that's the same place that thought MU was up 7-2 in head to head record in the last 9 years and won 5 in a row.

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Mizzou is generally a top 25 team in both football and basketball. ku is top 5-10 in basketball and bottom 5-10 in football. ku's entire athletic department is a one trick pony. I guess fans learn to accept it though, it's apparent you really just can't do any better.

Yes, I accept that out of the two sports that are televised, KU gets one that is an absolutely elite program while the other one is garbage more often than it's not.

Originally Posted by eazyb81

Since 1994, you have never finished ahead of your bitter rival in the premier sport. That has to be pretty humbling.

Not really. We get to celebrate championships every year. The last time you got to celebrate a championship was when you won a meaningless Big12 Conference Basketball Tournament, unless of course you're a big fan of womens softball or whatever it was. I seem to remember you, yourself, being awfully proud of that basketabll championship which spurred an argument or two about how you "don't care about basketball."

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Pants

/sigh

KU and MU are 4-4 in the last 8 years with KU's last win coming in 2008. Not really sure where you came up with your numbers, but like the rest of your post, they're wrong.

And, look, I'm not saying KU is some kind of national powerhouse, I'm just saying we win where we can (basketball) and you win where you can (women's softball or whatever). I'm sorry that your school is mediocre in both football and basketball.

KU has a rich tradition in a secondary sport, your school is as generic as they come in every aspect. Hopefully, KU can get over this Gill period with a solid coaching hire in a couple of years and maybe one day we can reach your mediocrity levels in football again.

Burrrrn! ZiinnGG!!

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Pants

I honestly don't know about sports that aren't televised, but again, you're wrong. KU is not terrible against MU in football, I suggest you look up the records before you claim something as stupid again. Maybe in your head this is true, but that's the same place that thought MU was up 7-2 in head to head record in the last 9 years and won 5 in a row.



Yes, I accept that out of the two sports that are televised, KU gets one that is an absolutely elite program while the other one is garbage more often than it's not.



Not really. We get to celebrate championships every year. The last time you got to celebrate a championship was when you won a meaningless Big12 Conference Basketball Tournament, unless of course you're a big fan of womens softball or whatever it was. I seem to remember you, yourself, being awfully proud of that basketabll championship which spurred an argument or two about how you "don't care about basketball."

Someone just got Ballsacked!

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Pants

I honestly don't know about sports that aren't televised, but again, you're wrong. KU is not terrible against MU in football, I suggest you look up the records before you claim something as stupid again. Maybe in your head this is true, but that's the same place that thought MU was up 7-2 in head to head record in the last 9 years and won 5 in a row.

Maybe you should reread your original post, which implied ku has conference wins and Mizzou doesn't. It was a stupid, wickeddumb-esque post that you got called on, and now you are changing the goalposts to fit your flawed argument.

I never said ku was terrible against Mizzou in head-to-head football. What I did say was ku has never finished ahead of Mizzou in Big 12 football standings since the Big 12 was formed in 1994, and that Mizzou more often than not beat ku head-to-head in all sports except for men's basketball. Those are facts.

I also pointed out that ku is dead last in the Director's Cup standings which include all sports, so that would be pretty impressive to finish last yet still somehow win more conference games than Mizzou. Almost impossible even.

Not really. We get to celebrate championships every year. The last time you got to celebrate a championship was when you won a meaningless Big12 Conference Basketball Tournament, unless of course you're a big fan of womens softball or whatever it was. I seem to remember you, yourself, being awfully proud of that basketabll championship which spurred an argument or two about how you "don't care about basketball."

You get to celebrate a conference championship in men's basketball almost every year, that is true. However, for all but maybe 3-5 schools in the entire country, basketball takes a huge backseat to football, and having a consistently competitive football team is more preferable than top 10 basketball and bottom 10 football. That's just reality.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

See prior comment. Mizzou is generally a top 25 team in both football and basketball. ku is top 5-10 in basketball and bottom 5-10 in football. ku's entire athletic department is a one trick pony. I guess fans learn to accept it though, it's apparent you really just can't do any better.

Mizzou BB has finished in the top 25 twice in the past 10 years, and Mizzou FB has finished in the top 25 three times in 10 years.... and those years include some of the best finishes in both sports. I wouldn't call that 'generally'.