Let's Talk About Nagy's Playcalling

[Bowser]

I think we can all agree that our offense has been "off" all season, minus the Bears and Chargers games. Mahomes hasn't looked himself by and large, and that could well be because of the talent around him, but watching the plays unfold just makes me wonder why some of the plays are being called in the first place.

Today was an abomination on many fronts with the offense but it sure looked a good deal like an Alex Smith game plan, minus Mahomes' patented making something out of nothing scramble drill passes. The run plays were predictable and getting nothing, but they kept forcing them. We threw the ball laterally as much as horizontally (seemingly), and the plays themselves just look, well, off.

Is it Nagy, is it Mahomes, is it the talent outside of Mahomes and Kelce, or is it a combination of all that? Or was this game just an outlier and our annual piss down our legs game as has been suggested, and I'm just OMG-ing for no good reason?

Something FEELS different than in the past so far this season. I would love to put my finger on what it is, precisely.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Cannot believe people actually believe this stuff

Andy runs this team. He has more than 50% say what this offense does. You are insane if you think Andy isn’t deciding game planning and play calls.

So Nagy is just there for vibes? Why complain about people wanting him replaced then? At worst nothing would change right?

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I don’t think Nagy is actually calling the plays during the game. I think it’s more likely that Andy calls the plays on the field during the game. After watching a podcast with McVay Last season, it came out that during Liam Cohen’s last stint with the Rams when he was the offensive coordinator, his actual responsibilities were to come up with the game plan and do the install, but it was actually McVay that called the plays during the game.

And based on what we’ve been seeing on the field for a few years now between Peterson, bienemy, and now Nagy, this seems to be more likely than anything else. Just my two cents.

What I have said before is whatever EB brought, it's clear to me that he was better, much better, at attacking opposing defenses and choosing plays that exploited their weaknesses.

Now, there is almost no rhyme or reason to the plays, the play calls, nothing gets set up, etc. I feel like Nagy just picks plays based on what a kid who has never played Madden would pick.

And, for the billionth time, running up the middle on 2nd & 10 for little to no gain seems to be the one single play call that is almost guaranteed to happen several times during the game, so stop FN doing it, especially when a team like Denver has stuffed the run all day. It just gives away a down.

[St. Patty's Fire]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Reid had a plethora of success pre Mahomes. He just never won a Championship. Effectively Kyle Shanahan.

their track records really are comparable, and shanahannhas never had a truly elite qb just like reid before mahomes

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by -King-

I know that players and coaches talked about how detail oriented he was when he was coaching and I know that the chiefs are making more mistakes than ever on offense and players are constantly on different pages.

Maybe it's just a big coincidence he left, Nagy became the OC and all of a sudden the offense fell off the face of the earth despite similar talent. Or maybe Patrick forgot how to be an elite QB. Highly doubt that though. But there was a distinct change in the offense after 2022 and Nagy is the most significant of those changes.

It’s undoubtedly a talent issue from an aging old TE to a horrific WR core last year to injuries this year.

A smart person would see what happened when Juju started without Rice this year or Hopkins first game, but we get that you’re a contrarian

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by -King-

I know that players and coaches talked about how detail oriented he was when he was coaching and I know that the chiefs are making more mistakes than ever on offense and players are constantly on different pages.

Maybe it's just a big coincidence he left, Nagy became the OC and all of a sudden the offense fell off the face of the earth despite similar talent. Or maybe Patrick forgot how to be an elite QB. Highly doubt that though. But there was a distinct change in the offense after 2022 and Nagy is the most significant of those changes.

I can see that.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by -King-

Huh? You have primary reads and secondary reads. You don't flat out eliminate routes based on presnap. Defenses disguise the **** out of their coverage these days. What he thinks is going to happen presnap could be 100% different than what actually happens post snap. A corner could also just get beat or fall or **** up somehow leaving a WR open. Even Mahomes acknowledges he has to stop doing that.

Manning/Brady/Warner have all discussed eliminating routes several times in the past based on the presnap read. This is not a new thing or something particular to Mahomes at all. You can go and watch nearly any breakdown by Warner in his QB School archive, and he talks about eliminating routes presnap based on the coverage the defense is showing.

