Chiefs ****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread***** - Page 224

Dante84 · 12:07 PM

More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)

Spoiler!

Marcellus · 11-10-2021, 08:18 PM

Chiefs are rushing for less than 4YPC since CEH went out, enough said.

tredadda · 11-10-2021, 08:32 PM

The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.

TLO · 11-10-2021, 08:34 PM

I hope he can come back this week. He'll gash the Raiders.

**Easy 6** · 11-10-2021, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.

They don't respect CEH, and his 14 yard highlights either

**RealSNR** · 11-10-2021, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaNewGuy

Nice take

You’re crowning this guy’s ass waaaaay too early.

This is the same shit I had to do with Daurice Fountain. Everybody else is either bad or has been around too long and people are desperate for fresh new and exciting, so they cling to mediocrity like Derrick Gore if they so much as flash just a tiny bit.

Maybe Gore is our best back. Maybe fountain really was our 2nd best receiver. None of that shit ****ing matters if they don’t get their name called, and that’s where people need to chill the **** out.

How many carries did Gore get last week? Did he get any at all when Darrell Williams was buttsexing all of his carries for one yard in the second half?

Ya’ll got waaay too excited if you think this much that he’s shown is proof of anything yet. The Chiefs through the years have had some truly putrid RBs have big games. Let’s wait until Gore has even one of those games before we consider putting him in Frank Moreau territory.

Until then, he may as well be Jackie Battle

JakeF · 11-11-2021, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda

The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.

Teams don't fear/respect CEH more than Williams, probably Gore either.

In fact, i think Williams is showing a hard running style that can get an extra few yards. That's not something we really see from CEH.

Gore has looked pretty good in his limited time as well.

JakeF · 11-11-2021, 01:18 AM

Against the Packers;

Williams played 35 snaps: 19 carries/70 yards, 3.6avg and 3 rec/7 yards
Gore played 10 snaps: 3 carries/13 yards, 4.3avg and 1 rec/6 yards

dlphg9 · 11-11-2021, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

ok, but you can't throw out the big plays. If you did that, Barry Sanders isn't a hall of famer.

This cherry picking of stats is ridiculous. Those plays happened, he took them the distance, and they absolutely count.

some runs get stuffed. Some go for a couple yards. If those count, so do the long ones.

You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.

dlphg9 · 11-11-2021, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeF

Teams don't fear/respect CEH more than Williams, probably Gore either.

In fact, i think Williams is showing a hard running style that can get an extra few yards. That's not something we really see from CEH.

Gore has looked pretty good in his limited time as well.

CEH is 10x the RB that Darrel Williams is. Darrel Williams is slow as dog shit. He's had 123 combined carries between last year and this year and his longest runs are 12 and 13 yards. So far this year

(68%) 57 out of 84 of his carries have went for 4 or less yards.(54%) 45 of his 84 carries were for 3 yards or less.

That means he's only picking up 5+ yards on 32% of his runs

This is with the best run blocking line we've had since Vermeil and teams are doing everything in their power to allow us to run.

CEH on the other hand has 65 carries

(40%) 26 have been for 3 yards or less
(58%) 38 have been for 4 yards or less

So 42% of his runs have went for 5+ yards.

CEH has been more productive and then when you look at the run D of the teams that each got the majority of carries it looks even better for CEH

CEH

Browns 3rd in rush yards allowed
Baltimore 5th in rush yards allowed
LA Chargers 32nd in rush yards allowed and CEH gashed em
PHI 20th in rush yards allowed
Buffalo 4th in rush yards allowed, got hurt

Williams

I'll give him PHI because he had 10 carries

PHI 20th
WAS 11th
NYG 22nd
GB 16th

I'm no fan of CEH. I didn't like a 1st round RB and he just doesn't look very good, but Williams is just bad. He's the worst RB that we have had in decades and done absolutely nothing to earn any playing time besides perform fellatio on Andy or something like that. I'm not sure why Andy gets infatuated with JAGs.

I'm unsure why you would think any team would fear/respect Darrel Williams non talented ass. However, you are really dumb, so that's probably it.

Chris Meck · 11-11-2021, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9

You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.

No, no,no. You really can't, and no it doesn't give you a clearer picture about anything at all because all of this ignores context that's entirely relevant such as surrounding cast, opponent, and situational football. This is why I get really irritated when people want to take a RB's ypc as some sort of be-all-end-all stat. That doesn't tell anywhere near the whole story on the individual's talent level.

You can have an entirely successful 2.0 yard run for a first down... You can have a failure with a 7 yard run on 3rd and 8. In 2020, the offensive line was so bad for most of the season that nobody was going to have much success running the ball, I don't care who was back there.

