***Official Soccer Thread***

[POND_OF_RED]

Creating a new thread for soccer discussion since the Euro’s are done.

Most leagues are in preseason and Sporting KC are currently in a battle for the best record in the league to win the shield. We just sent Busio who’s a young Sporting youth academy player and possible future American star to Venezia to compete in the top division in Italy for a 6.5 million dollar transfer fee with up to $11 million with incentives and a 20% future sell-on rate if they sell him to another team. Not to mention another past youth academy player from Lee’s Summit and another possible World Cup starter Erik Palmer-Brown looks to be joining him at Venezia soon as well. If you’re looking for an Italian team to start rooting for with your new Paramount+ subscription they would be a good candidate with some local flavor.

The U.S has built a little power shift in the CONCACAF region with their wins over Mexico lately in Nations and Gold Cup finals and look to be in really good shape heading into the World Cup qualifiers next month.

Messi looks to be on the move as well. Let’s hope it’s not a worthless one to PSG for everyone’s sake.

Ok, CP feel free to remind me how gay soccer is now. Don’t care. Sporting is kicking ass and so is the USA. It’s a good time to be following along. Discuss…

Spoiler!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

You said it yourself: Women's soccer needs help. It's not just a marketing thing. Women obviously aren't supporting the sport in large enough numbers. If they were, the revenue generated by the men's and women's teams would be comparable.



And those inferior sports/athletes generally don't bring in as much revenue as their superior counterparts.

Sure but that's different from saying nobody watches it. Premier league will always be vastly superior to mls which will be superior to nwsl. That's a given. Of course it's crazy to ever believe revenue streams will ever be remotely comparable.

Equal pay on the surface is a crazy idea. But it's also not that simple. Growing women's soccer is good for both men and women, and now they get to jointly share in that growth. It brings in a lot of new fans and sponsors that are unique to women's instead of mens, and as the game grows it brings in more revenue to close the gap. The US is also a unique situation where the women (this year as an exception, of course) close the gap substantially when they play into the semis/finals where the men are typically bubble qualifiers. Men probably still deserve more pay but they are probabky on board with the idea that a strong men and women's sport is good for everyone.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Woogieman

The money will improve and slowly but surely, global talent will come at younger and younger ages and a Top 8-10 league in the world is very realistic in the next decade.

I don't believe that, simply because there's nothing that can rival the academy system and all the rest of the development structure that you see in Europe. There is a reason why there are no great American players and that Americans are virtually absent from top professional leagues. The player development structure still isn't there.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

The draw of watching men's soccer is to see the skill of world class players.

The skills of women are not even remotely close. The same problem with women's basketball.

That's not to say women sports can't be marketable. There's a reason why women's tennis has equal interest to men's tennis and why women's figure skating is more popular than the men's. Women fights are also popular in the UFC because a fight is a fight.

Really, it's the same as comparing MLS to other top professional leagues. I follow the Premier League avidly and watch every one of my club's matches and many others. I pay the subscriptions, I listen to the podcasts, I love the game. But there's an MLS team in the city where I live and I can't muster any interest because the level of play is so much lower. It's not quite like watching the XFL, but kind of.

I don't see men avidly following NWSL for that reason, but half the country is female and you would expect there to be no trouble selling out a 10,000 seat venue night after night if women supported the women's game the way men support the men's game.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Razaele

I don't believe that, simply because there's nothing that can rival the academy system and all the rest of the development structure that you see in Europe. There is a reason why there are no great American players and that Americans are virtually absent from top professional leagues. The player development structure still isn't there.

Yeah I agree. Europeans recruit soccer the way we do basketball and football. We can identify talent practically right out of the womb. It will always be a challenge especially considering how aggressive recruiters are in picking off the best athletes. I think US men's can still get better but we're probably starting to hit our growth maturity.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Razaele

Really, it's the same as comparing MLS to other top professional leagues. I follow the Premier League avidly and watch every one of my club's matches and many others. I pay the subscriptions, I listen to the podcasts, I love the game. But there's an MLS team in the city where I live and I can't muster any interest because the level of play is so much lower. It's not quite like watching the XFL, but kind of.

I don't see men avidly following NWSL for that reason, but half the country is female and you would expect there to be no trouble selling out a 10,000 seat venue night after night if women supported the women's game the way men support the men's game.

I think you get a professional minor league experience. A lot of it is built around the experience. Great place to watch games in nice stadiums, sing chants, awesome for kids and meeting people. 20k-30k per game is very healthy and it's probably all they really need

[LoneWolf]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Sure but that's different from saying nobody watches it. Premier league will always be vastly superior to mls which will be superior to nwsl. That's a given. Of course it's crazy to ever believe revenue streams will ever be remotely comparable.

Equal pay on the surface is a crazy idea. But it's also not that simple. Growing women's soccer is good for both men and women, and now they get to jointly share in that growth. It brings in a lot of new fans and sponsors that are unique to women's instead of mens, and as the game grows it brings in more revenue to close the gap. The US is also a unique situation where the women (this year as an exception, of course) close the gap substantially when they play into the semis/finals where the men are typically bubble qualifiers. Men probably still deserve more pay but they are probabky on board with the idea that a strong men and women's sport is good for everyone.

