*****The Patrick Mahomes Thread*****

[Dante84]

IT ****ING HAPPENED



OP UPDATE:

Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

How many times did Brady not make the pro bowl when he led the league in wins and was the number 1 seed?

Mahomes has had a down year but his stats are pretty much the same as 2023.

Is there an argument that he's been 'better' than Allen, Jackson and Burrow, though?

Unless you're going purely on QB Wins, those guys have all been better than him this year.

The real issue, such as it is, is all the credit Allen got in that mid-season stretch just superseded the fact that he was pretty damn ordinary for the first 1/3 of the season or so. Strictly as a passer, I wouldn't say he's been notably better than Mahomes. So you could argue that the wins should mean enough to put Mahomes ahead of him.

But Allen did beat Mahomes head to head. So it's hard to make W/L a dispositive argument in favor of PM. And honestly to even get to that point you'd have to ignore the 500 yards and 12 touchdowns that Allen has contributed on the ground.

I just don't see much grounds for complaint here. I mean if Stroud got in over him or something I'd be riled up. But I don't think there's a great argument that Burrow, Jackson and Allen haven't been better than Mahomes this season.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

How many times did Brady not make the pro bowl when he led the league in wins and was the number 1 seed?

Mahomes has had a down year but his stats are pretty much the same as 2023.

Brady sat out the Pro Bowls after a certain point in his career. Of course those were after the Super Bowl in those days.

[Nirvana58]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Is there an argument that he's been 'better' than Allen, Jackson and Burrow, though?

Unless you're going purely on QB Wins, those guys have all been better than him this year.

The real issue, such as it is, is all the credit Allen got in that mid-season stretch just superseded the fact that he was pretty damn ordinary for the first 1/3 of the season or so. Strictly as a passer, I wouldn't say he's been notably better than Mahomes. So you could argue that the wins should mean enough to put Mahomes ahead of him.

But Allen did beat Mahomes head to head. So it's hard to make W/L a dispositive argument in favor of PM. And honestly to even get to that point you'd have to ignore the 500 yards and 12 touchdowns that Allen has contributed on the ground.

I just don't see much grounds for complaint here. I mean if Stroud got in over him or something I'd be riled up. But I don't think there's a great argument that Burrow, Jackson and Allen haven't been better than Mahomes this season.

Mahomes lost his top 2 wide receivers and had a dumpster fire for left tackle all season.

He still won the most games of all those quarterbacks. With a defense that everyone agrees regressed from last year.

He did this by putting up the same stats as 2023 with the exception of winning with the most 4th quarter game winning comeback drives this season.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't think Brady's had nearly this kind of competition. Make no mistake, I believe mahomes is better than those guys by a wide margin. But even his biggest of fans know that he had a down year and this year was more because of him, and not his terrible WRs. While the rest of the guys all put up career years. I don't think there's a good argument for knocking anyone off the list this year.

I guess this deep into a generational run ive become less concerned with paper accomplishments. Even if it's just a slight nudge for mahomes to become petty mahomes, I'll take that over this meaningless spot. I think if he played the full season like he has the past few weeks, he'd be the MVP let alone pro bowl. And I'll gladly take that momentum into the playoffs

“Because of him.” I blame the Left Tackle situation for some of it. Force those other QB’s to play behind 4 different guys at Left Tackle in one year and their numbers would not look so pretty. That being said, Mahomes still managed a 68/100 QBR this season. Lamar Jackson won MVP last year with a 65/100 QBR, which is funny.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

Mahomes lost his top 2 wide receivers and had a dumpster fire for left tackle all season.

He still won the most games of all those quarterbacks. With a defense that everyone agrees regressed from last year.

He did this by putting up the same stats as 2023 with the exception of winning with the most 4th quarter game winning comeback drives this season.

That should be a big factor in the MVP vote IMO. Against all odds he manufactured win after win all season long. Those other QBs don't do that.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

Mahomes lost his top 2 wide receivers and had a dumpster fire for left tackle all season.

He still won the most games of all those quarterbacks. With a defense that everyone agrees regressed from last year.

He did this by putting up the same stats as 2023 with the exception of winning with the most 4th quarter game winning comeback drives this season.

You keep referencing 2023 though, that wasn't an MVP caliber year either.

[Nirvana58]

Originally Posted by O.city

You keep referencing 2023 though, that wasn't an MVP caliber year either.

