****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****

[Dante84]

More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)

Spoiler!

LET'S GEUAX!#NFLDraft on ESPN/ABC/NFLN pic.twitter.com/2dMSjTR9R9

— Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) April 24, 2020

Congratulations to my son. Mere words can’t explain the joy in my heart and soul. This was an EPIC moment & Well deserved. What GOD has for you ; it’s for you!❤️����
WE ARE CHIEFS ‼️❤️@Clydro_22 @NFL @NFLDraft @LSUfootball @Chiefs @Espn @SECNetwork pic.twitter.com/Pjo2SMLmM9

— Tonge' Helaire (@HelaireTonge) April 25, 2020

�������� pic.twitter.com/9ZnxzAaZ4z

— Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 24, 2020

Some fun here. Edwards-Helaire rushed for 1,415 yards and 16 touchdowns as a junior .. all-purpose yards -- receiving (55 receptions, 453 yards) and kick returner (KEY) 10 returns, 214 yards pic.twitter.com/3Duq1jjy6J

— Harold R. Kuntz (@HaroldRKuntz3) April 24, 2020

Oh look, an extensive film review of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, who I wrote a few days ago is a PERFECT fit for Andy Reid's offense.

Also... @jbbrisco... Oh man. Oh. Man. ��⚡️https://t.co/g6lbNonQ1o

— Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) April 24, 2020

With the 32nd pick, the #Chiefs select Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU

• PFF Big Board #4 RB, #81 Overall

• #1 Run Grade among NCAA RBs (92.0)

• Led SEC RBs in rush yards, receiving yards, rush TDs & YPC

• NFL Comparison: Ray Ricehttps://t.co/eQoKvEmIss#ChiefsKingdom

— PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) April 24, 2020

You got a good one, @chiefs

CLYDRO pic.twitter.com/WyxKVgwTwS

— LSU Football (@LSUfootball) April 24, 2020

Holy offense Bat Man. I love Clyde Edwards-Helaire. He is best Rb in the draft. Watkins and Hill deep. Kelce in the middle. And Edwards-Helaire underneath. Good Luck defenses.

— Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) April 24, 2020

Brett Veach told Andy Reid to watch some Clyde Edwards-Helaire film and told Reid you’ll see Brian Westbrook. Reid watched. Then got back to Veach and said he’s better than Westbrook.

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 24, 2020

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

What was dirty about it?

Crosby didn't leg whip him, he undercut Wylie and Clyde ran into his legs and got taken down by them.

He's absolutely a JAG, IMO. There's just not a ton he genuinely does well. If he improves in pass pro he'll likely have a good career as a 3rd down back but I don't see much else there.

Let me clarify… dirty but well within the rules. Just bringing it up that the blocking seems a bigger cause for the failed run than when we originally thought ceh just shat the bed. Ceh has been good enough in run the clock out situations this year to give him some benefit of a doubt.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Maybe it looked different on television, but that 2nd down run (2nd and 2ish?) on the Chiefs last drive of the game, there was a hole there and CEH got taken down by a guy just falling to the ground, no?

He just didn't get through that hole with any authority and all so it closed up backside on him. Instead he loses has balance because Crosby's foot hit him in the thigh pad. If he hits that hole hard he has a lane to the outside where he can at least get Diablo to half a man and power through him to the sticks.

A quality RB converts that play - it's exactly the difference between a good RB and a fungible one. Clyde is just fungible.

Ok, I’ll have to rewatch. I was just focused on the block on the rewatch.

I still think Clyde has been ok in high leverage situations. When the defense is expecting run you don’t have to ask him to get too creative and he’s way better under center. In general he’s been good at saving himself from losses. He came short on that last one but he also had a few really solid short yardage pickups and he continues to be a decent weapon in the red zone. I think there’s a role for him. But it needs to be much smaller and more situational.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No - 32 in the draft is a 1st round pick. We slide that scale when we find it useful to support an argument. Is 37 basically a first round pick? Oh sure, if that's what we trade for. Or how about 40?

Bryan Cook wasn't 'basically a 3rd round pick' - dude is a second rounder. To whatever extent that matters to you, that's what he was.

A first round pick has a 5th year option. He costs more money. And yes, he comes with expectations - expectations that MEH hasn't met. Moreover, you cite Pacheco - Pacheco was a 7th round pick, so who cares if MEH was 'basically a 2nd round pick' - he's performed to the level of 3rd day guys.

As for his 'familiarity with the team' - McKinnon is a 7 year veteran who's been with the team for a year and a half. He's been through 2 camps with the team and has practiced with them. He also gets key snaps on 3rd downs when Andy is using the most complicated plays he has. Familiarity isn't an issue.

Frank Clark wouldn't be on this roster had we not given up what we gave to acquire him. The organization has a blind spot for him. It seems more and more the case that they have one for Clyde as well. He's just not much of an asset at all.

