Chiefs ****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread**** - Page 300

Sofa King · 09-07-2023, 09:08 PM

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

**The Franchise** · 10-17-2023, 11:53 AM

I'm just not seeing a spot in this offense for Moore. It sucks but it is what it is.

Rice is better from the slot in the Juju role.
Watson and MVS can run deep and intermediate routes.
Toney is faster and more elusive.

What does Moore bring to the table that other WRs don't have?

**The Franchise** · 10-17-2023, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

He looks like the only one not going to the sticks. Looks like it was basically just a clearing route just to keep a defender or 2 occupied and he wasn't really part of the reads unless it became a scramble drill

Except none of the other defenders gave a shit about him because it's Skyy ****ing Moore.

ToxSocks · 10-17-2023, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

What kind of trust here are we talking about?

What is it that you think Mahomes doesn't trust?

I'm not sure "trust" is the right word. I think Mahomes knows who each of these guys are, what they do and don't do well and filters his decision making based off expectations, which are based off prior experience.

"Trust" gets thrown around this forum as a way to pass blame to Mahomes for not throwing to guys that CP All-22 nerds THINK are open.

To me, "trust" is applied in situations like, "Hey don't throw a 50/50 ball to this guy because he routinely loses those in practice".

And that's not really a trust problem so much as it is being smart and knowing who your teammates are and arent.

And through that logic we arrive to DJ's point: He doesn't trust the talent to make the play, which is the fault of the talent he's throwing to, not necessarily the QB. So get better talent.

I mean, logically it makes sense if you believe in your QB.

And well.....we have a pretty good idea of what Mahomes is by this point....so...again, LOGICALLY....

ThaVirus · 10-17-2023, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

To me, "trust" is applied in situations like, "Hey don't throw a 50/50 ball to this guy because he routinely loses those in practice".

Speaking of, why did Mahomie do that with Moore in the game last week? We got really lucky the DB just happened to tug Skyy’s Jersey because it didn’t affect the play whatsoever and saved us from another dumbass INT.

ToxSocks · 10-17-2023, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

He looks like the only one not going to the sticks. Looks like it was basically just a clearing route just to keep a defender or 2 occupied and he wasn't really part of the reads unless it became a scramble drill

Could totally be the case.

Either way, he didn't make the throw because he didn't think it would result in a TD.

Beyond that, just gonna have to draw your own conclusions as to why.

O.city · 10-17-2023, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

What kind of trust here are we talking about?

What is it that you think Mahomes doesn't trust?

I'm not sure "trust" is the right word. I think Mahomes knows who each of these guys are, what they do and don't do well and filters his decision making based off expectations, which are based off prior experience.

"Trust" gets thrown around this forum as a way to pass blame to Mahomes for not throwing to guys that CP All-22 nerds THINK are open.

To me, "trust" is applied in situations like, "Hey don't throw a 50/50 ball to this guy because he routinely loses those in practice".

And that's not really a trust problem so much as it is being smart and knowing who your teammates are and arent.

Well that's a pretty big problem then.

In no way is this a 50-50 ball though. I don't have a problem not letting one loose down the seam on a guy you don't think is gonna absorb contact I guess but that again, is a pretty big issue if your QB won't throw to a guy with leverage like this.

We don't know when he was looking at what here, so the whole "he's open" thing is always tough as it's more when than if you are open.

But shit guys, if we can't make this throw in this situation because we don't think the guy can catch it and beat a guy to the sideline for another couple yards, the guy doesn't need to be on the field.

Megatron96 · 10-17-2023, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Right now this is where Skyy Moore can build with Mahomes. Give him quick routes against off coverage and let him work from there to find his rhythm in the offense. #Chiefs pic.twitter.com/O4F3Ml3I1K
— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) October 16, 2023

So he trusted him to make the play here, yet doesn't in that other situation?

Look at Pat; he doesn't look at anyone else but Skyy. This play was designed for Skyy; no one else was ever a legitimate target. Also, look at the route Scantling runs and how MVS runs his route (this was never a legitimate route for MVS); look at how the defense reacts to him. The play was designed to draw the S to MVS and away from Skyy's route.

This play wasn't about trust. It was a play called for and schemed for Skyy.

ThaVirus · 10-17-2023, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

But shit guys, if we can't make this throw in this situation because we don't think the guy can catch it and beat a guy to the sideline for another couple yards, the guy doesn't need to be on the field.

Agreed! Get Skyy off the field.

O.city · 10-17-2023, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

And through that logic we arrive to DJ's point: He doesn't trust the talent to make the play, which is the fault of the talent he's throwing to, not necessarily the QB. So get better talent.

I mean, logically it makes sense if you believe in your QB.

And well.....we have a pretty good idea of what Mahomes is by this point....so...again, LOGICALLY....

