*****The Patrick Mahomes Thread*****

[Dante84]

IT ****ING HAPPENED



OP UPDATE:

Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy!

[Bearcat]

Meh... haven't watched it, but it's just something to talk about, because the alternative is talking about the Chiefs making the SB three years in a row and reaching a threshold of "I want to see different teams!!!".

It's one thing to talk blueprint... yeah, every team is beatable and has a list of things to do in order to be successful, but the real question is which teams can actually pull it off against the Chiefs when the games really matter and the Chiefs most likely aren't down to their 4th string offensive line (and throwing the ball into the stands doesn't result in a DPI ).

[SupDock]

I feel like dropping 7 only worked because of how shitty our OL was. Teams were getting pressure with 4 so Mahomes had no time to beat the defense with a good throw, or a good route, and we couldn’t run the ball.

This is all moot if we have protection and can run effectively.

[Dante84]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Meh... haven't watched it, but it's just something to talk about, because the alternative is talking about the Chiefs making the SB three years in a row and reaching a threshold of "I want to see different teams!!!".

It's one thing to talk blueprint... yeah, every team is beatable and has a list of things to do in order to be successful, but the real question is which teams can actually pull it off against the Chiefs when the games really matter and the Chiefs most likely aren't down to their 4th string offensive line (and throwing the ball into the stands doesn't result in a DPI ).

Good call.

This year, the roster requirements for teams to have a chance against us:

At least 4 studs in the box: 2 elite players and 2 high-quality players in the front 7.
-AND-
At least 1 stud in the secondary
-AND-
0 chumps in the secondary
-AND-
A top 10 QB, specifically one that does well against pressure
-AND-
A top 10 OLine unit
-AND-
At least 1 Elite pass-catcher
-AND-
A top 15 rushing attack.


There's just not many teams that can meet these requirements.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

The blueprint is hope Mahomes has a bad day and hope you can make some crazy big scoring plays, both things have to happen.

What was the winning streak up to at one point? 23 games?

No.

I actually talked about it yesterday. As it's been explained, the Chiefs passing offense, for their bread and butter plays, isn't really that complicated for a defense to defend. Or a better way to put it, teams are figuring out HOW to defend it.

Teams have figured out that, despite the motion and the window dressing etc, the receivers generally end up in the same places. It's not always the same receiver, but there's generally guys in the same general places. So defenders are being told to not bother biting on fakes, following the dressing etc. To not even pay attention to the Chiefs pre-snap. Just stay in your zone. Stay in these specific areas for these specific plays. They're not biting like they use to.

And that's why the Chiefs have been getting slowed down by zone defenses.

[ToxSocks]

I believe, from what ive gathered over the years (and im totally spit balling here) is that it's the PLAYERS who are really making this offense click, and it's believed that there's been a lack of passing game creativity in terms of routes etc, that often gets masked by the awesomeness of Mahomes and Co.

And that may have something to do with why teams aren't falling over themselves for EB.

Basically, there's a belief among NFL circles that the Chiefs should actually be doing more from a play calling standpoint than they are, considering the talent they have.

That's my theory at least.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by SupDock

I feel like dropping 7 only worked because of how shitty our OL was. Teams were getting pressure with 4 so Mahomes had no time to beat the defense with a good throw, or a good route, and we couldn’t run the ball.

This is all moot if we have protection and can run effectively.

Shit.....4? Teams were getting pressure with 3!

Part of that too is, Mahomes stepping up into the pocket instead of rolling out.

The 3 man rush that would flush Mahomes out and then chase him to the sideline was frustrating.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No.

I actually talked about it yesterday. As it's been explained, the Chiefs passing offense, for their bread and butter plays, isn't really that complicated for a defense to defend. Or a better way to put it, teams are figuring out HOW to defend it.

Teams have figured out that, despite the motion and the window dressing etc, the receivers generally end up in the same places. It's not always the same receiver, but there's generally guys in the same general places. So defenders are being told to not bother biting on fakes, following the dressing etc. To not even pay attention to the Chiefs pre-snap. Just stay in your zone. Stay in these specific areas for these specific plays. They're not biting like they use to.