Okay, if you want to argue semantics, fine, CEH is a first rounder. But you know as well as anyone that guys picked in the 30s aren't seen by most as the same as guys picked in the first 15 or so. It's just how it is. Heck, didn't a lot of draft prognosticators have Clyde going in the 2nd round, or at least not in the first?

Now I get that 1st rders are more expensive and they come with that 5-year option, so yeah, there's that difference.

And while Jerrick is a 7 year vet, he's only had one year in KC. And in KC the Rbs are expected to be able to run every route in a given play, whether it's X, Y, Z, H, whatever. I haven't followed McKinnon's career that closely, but isn't this time with KC the first time he's been asked to do anything like that?

Plus, his injury history. Which I honestly don't know how of that is taken into account by the staff, but it's a fact that Jerrick was played sparingly at times last season. Most of us thought his injury history had some part in that decision last year.

Now, it seems to me that McKinnon has been playing more on 3rd and longs overall this season, which does seem to go back to his increased familiarity with the playbook and the team. And he's looked like the best pass pro RB we have right now. Those considerations feel like the biggest reason he got certain snaps vs. LVR over Pacheco. Or CEH for that matter.

But I'm not Andy, so I'm just guessing.

All BS aside though, CEH isn't ever going to play up to his "first rounder" expectations. He's not going to be the next Marshall Faulk or whatever. He was picked in the first round, so some people are just going to have certain expectations because he was picked on Day 1. Even me, and I've tried to be optimistic about him since he was drafted.

But now he's finally healthy (and playing better than he has since his rookie year), with probably the best OL he's played behind since being drafted, excepting our OTs, and he's still struggling more than anyone would like to see.

Personally, i think he's in his own head too much. I think he's trying to run the plays the way they practice them, the way he's been asked to run them, but when something goes sideways he won't improvise; he tries to stay with the play design even when the blocking has fallen apart.

Look at that run by Jacobs someone posted. That play looks like it was designed to go to the right, but when he feels like the hole isn't there, or maybe he just saw the hole to the left, he instantly takes things into his own hands and breaks it off to his left for a big gain.

I haven't seen CEH improvise like that. maybe he can't. I feel like he has this season to break out and do something that makes him special. But I'm not holding my breath.

[ToxSocks]

Probably the proper way to hash this out woulda been, "yes, he's a 1st rounder technically. No, he wasn't a 1st rounder in terms of 'first round grade' considering Veach seems to have only about 15ish or so guys with a first round grade every year. Which would theoretically make him a 2nd round talent taken in the 1st.

[DJ's left nut]

I haven't held Clyde to 'first rounder' expectations for over a season.

What I want is for him to at least be a positive asset and not a blank on a balance sheet. Give me more than the street free agent who wasn't drawing any interest after 2 waves of FA signings and/or the 7th round flier.

Give me SOMETHING now that you've been in the league 3 years. So far all I've seen is a guy who can produce if his OL is absolutely mauling the guys on opposite of them. Merely average OL play isn't enough to get average production from Clyde. You need elite OL play to get above average production from him.

Again - Clyde had the best blocking of any RB in football last year and actually yielded negative yards over expected. He's been openly bad at running the football. Nobody's asking him to be Jonathan Taylor out there but lord, at least give me Damien Harris. Give me SOMETHING I can use.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Probably the proper way to hash this out woulda been, "yes, he's a 1st rounder technically. No, he wasn't a 1st rounder in terms of 'first round grade' considering Veach seems to have only about 15ish or so guys with a first round grade every year. Which would theoretically make him a 2nd round talent taken in the 1st.

My recollection is that Veach's glowing appraisals after the draft were essentially that he WAS a first round talent and easily the top guy on their draft board.

But it's all an exercise in turd polishing really - he's not played to a level commensurate with a top 100 pick. His been outplayed by literally every player to have gotten a similar opportunity in the Mahomes era. Hunt, Damien Williams and McKinnon. Even Darrell Williams was a more valuable player due to his short yardage use and the fact that he developed himself into a quality 3rd down back. Hell, even Shady averaged 4.6 YPC and was a quality pass catcher in limited opportunties. And as near as I can tell, MEH had the same fumble rate as Shady last season - it didn't get him buried.

He wouldn't be on the roster anymore if he weren't a 1st round pick.

[VAGOMO 4 LIFE!]

Chiefs sign RB Wayne Gallman

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

My recollection is that Veach's glowing appraisals after the draft were essentially that he WAS a first round talent and easily the top guy on their draft board.

But it's all an exercise in turd polishing really - he's not played to a level commensurate with a top 100 pick. His been outplayed by literally every player to have gotten a similar opportunity in the Mahomes era. Hunt, Damien Williams and McKinnon. Even Darrell Williams was a more valuable player due to his short yardage use and the fact that he developed himself into a quality 3rd down back. Hell, even Shady averaged 4.6 YPC and was a quality pass catcher in limited opportunties. And as near as I can tell, MEH has had the same fumble rate here as McCoy did.