Well....we're getting into some weird territory here then.

Pat's contract means certain things we've all talked about ad nauseum here. At some point, he's gonna have to make some things work.

ToxSocks · 10-17-2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Well that's a pretty big problem then.

In no way is this a 50-50 ball though. I don't have a problem not letting one loose down the seam on a guy you don't think is gonna absorb contact I guess but that again, is a pretty big issue if your QB won't throw to a guy with leverage like this.

That was just an example. In this case, through that logic, it means Mahomes didn't think Moore had enough space between the defender and the sideline to allow Moore to turn up field and get into the endzone before the defender closed the gap and either tackled him and pushed him out of bounds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

But shit guys, if we can't make this throw in this situation because we don't think the guy can catch it and beat a guy to the sideline for another couple yards, the guy doesn't need to be on the field.

Yeah, that's the point.

And to be fair to Moore, it may not be because of Moore specifically. It could be as a i just described. Maybe Mahomes felt like the room between the defender and sideline wasn't enough to do something with.

Or hell, maybe DJ is right and if that were Hardman or Toney, he makes that throw because he thinks his guy will shake that defender for the Tuddie. /shrug

O.city · 10-17-2023, 12:01 PM

It looks like cover 2 with both safeties driving on Kelce and Rice being the back side post. It's kinda weird that the both are pretty close there, spacing looks off.

I'm going to guess, once the safeties drive, ball needs to go outside there.

TwistedChief · 10-17-2023, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

To me, "trust" is applied in situations like, "Hey don't throw a 50/50 ball to this guy because he routinely loses those in practice".

And that's not really a trust problem so much as it is being smart and knowing who your teammates are and arent.

Right, but there's trust that a guy is going to be in the right place when he's running a route. There's trust that if Mahomes puts it on a guy's left shoulder before he turns around that the guy breaks the right way and makes the catch rather than its being an easy pick.

And while practice definitely helps to refine some of that stuff, I'm sure there are players who just panic and don't show up in actual games (Moore??). And the only way to confidently break that cycle is to give the guy more reps/chances at game speed until it's really conclusive that it's not gonna work.

The struggles that the WRs and Mahomes are having are not mutually exclusive. There is no doubt it is a lot more on the WRs than it is on Mahomes though, but the onus is on both to try and figure it out.

O.city · 10-17-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

That was just an example. In this case, through that logic, it means Mahomes didn't think Moore had enough space between the defender and the sideline to allow Moore to turn up field and get into the endzone before the defender closed the gap and either tackled him and pushed him out of bounds.

Yeah, that's the point.

And to be fair to Moore, it may not be because of Moore specifically. It could be as a i just described. Maybe Mahomes felt like the room between the defender and sideline wasn't enough to do something with.

Or hell, maybe DJ is right and if that were Hardman or Toney, he makes that throw because he thinks his guy will shake that defender for the Tuddie. /shrug

He doesn't have to get in the endzone. He has to outrun the defender to the sideline and get what he can get. If he can beat him and gain another yard, it's a first down. Missed tackle, touchdown etc.

ToxSocks · 10-17-2023, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Well....we're getting into some weird territory here then.

Pat's contract means certain things we've all talked about ad nauseum here. At some point, he's gonna have to make some things work.

Why are we assuming there was something wrong with Pat's decision not to throw to Skyy there?

Obviously he shouldn't have thrown the INT, but if that throw, on 3rd down, wasn't going to result in a tuddie, then...meh.

O.city · 10-17-2023, 12:04 PM

Mahomes holds it, then decides to toss one up to......Moore on a scramble back shoulder type thing in the endzone.

So he trusts him to be physically able to do that but not catch a lasso route and outrun a guy to the sideline?

09-07-2023, 09:08 PM
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-200000 VARSITY	**Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread** They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.
Posts: 23,455

10-17-2023, 11:53 AM	#4486
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2095047	I'm just not seeing a spot in this offense for Moore. It sucks but it is what it is. Rice is better from the slot in the Juju role. Watson and MVS can run deep and intermediate routes. Toney is faster and more elusive. What does Moore bring to the table that other WRs don't have?
Posts: 92,316

10-17-2023, 12:01 PM	#4496
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-525936	It looks like cover 2 with both safeties driving on Kelce and Rice being the back side post. It's kinda weird that the both are pretty close there, spacing looks off. I'm going to guess, once the safeties drive, ball needs to go outside there.
Posts: 84,153

10-17-2023, 12:04 PM	#4500
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-525936	Mahomes holds it, then decides to toss one up to......Moore on a scramble back shoulder type thing in the endzone. So he trusts him to be physically able to do that but not catch a lasso route and outrun a guy to the sideline?
Posts: 84,153