And that's why the Chiefs have been getting slowed down by zone defenses.

The Chiefs have been doing all that stuff since Alex was here. It's not new.

The motion is window dressing that may get a step in the wrong direction, but in the end, it's not that it's being "figured out" per say. Maybe I'm wrong here, but IMO, the biggest culprit to all this has just been the OL crumbling.

Look at 2018 and that OL. Then look what happened last year.

Teams figured out you could drop 7 and get pressure with 4 and there's not much you can do about that if you can't block.

[duncan_idaho]

Being able to run a good screen game again and being able to create some push off the line is the counter to the Chiefs being "figured out."

And considering that the "Figured out" component includes having the personnel to pressure Mahomes with just four rushers while dropping 7 into zones, I don't really buy the "figured out" thing.

[O.city]

I mean think this out.

With teams rushing 4 last year, the Chiefs still had to chip with a RB or keep a TE in to contain it and still couldn't from time to time. So the Chiefs had to use 5 to block 4.

Then teams can drop 7. Well the Chiefs have 5 guys out in route combinations. That allows you to double Kelce and Hill and play straight up everywhere else if you want.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by O.city

I mean think this out.

With teams rushing 4 last year, the Chiefs still had to chip with a RB or keep a TE in to contain it and still couldn't from time to time. So the Chiefs had to use 5 to block 4.

Then teams can drop 7. Well the Chiefs have 5 guys out in route combinations. That allows you to double Kelce and Hill and play straight up everywhere else if you want.

And we were still winning.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

I mean think this out.

With teams rushing 4 last year, the Chiefs still had to chip with a RB or keep a TE in to contain it and still couldn't from time to time. So the Chiefs had to use 5 to block 4.

Then teams can drop 7. Well the Chiefs have 5 guys out in route combinations. That allows you to double Kelce and Hill and play straight up everywhere else if you want.

It's not that simple though.

Take the Patriots for example. They weren't just rushing 3 and dropping 8 all the time. They mixed it up quite a bit.

Teams are becoming more successful at predicting what the Chiefs wanted to run and when.

Whenever the Chiefs wanted to run, it felt like the Pats were ready for it. When we had to throw, the Pats would show run and then drop 8 into coverage.

It was the Patriots who created this blueprint. The rest of the league just tried copying it with varying degrees of success.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by SupDock

And we were still winning.

Of course. But we're discussing why things aren't as ez as they were in '18 anymore.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It's not that simple though.

Take the Patriots for example. They weren't just rushing 3 and dropping 8 all the time. They mixed it up quite a bit.

Teams are becoming more successful at predicting what the Chiefs wanted to run and when.

Whenever the Chiefs wanted to run, it felt like the Pats were ready for it. When we had to throw, the Pats would show run and then drop 8 into coverage.

It was the Patriots who created this blueprint. The rest of the league just tried copying it with varying degrees of success.

Sure, but what happened since 2018 that also could have caused this?

Morse left, the guards sucked and the tackles got dinged up and older. The Pats did it in 2018 in the regular season and AFC champ game somewhat.

The Chiefs offense definitely has to continue to evolve as I think teams have enough tendencies to know against Andy's offense now.

But when you can't run the whole offense because of the OL, I just don't know what else you can do.

[AdolfOliverBush]

The OL as a whole sucked balls the last two seasons, injuries or not. This made the Chiefs more one-dimensional, and not even Reid/Mahomes can compensate for the playbook being cut in half.

If the new OL can give the Chiefs a running game even half as good as the passing game, the NFL better watch the **** out.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

I mean think this out.

With teams rushing 4 last year, the Chiefs still had to chip with a RB or keep a TE in to contain it and still couldn't from time to time.

Did they though? I don't think they did that as much as you're suggesting. Kelce left in to block? Ehhhhh....yeah i'd like to see some numbers on that.