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Old 04-23-2020, 10:09 PM  
Dante84 Dante84 is offline
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*****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread*****
More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

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Last edited by Bearcat; 04-28-2020 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:17 AM   #3616
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I can see the "not top 5" argument. That's fine.

But not in the best 15 LT's? I dont' see 14 better.
I don't see 17 that are worse.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:19 AM   #3617
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As for Thuney, him and Brown are the only guys we will be paying top dollar on the OL.

Absolutely no issue with giving Mahomes the best OL in the league for the next few years.
definitely. Have to protect our half -billion dollar investment
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:20 AM   #3618
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I don't see 17 that are worse.
Awful take.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:20 AM   #3619
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As for Thuney, him and Brown are the only guys we will be paying top dollar on the OL.

Absolutely no issue with giving Mahomes the best OL in the league for the next few years.
Both moves were absolutely solid. Love them. However, Brown simply does not have the physical skills to deal with a speed rush. He can't get there. Consistently was beat by it.

Once we started chipping, he was terrific. But, if you're going to get the kind of money he wants, I don't think you should have quite as glaring of a weakness.

maybe he gets better, but I don't see how that happens. For my eyes, it was simply a lack of lateral quickness I saw from the very beginning that never improved.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:23 AM   #3620
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It makes me want to pull my hair out how little they've valued RB lately, especially with all the additions to the OL. I love Pat but name the greatest QB to do it without a decent running back. Brady may be 1
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:25 AM   #3621
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I'd have done exactly what they did with Tyreek.

Kelce is a unicorn. I don't think he's ever actually been paid what he is worth.

Bringing in Brown Jr. and paying him elite LT money for average LT pay are two different things. Yes, I would have brought in Orlando Brown. I would NOT be working to pay him top 5 at his position, when he isn't a top 15 player.

Joe Thuney would have been - as I believe it was for Veach - a mandate from the owner. Up to me, absolutely not do I ever want to pay top dollar for a guard. Draft guys, extend them before they are in the last year of their deal, or trade them away.
I'm gonna be honest, you'd be like... the worst GM ever lol
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:28 AM   #3622
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Awful take.
It's no different than saying "I don't see 14 better."

Like... do we want to act like we can go through 32 left tackles in the league and rank them in any objective way? That's silly.

The reality is that there are a certain number of guys who are elite at their position. the rest are in the wash. Do we think Brown is elite at his position? Because that is binary. You are or you're not. I don't care if you're the 9th best LT or the 32nd. If you aren't elite, it is detrimental to the team to pay you elite money.

So, yeah, me saying "top 15" is misleading, as it implies there is an actual numerical order to how good a player is. It's not really quantifiable.

I like him as a player, I don't love him.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:29 AM   #3623
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Both moves were absolutely solid. Love them. However, Brown simply does not have the physical skills to deal with a speed rush. He can't get there. Consistently was beat by it.

Once we started chipping, he was terrific. But, if you're going to get the kind of money he wants, I don't think you should have quite as glaring of a weakness.

maybe he gets better, but I don't see how that happens. For my eyes, it was simply a lack of lateral quickness I saw from the very beginning that never improved.
Some of that was\is on Pat though for dropping 20 yds back. I believe they both started jelling later in the season and got a good rhythm going between them. OBJ only gave up 4 sacks all season with most of them in the first part of it.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:31 AM   #3624
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I'm gonna be honest, you'd be like... the worst GM ever lol
lol maybe. But doubtful. Everyone shits on teams that trade away stars when it happens. Then they suck their dicks when they have amazing drafts.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:32 AM   #3625
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You're talking top five draft picks earning market setting contracts. I'm talking about retaining good players. The Bills have drafted an RB in the top 4 rounds in 3 of the last 4 drafts. No reason we can't do more at RB. A top 5-10 RB shouldn't break the bank if we landed one
The top 8 RBs AAV range from $12m-16m.

We were able to get great production out of Damien Williams for $2.5m/year and McKinnon for $1m/year.