We aren't talking about MVP. We are taking about pro bowls. Which Mahomes made the pro bowl in 2023.

We won the super bowl and Mahomes went in and beat the so called best of the best quarterbacks in their own house on the way to it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

We aren't talking about MVP. We are taking about pro bowls. Which Mahomes made the pro bowl in 2023.

We won the super bowl and Mahomes went in and beat the so called best of the best quarterbacks in their own house on the way to it.

Yes, but the current 3 above him ARE having MVP caliber years.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Nirvana58

We aren't talking about MVP. We are taking about pro bowls. Which Mahomes made the pro bowl in 2023.

We won the super bowl and Mahomes went in and beat the so called best of the best quarterbacks in their own house on the way to it.

Burrow having a much better (healthier) season in 2024 compared to 2023. There’s only 3 spots, so it makes sense for it to be Allen, Burrow, & Jackson based on traditional stats and the QBR metric.

[Deberg_1990]

How Patrick Mahomes is reacting to this exciting news

[kcgizmo]

I am calling bull$hit on the NFL and this Pro Bowl stub.

You can give me all the numbers you want. Doesn't pass the eye test.

The fact is Patrick Mahomes is, the face of the NFL, the fact is, he played the toughest schedule this year, with less then the others.

The fact is every team is this league would take this guy before any other QB out there.

I thought the Pro Bowl selection was about being the best, and the Fact is he is the BEST.

I guess I got a little emotional on this one, or just pi$$ed off.

[FloridaMan88]

Without the Pro Bowl, they’d have nothing to celebrate in places like Baltimore, Cincinnati, and Buffalo.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DRM08

“Because of him.” I blame the Left Tackle situation for some of it. Force those other QB’s to play behind 4 different guys at Left Tackle in one year and their numbers would not look so pretty. That being said, Mahomes still managed a 68/100 QBR this season. Lamar Jackson won MVP last year with a 65/100 QBR, which is funny.

Yeah, just to be clear, we are talking about mahomes not playing to a very very high bar he set for himself. We're talking about 3 guys who are having career years where our guy is having a down year... By his standards.

I've become so comfortable that his legacy is cemented that it doesn't bother me as much. I know when he wins the MVP again and makes every pro bowl it will be because of a season that is vintage mahomes, not the kind this year that's scraping more than we're used to. But for this mostly meaningless achievement, eh... Whatever, let them have it. Mahomes has enough accolades and doesn't need this anymore to prove his greatness

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by philfree

That should be a big factor in the MVP vote IMO. Against all odds he manufactured win after win all season long. Those other QBs don't do that.

I don't actually disagree.

I think in the MVP voting, that should carry a ton of weight.

I think the Pro Bowl is something different. The Pro Bowl is a single-season snapshot of who went out there and produced/played at the highest level.

I mean there are RBs out there running behind shit lines who put up no production because they have bad QBs and bad OLs and so defenses sell out to bottle them up. We don't give them any rope for the Pro Bowl because in the end, Pro Bowls are do or do not. You produced or you didn't. The why of it really shouldn't matter much.

I think Pat should get FAR more MVP consideration than he's going to get (though I'm not sure I'd choose him as the winner) because despite all the shit he's put up with, he's had his team winning games. But I don't think that means he has a better Pro Bowl case than any of those 3 players.

Those guys simply outproduced him and by a fair bit. What happened in 2023 is completely irrelevant to a review of the 2024 Pro Bowl nods.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yeah, just to be clear, we are talking about mahomes not playing to a very very high bar he set for himself. We're talking about 3 guys who are having career years where our guy is having a down year... By his standards.

I've become so comfortable that his legacy is cemented that it doesn't bother me as much. I know when he wins the MVP again and makes every pro bowl it will be because of a season that is vintage mahomes, not the kind this year that's scraping more than we're used to. But for this mostly meaningless achievement, eh... Whatever, let them have it. Mahomes has enough accolades and doesn't need this anymore to prove his greatness

I mean here's the real answer to all this -- if he makes it to the Super Bowl, he wasn't going to be in the Pro Bowl anyway.

If he DOESN'T make it to the Super Bowl, one of those 3 QBs is going to. And he's going to be the alternate that gets the nod in their place.

It really doesn't matter a bit.

But if it's one more bit of motivation for him, I'm all for it.