JFC, zilla. Do you have a word quota you have to hit today or what? Every post in this thread from you is a couple paragraph novella. Just say "I love women's soccer and sports bras" and be done with it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

JFC, zilla. Do you have a word quota you have to hit today or what? Every post in this thread from you is a couple paragraph novella. Just say "I love women's soccer and sports bras" and be done with it.

I think it's a complicated topic and most of the people have been engaged in good debate. If you don't like it you can ignore it.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That's fair that pro league games will be slow to catch on. Nationalism is easier. But without a doubt that has boomed over the past few cups. We can see it in the quality of the teams, the players, and the attendance and ratings. But you can't just footnote the success of these more nationalist matches. It shows the support is there but it just hasn't yet trickled down.

That will take time. Way better talent has emerged recently which leads to more superstars and better quality of play. Better players and pay will improve development leagues as kids aspire to professional careers. More marketable names on the national stage will trickle down support to champions leagues and ultimately club level. So many of these comments about giving up and saying people just won't accept inferior women's soccer are similar to what we heard about MLS. A vastly inferior product vs international leagues. Americans will never accept soccer. They've proven everyone wrong. But it required decades effort and those efforts on the national level are brand new for many counties and on the club level for the US. It takes infrastructure, stadium experiences, years of marketing and TV deals. It's not like the wnba where the effort has been there but it has not correlated with any success. Here the effort was not there but it's undeniable that once they started putting the effort in there have been sizeable gains.

I don't think national level success shows latent potential support for club level necessarily. There's plenty of sports where the national level is the cash cow. But I do agree it COULD be there and it will take time. My only point is that right now, it's not there and the best chance of it growing is not only marketing and investment it's women putting their money where their mouth is.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I don't think national level success shows latent potential support for club level necessarily. There's plenty of sports where the national level is the cash cow. But I do agree it COULD be there and it will take time. My only point is that right now, it's not there and the best chance of it growing is not only marketing and investment it's women putting their money where their mouth is.

Yeah, that's fair

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by Razaele

MLS has a decidedly minor league feel, but there's nowhere near the money that there is Europe, unless you're one of these gray haired superstars on a retirement tour.

But the league has stuck around for almost 30 years old now, and the teams play in better stadiums than comparable teams in other leagues... the third tier in England or whatever. It's doing OK for what it is.

The level of play won't improve until the money improves, but with changing demographics in the US the money could improve over time.

This is sort of a lazy take IMO because it has done just that.

Year after year the level of play and money get better I am not sure what else you can ask about a league that started in 1996 and really got serious around 2009. I think the level of play is most comparable to the English Championship. Other leagues are ID'ing great players in MLS and those players are starting to move up in the world with the transfer fees to match.

They have tried to get bigger cautiously though. I think the ghosts of the Cosmos still echo in the halls of MLS HQ. The machinations for teams to spend money though not so much the balance totally keels over are changing every year.

I don't think the Top 10 league thing is that crazy especially because of the large fall off you get if you move beyond England, Germany, France, Spain, Italy...the leagues beyond that? There is room to say you can start to compete with them.

You see it in competition as well an MLS CONCACAF Champion and right now in Leagues Cup you see MLS having lots of success against Liga MX teams its been pretty fun.

And hey I am an MLS fan I see first hand ways in which they fall short but sometimes when people cast the situation they are in it feels pretty unfair or based on old first impressions that don't really hold as much.

[|Zach|]

The top 10 league thing is interesting. I think current MLS stacks up well against the likes of Brasileirao in Brazil, Argentine Primera, Liga MX, Eredivisie, Ukrainian Premier League, Portugal etc...

Some of those leagues have a team or two at the top which are hard to catch up with prestige\talent\money wise like Ajax but if you are putting two leagues top to bottom MLS play wise and look at attendance and attention MLS does just fine in that mix.

[GloryDayz]

At least one of the other national players hit the nail on the head today, paraphrasing here, but the one lady said the USNWT should have backed up all the pre-tournament talk on the pitch.

Very well said. Thang God the queen freak is gone...

[Al Czervik]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

At least one of the other national players hit the nail on the head today, paraphrasing here, but the one lady said the USNWT should have backed up all the pre-tournament talk on the pitch.

Very well said. Thang God the queen freak is gone...

Poetic Justice.....This is like watching the Yankees lose in the playoffs.....
Glorious....

[CatinKS]

Why, Why, a soccer post on a "TRUE FOOTBALL MESSAGE BOARD." Go to Europe if you wish to dribble on this sport. I understand most of the world luvs it, but it boring, boring, boring.

[|Zach|]

Originally Posted by CatinKS

Why, Why, a soccer post on a "TRUE FOOTBALL MESSAGE BOARD." Go to Europe if you wish to dribble on this sport. I understand most of the world luvs it, but it boring, boring, boring.

Stay mad about it.