Investing megathread extravaganza

[DaFace]

A place to talk about investing stuff.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by RunKC

You think it will get to the bottom again? Why is that?

We already know the virus is there for months and we also know earnings won’t be good, so what am I missing?

There are a lot of things the market could respond negatively to. The thing about it is that it isn't necessarily if the fundamental factors that we're watching get worse week over week or not, it's the trades Expectations aren't meant. For instance, if the trade expects unemployment to go to 12% and it goes to 15%, you're on the couch saying it went from like 2 to 12. WTF is the difference, you silly ****s? The difference is there is something unexpected and they pulled the 'chute.

I think a lot will spin on unemployment. But I'm guessing some traders are expecting a bailout for some major industries. Banks having liquidity problems like in 08 would **** the market's soul. The Russian/Saudi Oil war is pretty ****ing catastrophic and if it isn't resolved fairly soon, I could see that dragging the market down further.

I'm sure there are a myriad of shit that I have no freaking clue about that traders are watching and willing to pivot on.

[shitgoose]

Trump and the Fed gonna keep things fairly well propped up through November. After that it's anyone's guess

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by RunKC

You think it will get to the bottom again? Why is that?

We already know the virus is there for months and we also know earnings won’t be good, so what am I missing?

Is the great coronavirus bear market of 2020 now history? Many exuberant bulls would have you believe that it is, since the S&P 500 SPX, +1.44% is now more than 20% higher than its mid-March low. That satisfies the semi-official definition of a bull market.

So in that narrow sense, the bulls are right. But in a broader sense, I consider their arguments to be a triumph of hope over experience. If by definition we’re in a new bull market, the question we should be asking is different: Will the stock market hit a new low later this year, lower than where it stood at the March low?

I’m convinced the answer is “yes.” My study of past bear markets revealed a number of themes, each of which points to the March low being broken in coming weeks or months.

While the market’s rally since its March 23 low has been explosive, it’s not unprecedented. Since the Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, +1.22% was created in the late 1800s, there have been 38 other occasions where it rallied just as much (or more) in just as short a period — and all of them occurred during the Great Depression.

Such ominous parallels are a powerful reminder that the market can explode upward during the context of a devastating long-term decline. Consider the bull- and bear-market calendar maintained by Ned Davis Research. According to it, there were no fewer than six bull markets between the 1929 stock market crash and the end of the 1930s. I doubt an investor interviewed in 1939 about his experience of the Great Depression would have highlighted those bull markets.

Another way of making the same point is to measure the number of days between the end of the bear market’s first leg down and its eventual end. There are 11 bear markets in the Ned Davis calendar in which the Dow fell by more than the 37.1% loss it incurred between its February 2020 high to its March low. On average across those 11, as you can see from the chart below, the final bear market low came 137 days after first registering such a loss. If we add that average to the day of the March low, we come up with a projected low on Aug. 7.

More bearishness needed
Sentiment also points to a lower low for the U.S. market. That’s because the usual pattern is for the final bear-market bottom to be accompanied by thoroughgoing pessimism and despair. That’s not what we’ve seen over the last couple of weeks. In fact, just the opposite is evident — eagerness to declare that the worst is now behind us.

Another way of putting this: When the bear market does finally hit its low, you are unlikely to even be asking whether the bear has breathed his last. You’re more likely at that point to have given up on equities altogether, throwing in the towel and cautioning anyone who would listen that any rally attempt is nothing but a bear-market trap to lure gullible bulls.

I compared sentiment during the recent bear market to that of other bear markets of the past 40 years in a Wall Street Journal column earlier this week. For the most part, the market timers I monitor were more scared at the lows of those prior bear markets than they have been recently. That’s very revealing.