RB's are a little harder to evaluate because their down-to-down performance is so dependent on multiple other players, coaches, offensive tendencies, quality of opponent- as well as each situation. YPC is only a small part of the equation. Maybe some equation like QBR that would factor in down and distance, first downs gained, yards after contact and four minute offense when you're really just trying to burn the clock and everyone in the stadium knows you're running every play, not really trying to gain max yardage.

If anything, no running play is 'schemed' to go for a long TD. That takes a defensive breakdown and/or a remarkable individual effort. So if ANYTHING, you absolutely should NEVER throw that out, because if a player is solely responsible for ANY running play, their speed and/or elusiveness in the open field would be more responsible for that play than any 5.0 yard sweep.

Shields68 · 11-11-2021, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Chiefs worst runs come from under-center formations.

They have not consistently attempted to lineup under center. Some of the problem is with the retirement of Sherman they no longer have a very good lead back to play.

Chris Meck · 11-11-2021, 09:47 AM

The worst runs come from under center because everyone in the stadium knows we're about to run the ball.

It's not a good thing for us to do, as we might as well just tell the defense what's coming before the snap.

Dunerdr · 11-11-2021, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9

You could go and take out the longest run in each season of Jamaal Charles career and he goes from 5.4 ypc to 5.1 ypc. Do that to Damien Williams 2019 season and he goes from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc.

Williams rushes that year broke down like this

(18%) 20 rushes went for -6 to 0 yards
(43%) 48 rushes went for 1 to 3 yards
(26%) 29 rushes went for 4 to 6 yards
(9%) 10 rushes went for 7 to 10 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 11 to 15 yards
(0%) 0 rushes went for 16 to 83 yards
(2%) 2 rushes went for 84 to 91 yards

So 61% of his rushes went for -6 to 3 yards. That's horrible.

Let's do another exercise to show just how shit he was. We will take away his 2 long runs, but also we will take away the bad ones. All 12 of his playa that went for -1 yard or less. That brings him to 358 yards on 97 carries which comes out to 3.7 ypc.

Sometimes cherry picking stats can actually show you a more clear picture. I took away his 2 best runs and 12 of his worst runs and it took him from 4.5 ypc to 3.7 ypc. That year the 4.5 ypc was good for 20th out of 45 qualified RBs and the 3.7 ypc drops him to 39th out of 45.

Now let's do it with his 2 best and 2 worst runs being removed. 107 carries for 334 yards and 3.1 ypc. Which is pretty well horrendous. So yeah I'm cherry picking, but anyway you slice it his 2019 regular season was an absolute mirage.

He does however get a pass due to his post season and Superbowl performance. I just like to discuss these things.

Hey stop. People here dont like the truth about Damien.

DJ's left nut · 11-11-2021, 09:55 AM

There were three critical plays not made by runningbacks on Sunday that probably get made by CEH.

The 3rd and 2 pass to McKinnon where he got isolated 1v1 against a CB. If he makes the CB miss, he goes for 25 yards (the playcall was good - there was NOBODY behind him). Even if he squares his shoulders and gets low, he plows forward for 5 yards and a first. Instead McKinnon got his feet knocked out from under him and went straight down. CEH is shifty - I'm not sure he gets the clean miss for 25 but he absolutely gets down and drives forward for a 1st down at about the 50 yard line.

The 3rd and 1 run from Gore was just AWFUL. They had an easy 1st down there if he just follows his pulling G (Thuney). Instead he bounced left, into the teeth of the defense and the extra man that opened up by Thuney's pull. Stuffed at about the 50, punt.

And the throw to Williams near the goal-line. I was floored he didn't get that angle but he's just soooooo slooooooow. That was a walk-in TD for a genuine starting caliber back. CEH gets that one easy because he's up to speed pretty quickly. Williams, OTOH, just spun his wheels, lost the angle and was brought down. After the subsequent false start we had to kick a field goal.

That's 4 points and 2 first downs at mid-field, all attributable to a different 'alternative' to CEH and all plays that I'm fairly certain CEH makes.

CEH isn't an elite runningback but he's not a lousy one. And our alternatives are, frankly, pretty lousy.

The Chiefs shouldn't have drafted CEH where they did but they still need him.

cmh6476 · 11-11-2021, 09:57 AM

so is he the bellcow this week?