If the option is Kamara at $15m/year or a stable of Damien Williams and Jerick Mckinnons for a total of $5m/year, I think I'd go with the scrubs.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:45 AM   #3626
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lol maybe. But doubtful. Everyone shits on teams that trade away stars when it happens. Then they suck their dicks when they have amazing drafts.
I think, like anything in life, there's a good balance.

I don't prefer to trade away picks and then have to sign guys to mega-extensions ala Orlando Brown Jr and Frank Clark, but they have their place.

I don't prefer to have our two highest paid offensive guys besides the QB being a LG and TE but Thuney helped anchor the complete OL rebuild in one offseason and Kelce's contract vs production has paid dividends.

It sounds to me like our team would basically consist of Pat, Frank Clark, Chris Jones and a bunch of Daniel Sorenson level players if you were in charge lol if that's your philosophy then you need to ace literally every draft to keep replacing guys. Truth is, you'll need to open up your pocketbook a bit to keep some of them, even the ones with low positional value. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:49 AM   #3627
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It's no different than saying "I don't see 14 better."

Like... do we want to act like we can go through 32 left tackles in the league and rank them in any objective way? That's silly.

The reality is that there are a certain number of guys who are elite at their position. the rest are in the wash. Do we think Brown is elite at his position? Because that is binary. You are or you're not. I don't care if you're the 9th best LT or the 32nd. If you aren't elite, it is detrimental to the team to pay you elite money.

So, yeah, me saying "top 15" is misleading, as it implies there is an actual numerical order to how good a player is. It's not really quantifiable.

I like him as a player, I don't love him.
There's what, 3 elite LT's in football? If that's what you're looking for, fine. Gonna have to either trade a bunch for one, trade way up in the draft to get one (they go in the top 5) or pay in FA (they were going to with Williams).

As you're stumbling around trying to say here, Brown is probably good/great but not elite. Could he get to the elite level? I doubt it, but he's still pretty young so there's some development still there.

But LT is similar to QB in that if you don't have one, you do all you can to get one and once you get one you pay him and forget about it.

If you don't want to pay Brown, again, I'm fine with it. But getting one of his level or better is going to be very difficult. If you wanna get worse at LT but keep that powder dry and try to get by with a guy that's not as good as Brown but use that money elsewhere, that's another way to go.

Then you get into OL stability and such as it's more about the whole than it's parts so it's not the worst idea. But again, you're talking about the guy protecting your most prized possession. So I doubt they plan on cobbling something together there.
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Old 05-23-2022, 11:54 AM   #3628
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The top 8 RBs AAV range from $12m-16m.

We were able to get great production out of Damien Williams for $2.5m/year and McKinnon for $1m/year.

If the option is Kamara at $15m/year or a stable of Damien Williams and Jerick Mckinnons for a total of $5m/year, I think I'd go with the scrubs.
We got great production out of Mckinnon?

I'm all for churning free agents through. But you selling yourself short relying on bottom barrel free agents. For a franchise with such rich RB history I would expect fans to expect better
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:02 PM   #3629
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We got great production out of Mckinnon?

I'm all for churning free agents through. But you selling yourself short relying on bottom barrel free agents. For a franchise with such rich RB history I would expect fans to expect better
In limited playing time? Yes. Absolutely.

He averaged over 5 YPC and 8 YPR in limited time in the regular season.

When he was thrust into a more prominent role in the postseason, he did well too. He averaged over 100 yards from scrimmage in 3 postseason games. In two of the three games, he averaged over 5 YPC and in all three games he averaged over 10 YPR. That's pretty baller, honestly.

If CEH played that well I wouldn't have an issue with him.
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Old 05-23-2022, 12:21 PM   #3630
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I'm not interested in paying out a top 5 AAV RB contract. I said top 5-10 would probably be doable. Mckinnon is the example of a great value last year. Me personally I would be hunting for values like that while also looking for the guy at RB in the draft. If he earns top 5 contract after 4 years fine...let him walk find another...my point is we should be taking more shots at RB rather than settling for the bargain bin....it's really a disservice to Pat
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