Chiefs Glenn Dorsey: From Tradable Asset To Key To The Defense - Page 3

T-post Tom · 08-08-2009, 12:15 AM

A few months ago, when Scott Pioli and the Chiefs first decided they would run the 3-4 defense this year, Glenn Dorsey seemed destined for one of two things: a trade, or failure.

Dorsey's skill set and body type just do not fit what most people think about typical 3-4 defensive lineman; he is not heavy or squat enough to play nose tackle, and he is not tall and athletic enough to play defensive end.

3-4 linemen are supposed to take up blocks and let the linebackers do the work, not penetrate and blow things up in the backfield, and that is exactly what Dorsey is best at doing.

We weren't the only one's who made this connection—that Dorsey's unique skill set would go to waste in the 3-4—the Chiefs realized this too, and made adjustments.

“A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap."

"There's a place for me on this defense."

So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis.

Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle.

Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent.

Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time.
With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard. Dorsey left one-on-one with a guard is a match up I will take any day of the week.

This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the defenses, but will apply pressure on the quarterback's blindside from two different positions, causing even more chaos.

Getting this kind of pressure from a defensive end in a 3-4(ish) scheme is very unique, and is sure to cause confusion for the opposing offensive line. Only the Cardinals have run this scheme before, and is still very new to the NFL.

Hopefully the Chiefs will be able to exploit this new fad to the fullest, much like the "Wildcat" formation has done thus far.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...fense#comments

Sully · 08-08-2009, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

This article was written by TJ Gerrity. Never heard of him so I wonder if he's basing this off a Chiefs camp report from someone or if he's at camp? Or is he just assuming the Chiefs will run the same D Zona did? Maybe someone at camp can tell us how Dorsey is lining up when he's on the field.

PhilFree

I was up there several days last week, and that is what they are running. It's still 1-gap, meaning very little changes for the linemen and their responsibilities.

philfree · 08-08-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

I was up there several days last week, and that is what they are running. It's still 1-gap, meaning very little changes for the linemen and their responsibilities.

Cool and thanks!

PhilFree

TRR · 08-08-2009, 08:21 AM

Vrabel and Hali have recently switched spots in the 3-4. Vrabel is now over the Left Tackle, and Hali is over the Right Tackle
Posted via Mobile Device

philfree · 08-08-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRR

Vrabel and Hali have recently switched spots in the 3-4. Vrabel is now over the Left Tackle, and Hali is over the Right Tackle
Posted via Mobile Device

You've been giving some good tidbits of info, TRR. Thanks! Here's a question for you. Is the ROLB lining up way wide so the LT has a harder time getting to him to block him? I think that's a trait of a 4-3 under type of D.

PhilFree

TRR · 08-08-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

You've been giving some good tidbits of info, TRR. Thanks! Here's a question for you. Is the ROLB lining up way wide so the LT has a harder time getting to him to block him? I think that's a trait of a 4-3 under type of D.

PhilFree

Pendergast moves both OLB's around. I've seen both Vrabel and Hali line up right over the tackle, I've seen them line up wide, and I've seen them line up inside the DE even...

They move around quite a bit. More often than not though, I would say both Hali and Vrabel line up rather wide outside both O Tackles.
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BigChiefFan · 08-08-2009, 09:49 AM

Dorsey's too talented not to make a solid contribution to our line. He'll be just fine.

BigVE · 08-08-2009, 09:57 AM

I think Dorsey will be ok but I still wouldn't expect big sack numbers from his position. What worries me more is what Rausch mentioned....Tamba struggled when he was on an island against left tackles in the past, why do they expect it to be any different now?

BigChiefFan · 08-08-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVE

I think Dorsey will be ok but I still wouldn't expect big sack numbers from his position. What worries me more is what Rausch mentioned....Tamba struggled when he was on an island against left tackles in the past, why do they expect it to be any different now?

Dorsey's alot stouter than Hali, for one. Dorsey is close to 300 lbs.

milkman · 08-08-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefFan

Dorsey's alot stouter than Hali, for one. Dorsey is close to 300 lbs.

I believe his question was why we would think that Hali is going to fare any better against the LT as a rushbacker than he did as a RDE?

BigVE · 08-08-2009, 10:05 AM

QUOTE:"Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle.

Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent.

Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time.
With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard."

What does Dorsey being 300lbs have to do with the fact that Hali is still left on an island against the LT?

aturnis · 08-08-2009, 10:06 AM

I guess I thought the D would look something like this...

Jackson, Tank/Edwards, Dorsey/McGee
Hali, D. Johnson, Thomas, Vrabel

Am I wrong?