A common one would be when the safeties are showing cover-2 and your outside WR is supposed to run a go- or a corner or a fade. The coverage, according to Warner/Brady/Manning, dictates that the QB is going to cancel that route before the snap in most cases, particularly on 3rd down and long situations, because he knows the rush is coming and he doesn't have time to wait and see if it's really Cover-2 open, not closed, or something else entirely.

So if that was the 1st/2nd read, the QB cancels that one, and switches to the next route as his 1 or 2.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

What I have said before is whatever EB brought, it's clear to me that he was better, much better, at attacking opposing defenses and choosing plays that exploited their weaknesses.

Now, there is almost no rhyme or reason to the plays, the play calls, nothing gets set up, etc. I feel like Nagy just picks plays based on what a kid who has never played Madden would pick.

And, for the billionth time, running up the middle on 2nd & 10 for little to no gain seems to be the one single play call that is almost guaranteed to happen several times during the game, so stop FN doing it, especially when a team like Denver has stuffed the run all day. It just gives away a down.

I mean, maybe EB did bring something else, something better. But let's remember, Andy is still calling the plays during the game. He's the one deciding when to call what plays in whatever order.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by RunKC

It’s undoubtedly a talent issue from an aging old TE to a horrific WR core last year to injuries this year.

A smart person would see what happened when Juju started without Rice this year or Hopkins first game, but we get that you’re a contrarian

My bad. Didn't realize Mahomes needed perfection from the WR position to be good.


And Rice was as good or better than Juju even last year. They just didn't use him like they used Juju.

Does anyone actually think going from Juju/MVS starting to Rice/MVS starting was the difference between being #1 in offensive yards and touchdowns to being middle of the pack? And why that trend continued to this year with Rice/Worthy to start the season?

[htismaqe]

Eric Bienemy is a ****ing stooge. Accomplished literally nothing outside of KC. If it weren't for Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, he would be revered as the guy the bought hookers for recruits at CU. He's a career ****ing loser that lucked into a job with one of the best coaches in history.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Eric Bienemy is a ****ing stooge. Accomplished literally nothing outside of KC. If it weren't for Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, he would be revered as the guy the bought hookers for recruits at CU. He's a career ****ing loser that lucked into a job with one of the best coaches in history.

You are a Legend, but EB has probably forgotten more about football than you ever knew.

That any of us ever knew.

All I know is that since Nagy has officially been the "Offensive Coordinator" our offensive numbers are down, scoring is down, etc. The only thing that didn't change was the winning, and at this point I am certain that Mahomes deserves 70% of the credit for that, and Reid gets the other 30%.

Mahomes and the Chiefs are winning in spite of Nagy and not because of Nagy, and I am 100% positive about that.

[crayzkirk]

I'm sure Nagy is the cause of instant pressure from the LT position. It hasn't been good all year and last week was especially apparent. There were a couple of times where the LT got some help however teams getting pressure without having to get exotic with defensive alignments sure isn't helping the offensive woes.

[BigRedChief]

Andy runs this team. He draws up the plays and calls them on game day.

As long as Andy wants to stay here and run things as he sees fit, everyone will be happy. A good OC coordinator is not needed. We have Andy.

[dlphg9]

Holy shit pages of people arguing about dudes that have nothing to do with what this offense does. Andy has final say on anything and so if he doesn't agree with it, then it's not being done. Who ****ing cares who the OC is? They're not doing anything with Andy Reid as HC.

[ping2000]

Originally Posted by DaFace

Nagy out Pederson in next year?

Only if he gets rid of the visor. Ultra gay.

[kysirsoze]

I know it won't happen but I really hope they go in a new direction once Andy retires. They were smart when they traded Hill to reinvent themselves instead of try to get a Hill replacement and keep things how they were. Same deal with HC. Trying to get an Andy Reid replacement is impossible. Hopefully Nagy goes to NY or somewhere else and in a few years when Reid hangs it up, the Chiefs look to figure out what's next instead of trying to hold on to what's been.