He wouldn't be on the roster anymore if he weren't a 1st round pick.

You had me till the end there. I wouldn't go THAT far.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You had me till the end there. I wouldn't go THAT far.

Guys like Kenyan Drake, James Conner and Sony Michel have been freely available the last 2 seasons and have all had better production over that timespan than Clyde has had.

The Chiefs made no effort whatsoever to bring Darrel Williams back and he was showing himself to be superior to CEH in passing situations and equally bleh running the ball.

If they had invested in Clyde what they invested in Darrel (which is to say - nothing), I don't think he'd be here anymore. Frankly, he'd have never have gotten the amount of opportunities he's gotten to this point, or will evidently continue to get.

He's the living embodiment of divestiture aversion.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Guys like Kenyan Drake, James Conner and Sony Michel have been freely available the last 2 seasons and have all had better production over that timespan than Clyde has had.

The Chiefs made no effort whatsoever to bring Darrel Williams back and he was showing himself to be superior to CEH in passing situations and equally bleh running the ball.

If they had invested in Clyde what they invested in Darrel (which is to say - nothing), I don't think he'd be here anymore. Frankly, he'd have never have gotten the amount of opportunities he's gotten to this point, or will evidently continue to get.

He's the living embodiment of divestiture aversion.

Had this thought about the situation the other night: could Andy be trying to 'pad his stats,' to make CEH appear more valuable in a trade at the end of the season? Because I agree that CEH is probably not on the team next season if Pacheco stays healthy and no obvious weaknesses in his game pop up. I could be wrong, but it looks like Pacheco is the keeper going forward and CEH is bound for a new home in 2023.

So maybe someone thinks Andy can put some shine on CEH over the season and maybe get a little more for him than they would otherwise?

[jd1020]

The Chiefs dont run enough to prop any RB up.

[chiefzilla1501]

I mentioned high leverage situations. In short yardage with 3 yards or less to go or in the red zone he was 3 for 5 at getting a first down or a TD. And one of those he missed the end zone by inches. Of course that also includes the big miss on the final run.

It’s really the long down and distance where he’s been mostly atrocious. At least in games where the defense puts a tiny bit of effort into stopping the run

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Had this thought about the situation the other night: could Andy be trying to 'pad his stats,' to make CEH appear more valuable in a trade at the end of the season? Because I agree that CEH is probably not on the team next season if Pacheco stays healthy and no obvious weaknesses in his game pop up. I could be wrong, but it looks like Pacheco is the keeper going forward and CEH is bound for a new home in 2023.

So maybe someone thinks Andy can put some shine on CEH over the season and maybe get a little more for him than they would otherwise?

Pacheco still needs to show more savvy running the football.

For the same reasons I give little weight to CEH 'dominating' (while not breaking 100 yards of 5 YPC against TB), it's hard to put too much stock in Pacheco cutting up TB that game.

The OL just ****ing wrecked Tampa. And when that's happening it's easy to just run where you're pointed and be effective. That's not how most games go and so I think before we consider Pacheco a 'keeper' we need to see him do some work against lines that aren't getting blown off the LOS. That's where the rubber meets the road a bit.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mentioned high leverage situations. In short yardage with 3 yards or less to go or in the red zone he was 3 for 5 at getting a first down or a TD. And one of those he missed the end zone by inches. Of course that also includes the big miss on the final run.

It’s really the long down and distance where he’s been mostly atrocious. At least in games where the defense puts a tiny bit of effort into stopping the run

I'd pass the ball on 90% of first downs if the game were within 1 score. And then if the game gets spread one direction or another, run it on 1st downs as pure tendency breakers to try to scramble a few spreadsheets.

The first down runs drive me absolutely bonkers unless they come inside the 5 yard line.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Pacheco still needs to show more savvy running the football.

Yeah, that's a given. Just extrapolating the best potential scenario.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

For the same reasons I give little weight to CEH 'dominating' (while not breaking 100 yards of 5 YPC against TB), it's hard to put too much stock in Pacheco cutting up TB that game.

The OL just ****ing wrecked Tampa. And when that's happening it's easy to just run where you're pointed and be effective. That's not how most games go and so I think before we consider Pacheco a 'keeper' we need to see him do some work against lines that aren't getting blown off the LOS. That's where the rubber meets the road a bit.

The more I think about it, I don't think they're trying to improve CEH's stock for a future trade. I don't remember Andy ever doing anything like that, for one.

I think it's more likely that Andy's just giving CEH a chance to show what he can do. This is his first year of being actually healthy, and having a decent OL at the same time.

Though statistically he's been better this season than any other. In week 1 vs. ARZ he averaged 6.0yds/att and a pair of receiving TDs, vs. LAC he went 8-for-74 yds on the ground for a 9.25yds average, and then of course against TB he went 19-for-92yds (4.84yds/carry) with both a rushing TD and one receiving. So yeah, he didn't do anything vs. IND or LVR, but he was pretty good in his other three games.