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Old 04-29-2022, 06:44 PM  
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:30 AM   #3211
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We've said this for a couple years now, but Pat at a point needs to understand that he plays the game and the coaches coach it.

He doesn't decide who's running the routes and he doesn't need to worry about if they're gonna actually catch the ball.

Now IF Moore is out there ****ing routes up in practice and Mahomes has taken him out of the progression because short routes that get messed up turn into pick 6s very quickly - okay, I can handle that.

But the 'well he's worried the guy's gonna drop it' stuff - man, he's gotta let that go. Over a large enough sample size these guys will fix the glitch or hit the bench. In the interim, if they're where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be there - throw 'em the ball. If they drop it, that's on them.

Now I'm not 100% convinced Moore is where he's supposed to be. In fact I think there's a real chance he isn't. But that's a story for another day I guess. But I think that HAS to be the crux of the issue. Because Mahomes doesn't even look at him. Open or not, it doesn't matter because Mahomes just doesn't really care.
Yeah I alluded to this a couple of posts down, but I don't think Mahomes trusts him to be in the right place, or run the route correctly and he's been burned by it before.
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:31 AM   #3212
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Toney averaged 3 yards of separation on his targets. So....catch the ball and you're fine.
Toney looked like we expected Toney to look until the ball got there.

He was a handful out there.

I'm actually fairly confident that Toney will recover from all this and be fine. I may try some trade lows out there in fantasy.

But Moore? I just see no reason for optimism.
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:34 AM   #3213
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Yeah I alluded to this a couple of posts down, but I don't think Mahomes trusts him to be in the right place, or run the route correctly and he's been burned by it before.
Like I said somewhere in this thread last season, Moore ****ing up a simple Dig route was a HUGE red flag to me.

I mean that's high school football stuff. Plant and run at 90. There's not an easier route in the world to run.

And he was lazy. Didn't plant the foot hard and then drifted back off his cut to let the DB cut right under him and pick it off. It's just an awful, awful interception. Then he jakes a blocking assignment either that game or the next one.

The effort is inconsistent and the execution damn sure appears to be as well. This isn't even HARD stuff like sight adjustments. This is easy, knew it in high school, fundamental stuff.

And 10 games into the season he was messing them up last year. People wanted to make excuses for it but there IS no excuse for that. That isn't something you need a season in the system to know how to do.
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:51 AM   #3214
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Toney looked like we expected Toney to look until the ball got there.

He was a handful out there.

I'm actually fairly confident that Toney will recover from all this and be fine. I may try some trade lows out there in fantasy.

But Moore? I just see no reason for optimism.
Some of the spacing and timing was just off, which I'm sure bled into Pat's distrust. I'm thinking some of that could be from Kelce and moving guys around.
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Old 09-11-2023, 10:57 AM   #3215
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Some of the spacing and timing was just off, which I'm sure bled into Pat's distrust. I'm thinking some of that could be from Kelce and moving guys around.
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Old 09-11-2023, 11:13 AM   #3216
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I don’t like to use the word “efficient.” But I think the new mahomes mentality is to not waste downs. A drop is an obvious example. But we’ve also seen games where mahomes missed a few deep shots then pulled back, even though the defense was giving it to us.

If we don’t execute the basics mahomes loses confidence that we can claw 10 yards in 2 tries. And so instead of taking more risks he instead puts it on himself to manufacture opportunities. That’s why you see him bail on pockets before he goes through progressions. Or abandon short stuff he fears will result in a drop or a loss. It’s also why he may be reluctant to waste downs on a deep miss. Even if the defense gives us deep shots I don’t know mahomes attacks it as long as we don’t clean up the basics.

Kelce helps a lot but not entirely. We saw this same body language in our year of dropsies. Mahomes doesn’t sulk over tough defense or bad throws. What sets him off is when his guys don’t execute what they’re supposed to.
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Old 09-11-2023, 11:42 AM   #3217
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Like I said somewhere in this thread last season, Moore ****ing up a simple Dig route was a HUGE red flag to me.

I mean that's high school football stuff. Plant and run at 90. There's not an easier route in the world to run.

And he was lazy. Didn't plant the foot hard and then drifted back off his cut to let the DB cut right under him and pick it off. It's just an awful, awful interception. Then he jakes a blocking assignment either that game or the next one.

The effort is inconsistent and the execution damn sure appears to be as well. This isn't even HARD stuff like sight adjustments. This is easy, knew it in high school, fundamental stuff.

And 10 games into the season he was messing them up last year. People wanted to make excuses for it but there IS no excuse for that. That isn't something you need a season in the system to know how to do.
He was a RB in HS. Has only played 3 seasons as a WR in a small conference school.

He said in an interview he thought he was going to be a RB in college but found out when he got there that they had him as wr.

Big jump for the kid.

Hopefully, he’s able to figure it out and start making plays and moving sticks.
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:27 PM   #3218
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I'm not necessarily a Moore believer, but his snap count indicates the staff has confidence in him. The lack of targets is concerning, but that's not 100% his fault.

I hope last week was a fluke with a disjointed offense caused by the Kelce injury and the Lions playing way more zone than anyone expected (likely due to the Kelce injury).
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:32 PM   #3219
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I'm not necessarily a Moore believer, but his snap count indicates the staff has confidence in him. The lack of targets is concerning, but that's not 100% his fault.

I hope last week was a fluke with a disjointed offense caused by the Kelce injury and the Lions playing way more zone than anyone expected (likely due to the Kelce injury).
The concern should be Mahomes has no trust in him, to have the most WR snaps and garner a 7.7% share is absolutely awful.
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:37 PM   #3220
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He was a RB in HS. Has only played 3 seasons as a WR in a small conference school.

He said in an interview he thought he was going to be a RB in college but found out when he got there that they had him as wr.

Big jump for the kid.

Hopefully, he’s able to figure it out and start making plays and moving sticks.
So swap him and ceh. Probably won't change much
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:45 PM   #3221
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The concern should be Mahomes has no trust in him, to have the most WR snaps and garner a 7.7% share is absolutely awful.
Yeah, that's concerning for a second-round pick in his second year. That's not great. He's already shown he can't be a punt returner.

But, I think there's a chance, given his very high snap count, that we see more targets in a different game against a different opponent (with defenses having to account for Kelce).

There's also a chance he's just a guy, or worse. We will know more after next week.
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:46 PM   #3222
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and he dropped it 3 times...yea that makes sense
I get it he's an NFL WR, but every single one of those "drops" would have been incredible catches. He dropped a slant that was fired in the opposite direction of where he's going. The other 2 were really high passes.

If we're gonna play "You're in the NFL, so you are required to make tough catches", then we have to be fair and say the same thing about our QB. He's the greatest player/QB to ever play this game, so he should be putting the ball where it needs to be.

It's ok to admit that Patrick was a little off for some reason. It's a rare occurrence, but he's not above criticism.
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:49 PM   #3223
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He was a RB in HS. Has only played 3 seasons as a WR in a small conference school.

He said in an interview he thought he was going to be a RB in college but found out when he got there that they had him as wr.

Big jump for the kid.

Hopefully, he’s able to figure it out and start making plays and moving sticks.
Which is...y'know....why he was more of a 4th round pick than a 2nd rounder.

But I digress....
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:50 PM   #3224
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If we're gonna credit Moore with 3 drops on those 3 balls, we're grading Mahomes on a curve.


One of those drops, Gardner made a hell of a play knocking the ball out.

Doesn't absolve him for the other drops, but that one he actually caught, then Gardner pulled off a great PD. I can't blame Skyy for that one.
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Old 09-11-2023, 12:51 PM   #3225
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