Volatility offers clues
A similar conclusion is reached when we focus on the CBOE’s Volatility Index, or VIX VIX, -3.87% . An analysis of all bear markets since 1990 shows that the VIX almost always hits its high well before the bear market registers its final low. The only two exceptions came after the 9-11 terrorist attacks and at the end of the two-month bear market in 1998 that accompanied the bankruptcy of Long Term Capital Management. In those two cases, the VIX’s high came on the same day of the bear market’s low.

Other than those two exceptions, the average lead time of the VIX’s peak to the bear market low was 90 days. Add that to the day on which the VIX hit its peak (Mar. 16) and you get a projected low on Jun. 14.

One way of summing up these historical precedents: We should expect a retest of the market’s March low. In fact, according to an analysis conducted by Ned Davis Research, 70% of the time over the past century the Dow has broken below the lows hit at the bottom of any waterfall decline.

In truth, there’s no universal definition of a “waterfall decline.” The authors of the Ned Davis study, Ed Clissold, Chief U.S. Strategist, and Thanh Nguyen, Senior Quantitative Analyst, defined it as “persistent selling over multiple weeks, no more than two up days in a row, a surge in volume, and a collapse in investor confidence.” That certainly seems reasonable, and the market’s free-fall from its February high to its March low surely satisfies these criteria.

Upon studying past declines that also satisfied these criteria, the analysts wrote: “The temptation [at the end of a waterfall decline] is to breathe a sigh of relief that the waterfall is over and jump back into the market. History suggests that a more likely scenario is a basing and testing period that includes a breaching of the waterfall lows.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/st...-it-2020-04-09

[mililo4cpa]

damn...I got blasted for airlines at rock bottom....but cruise lines, full steam ahead.

I'm joking....I think there's a lot of value out there across all sectors.

[Buehler445]

Hey man, your guy here offered some cynicism towards those trades.

[eDave]

https://www.reddit.com/r/GirlsGoneBitcoin/

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by DJJasonp

Wouldnt this decrease demand for mortgages (and therefore, keep rates same or lower)?

Mix in the tremendous amount of people who have lost their jobs - and the market for people who can qualify for a loan has drastically decreased over the past few weeks.......

JPMorgan Chase, the country’s largest lender by assets, is raising borrowing standards this week for most new home loans as the bank moves to mitigate lending risk stemming from the novel coronavirus disruption.

From Tuesday, customers applying for a new mortgage will need a credit score of at least 700, and will be required to make a down payment equal to 20% of the home’s value.

The change highlights how banks are quickly shifting gears to respond to the darkening U.S. economic outlook and stress in the housing market, after measures to contain the virus put 16 million people out of work and plunged the country into recession.


Source

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

JPMorgan Chase, the country’s largest lender by assets, is raising borrowing standards this week for most new home loans as the bank moves to mitigate lending risk stemming from the novel coronavirus disruption.

From Tuesday, customers applying for a new mortgage will need a credit score of at least 700, and will be required to make a down payment equal to 20% of the home’s value.

The change highlights how banks are quickly shifting gears to respond to the darkening U.S. economic outlook and stress in the housing market, after measures to contain the virus put 16 million people out of work and plunged the country into recession.


Source

It’s been awhile since I’ve been too involved in credit scores, how many people is that going to exempt?

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It’s been awhile since I’ve been too involved in credit scores, how many people is that going to exempt?

The average American does not have above a 700 FICO score.

[Buehler445]

Nice

[O.city]

Would that theoretically drive the price of homes down?

[shitgoose]

Originally Posted by O.city

Would that theoretically drive the price of homes down?

Yes. Fewer qualified buyers will reduce demand.

[lewdog]

Does my 805 credit score get me a discount?

#R8ers

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by O.city

Would that theoretically drive the price of homes down?

You're fighting decades of data that says no in terms of real prices but theoretically yes.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Who bought oil??? Gonna be rewarded this week it appears. Everybody is slashing oil production to get prices back to $40 a barrel.

When it tanked I borrowed 10K from my LOC and threw it at USO

I knew the cure for $25 oil was $25 oil.