BigVE · 08-08-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

I guess I thought the D would look something like this...

Jackson, Tank/Edwards, Dorsey/McGee
Hali, D. Johnson, Thomas, Vrabel

Am I wrong?

Your wrong and your right...it sounds like we will be running a hybrid sort half 3-4 and half 4-3 with supposedly unpredictable personnel changes and matchups. Hopefully it will work and cause some confusion for a while.

Mr. Krab · 08-08-2009, 11:09 AM

I don't know how many times i've said this. Maybe somebody will actually listen now that is written in an "official" article.

TheGuardian · 08-08-2009, 11:19 AM

Same here krab. But in this very thread you still have numb nuts acting as if it went right over there head.

And Tamba is lining up outside of the right tackle I believe. And Tamba had an off year last year, that's not uncommon. People writing the guy off after having two very solid seasons, both his first two in the league, need their head examined.

BigChiefFan · 08-08-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I believe his question was why we would think that Hali is going to fare any better against the LT as a rushbacker than he did as a RDE?

Cool, I wasn't clear on it, but the point still stands, that HALI, will have help ahead of him, helping free him up.

08-08-2009, 12:15 AM
T-post Tom Busy in a Kohl's restroom Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $1967293	Glenn Dorsey: From Tradable Asset To Key To The Defense A few months ago, when Scott Pioli and the Chiefs first decided they would run the 3-4 defense this year, Glenn Dorsey seemed destined for one of two things: a trade, or failure. Dorsey's skill set and body type just do not fit what most people think about typical 3-4 defensive lineman; he is not heavy or squat enough to play nose tackle, and he is not tall and athletic enough to play defensive end. 3-4 linemen are supposed to take up blocks and let the linebackers do the work, not penetrate and blow things up in the backfield, and that is exactly what Dorsey is best at doing. We weren't the only one's who made this connection—that Dorsey's unique skill set would go to waste in the 3-4—the Chiefs realized this too, and made adjustments. “A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap." "There's a place for me on this defense." So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis. Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle. Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent. Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time. With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard. Dorsey left one-on-one with a guard is a match up I will take any day of the week. This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the defenses, but will apply pressure on the quarterback's blindside from two different positions, causing even more chaos. Getting this kind of pressure from a defensive end in a 3-4(ish) scheme is very unique, and is sure to cause confusion for the opposing offensive line. Only the Cardinals have run this scheme before, and is still very new to the NFL. Hopefully the Chiefs will be able to exploit this new fad to the fullest, much like the "Wildcat" formation has done thus far. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...fense#comments
Posts: 22,258

08-08-2009, 08:21 AM	#33
TRR The Priest and I Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CO Casino cash: $9510185	Vrabel and Hali have recently switched spots in the 3-4. Vrabel is now over the Left Tackle, and Hali is over the Right Tackle Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 7,345

08-08-2009, 09:49 AM	#36
BigChiefFan MVP Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: In the Top 10 Casino cash: $9924205	Dorsey's too talented not to make a solid contribution to our line. He'll be just fine. __________________ A 35 year drought can make you thirsty.
Posts: 15,777

08-08-2009, 09:57 AM	#37
BigVE Veteran Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: centralKs Casino cash: $10005250	I think Dorsey will be ok but I still wouldn't expect big sack numbers from his position. What worries me more is what Rausch mentioned....Tamba struggled when he was on an island against left tackles in the past, why do they expect it to be any different now? __________________ Meh.
Posts: 4,829

08-08-2009, 10:05 AM	#40
BigVE Veteran Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: centralKs Casino cash: $10005250	QUOTE:"Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle. Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent. Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time. With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard." What does Dorsey being 300lbs have to do with the fact that Hali is still left on an island against the LT? __________________ Meh.
Posts: 4,829

08-08-2009, 10:06 AM	#41
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	I guess I thought the D would look something like this... Jackson, Tank/Edwards, Dorsey/McGee Hali, D. Johnson, Thomas, Vrabel Am I wrong?
Posts: 13,873

08-08-2009, 11:09 AM	#43
Mr. Krab Big Red Nuts Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $10004900	I don't know how many times i've said this. Maybe somebody will actually listen now that is written in an "official" article.
Posts: 3,512

08-08-2009, 11:19 AM	#44
TheGuardian MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $6355299	Same here krab. But in this very thread you still have numb nuts acting as if it went right over there head. And Tamba is lining up outside of the right tackle I believe. And Tamba had an off year last year, that's not uncommon. People writing the guy off after having two very solid seasons, both his first two in the league, need their head examined.
Posts: 9,559