04-23-2020, 10:09 PM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $-358004 VARSITY	***The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread* More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP) (mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags) Spoiler!** LET'S GEUAX!#NFLDraft on ESPN/ABC/NFLN pic.twitter.com/2dMSjTR9R9 — Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) April 24, 2020 Congratulations to my son. Mere words can’t explain the joy in my heart and soul. This was an EPIC moment & Well deserved. What GOD has for you ; it’s for you!❤️�� WE ARE CHIEFS ‼️❤️@Clydro_22 @NFL @NFLDraft @LSUfootball @Chiefs @Espn @SECNetwork pic.twitter.com/Pjo2SMLmM9 — Tonge' Helaire (@HelaireTonge) April 25, 2020 �� pic.twitter.com/9ZnxzAaZ4z — Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 24, 2020 Some fun here. Edwards-Helaire rushed for 1,415 yards and 16 touchdowns as a junior .. all-purpose yards -- receiving (55 receptions, 453 yards) and kick returner (KEY) 10 returns, 214 yards pic.twitter.com/3Duq1jjy6J — Harold R. Kuntz (@HaroldRKuntz3) April 24, 2020 Oh look, an extensive film review of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, who I wrote a few days ago is a PERFECT fit for Andy Reid's offense. Also... @jbbrisco... Oh man. Oh. Man. ��⚡️https://t.co/g6lbNonQ1o — Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) April 24, 2020 With the 32nd pick, the #Chiefs select Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU • PFF Big Board #4 RB, #81 Overall • #1 Run Grade among NCAA RBs (92.0) • Led SEC RBs in rush yards, receiving yards, rush TDs & YPC • NFL Comparison: Ray Ricehttps://t.co/eQoKvEmIss #ChiefsKingdom — PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) April 24, 2020 You got a good one, @chiefs CLYDRO pic.twitter.com/WyxKVgwTwS — LSU Football (@LSUfootball) April 24, 2020 Holy offense Bat Man. I love Clyde Edwards-Helaire. He is best Rb in the draft. Watkins and Hill deep. Kelce in the middle. And Edwards-Helaire underneath. Good Luck defenses. — Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) April 24, 2020 Brett Veach told Andy Reid to watch some Clyde Edwards-Helaire film and told Reid you’ll see Brian Westbrook. Reid watched. Then got back to Veach and said he’s better than Westbrook. — James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 24, 2020 Last edited by Bearcat; 04-28-2020 at 12:07 PM..
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11-10-2021, 08:18 PM	#3346
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $1042662	Chiefs are rushing for less than 4YPC since CEH went out, enough said.
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11-10-2021, 08:32 PM	#3347
tredadda Three-Pat Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs Casino cash: $-314947	The problem with CEH is that those who were upset with him being drafted at #31, are still upset and trying to justify themselves because he's not the second coming of Marshall Faulk. He's a solid, if unspectacular runner who has been underused in the passing game. His return will definitely help this offense as it does not appear like teams respect Williams or Gore.
Posts: 18,483	1 0

11-10-2021, 08:34 PM	#3348
TLO Life is changing.. Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NW Missouri Casino cash: $-870000	I hope he can come back this week. He'll gash the Raiders.
Posts: 41,843

11-11-2021, 01:18 AM	#3352
JakeF MVP Join Date: May 2017 Casino cash: $9990400	Against the Packers; Williams played 35 snaps: 19 carries/70 yards, 3.6avg and 3 rec/7 yards Gore played 10 snaps: 3 carries/13 yards, 4.3avg and 1 rec/6 yards
Posts: 10,605	0 1

11-11-2021, 09:47 AM	#3357
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $284910	The worst runs come from under center because everyone in the stadium knows we're about to run the ball. It's not a good thing for us to do, as we might as well just tell the defense what's coming before the snap.
Posts: 18,117

11-11-2021, 09:55 AM	#3359
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $849099	There were three critical plays not made by runningbacks on Sunday that probably get made by CEH. The 3rd and 2 pass to McKinnon where he got isolated 1v1 against a CB. If he makes the CB miss, he goes for 25 yards (the playcall was good - there was NOBODY behind him). Even if he squares his shoulders and gets low, he plows forward for 5 yards and a first. Instead McKinnon got his feet knocked out from under him and went straight down. CEH is shifty - I'm not sure he gets the clean miss for 25 but he absolutely gets down and drives forward for a 1st down at about the 50 yard line. The 3rd and 1 run from Gore was just AWFUL. They had an easy 1st down there if he just follows his pulling G (Thuney). Instead he bounced left, into the teeth of the defense and the extra man that opened up by Thuney's pull. Stuffed at about the 50, punt. And the throw to Williams near the goal-line. I was floored he didn't get that angle but he's just soooooo slooooooow. That was a walk-in TD for a genuine starting caliber back. CEH gets that one easy because he's up to speed pretty quickly. Williams, OTOH, just spun his wheels, lost the angle and was brought down. After the subsequent false start we had to kick a field goal. That's 4 points and 2 first downs at mid-field, all attributable to a different 'alternative' to CEH and all plays that I'm fairly certain CEH makes. CEH isn't an elite runningback but he's not a lousy one. And our alternatives are, frankly, pretty lousy. The Chiefs shouldn't have drafted CEH where they did but they still need him. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
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11-11-2021, 09:57 AM	#3360
cmh6476 Keep Camp Home! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Joe MO Casino cash: $536277	so is he the bellcow this week? __________________ from September to February! from November to April! from April to October! 2024 Adopt-a-Chief: Xavier Worthy
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