Chiefs ****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread***** - Page 204

Dante84 · 12:07 PM

More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)

Spoiler!

**YayMike** · 10-04-2021, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This is the most critical point.

For whatever reason they were focused on outside zone early in the season. And that's super-strange since many of us looked at the personnel they brought in and thought they might get out of a zone-blocking system altogether. They don't have the OL to do that terribly well, let alone the RB.

By emphasizing the inside zone (which still seems slightly more complicated and unnecessary given the strength of the OL) they've been able to be more than good enough running the football.

Yes. Yessir yepp! Know the strengths of each back and use them. The HOLES the interior line was opening up were insane!

Just as awesome; The power tosses to DW gave me the chills! Then again inside ! Let him pound it Great game plan.

O.city · 10-04-2021, 09:08 AM

Throw it all over the yard in the first three quarters then salt it away in the fourth with the run.

The offense in 2021 is the best it’s been since Mahomes got here. If they wouldn’t have turned it over like dumb jackasses, they’d be averaging, not scoring occasionally, ****ing averaging 40 points and be sitting at 4-0.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

It's not about homeruns. It's about getting TDs in the red zone. A little more burst at RB, like Damien had, would help us out immensely there.

It was a problem last year, and is a problem this year. Mahomes can't shovel every TD in.

CEH is fine for now but don't pay him.

A legitimate possession WR would help more.

And that's definitely been a problem for a few years. We just don't have enough size (it was especially obvious when Watkins was hurt).

Hill can do some amazing stuff in a phone-booth to create space, but when you're in the red zone and there's less grass to cover, you need a guy who can just go get the football and present a big target. That forces teams to be more aware of the shorter zones.

Obviously Kelce is Plan A there, but there's not much of a plan B apart from those RPO actions that can sometimes free Hill up off the line.

A healthy Watkins was huge in that regard and Gordon very well could be.

As for the rest - again, short-yardage rushing is more about your OL. The biggest problem last year in the red zone and short yardage run game was an OL that just couldn't get any push. This line is a much different animal and Clyde can absolutely take advantage of it.

duncan_idaho · 10-04-2021, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Without 4 turnovers the Chiefs could've put you in at RB and been fine against the Chargers. Its amazing how quickly we forget how easily the Chiefs moved the ball in that game because guys had butterfingers.

And again - you're missing the point here. I'm not saying going out there and being the 2020 Bills is a great plan (though the Chiefs weren't far removed from that last season). I'm saying that the Chiefs are already equipped for a sufficient running game to keep teams honest. The OL they have and the RBs they have can do that. They just have to execute better than they have been.

The Chiefs should still run the ball less often through the first 3 quarters than any team in the league. They should still run the ball less often than any team in the league on 1st downs. They should still see the running game as nothing more than a complement to their passing game. And if they do nothing more than use the running game to force teams out of sell-out tendencies, they will remain the most prolific offense in football.

They have more than enough firepower to do that.

This idea that we should be handing the ball off 25 times/gm to 'keep teams honest' is just wrong. You don't need to do that. 15 times against soft boxes and in short yardage situations is plenty adequate.

Folks, our own defense just isn't good enough to go out there and hold teams down in tight ballgames. You don't want it on their racket. And tilting the knob more towards a ball-control offense will do nothing but keep games closer for longer and put more pressure on a defense that just isn't good enough for that. You don't want the game shortened. You want this offense to stay on the attack and put opposing offenses into more do or die situations that allows the defense to simply its approach.

We aren't built to be a run first team. Or even a 60/40 pass/run team. Everything on this team is built to get a lead and press the advantage. Trying to emphasize the run game is to play into exactly what your opponent wants you to do.

Yeah, I keep seeing folks say "The Chargers have found something against the Chiefs' offense" based on the Week 3 game, and it just doesn't hold up.

The Chiefs cut through that defense, generally, like a hot knife through butter. The 3 early turnovers changed the entire course of the game. If Kemp catches the ball and scores (like he should have) and the uncharacteristic fumbles by Hill and CEH don't happen, you're adding at least 13 points to the board for KC.

The game is likely 10-0, possibly 14-0, entering the second quarter, in KC's favor, and the Chiefs having gained around 150 yards.

When CEH fumble occurs, they were in FG range and facing 2nd and 7. That's likely at least 3 more points, which makes it 17-6 at that point. Here's how the rest of the scoring would have progressed from that point:

17-14 after Chargers TD + 2 PC
20-14 after Chiefs FG
Halftime
27-14 after Chiefs opening TD drive
34-14 after Chiefs force punt and get ball back and score TD
34-21 after Chargers TD at start of 4th
41-21 after Chiefs TD with 6:43 left on the clock

That game was a blowout in disguise. People just aren't seeing it.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Throw it all over the yard in the first three quarters then salt it away in the fourth with the run.

The offense in 2021 is the best it’s been since Mahomes got here. If they wouldn’t have turned it over like dumb jackasses, they’d be averaging, not scoring occasionally, ****ing averaging 40 points and be sitting at 4-0.

Yup.

Nothing has so much has slowed this offense down apart from shooting itself in the foot.

"We need someone who can keep teams honest to prevent them from locking down Kelce and Hill..."

Who's done that? So far the only teams that have been able to so much as lock one of them down have then been gouged by the other one. The only way to slow down Hill and Kelce is to harass Mahomes and the changes on the OL have made that MUCH more difficult.

The offense is excellent as presently constructed. There's no need to go out there making things easier for the opposition by focusing on a less efficient, less productive way of moving the football.

O.city · 10-04-2021, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yup.

Nothing has so much has slowed this offense down apart from shooting itself in the foot.

"We need someone who can keep teams honest to prevent them from locking down Kelce and Hill..."

Who's done that? So far the only teams that have been able to so much as lock one of them down have then been gouged by the other one. The only way to slow down Hill and Kelce is to harass Mahomes and the changes on the OL have made that MUCH more difficult.

The offense is excellent as presently constructed. There's no need to go out there making things easier for the opposition by focusing on a less efficient, less productive way of moving the football.

I’m skeptical he will be but if you get a decent Josh Gordon…I’m just not sure what you do.

Hope they go full chargers and fumble it away? That’s about your best bet.

Bl00dyBizkitz · 10-04-2021, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

He's "fine" if he continues to protect the ball.

We should still upgrade.

You might be right. But how about we upgrade our absolutely atrocious defense first and then focus on if CEH needs to take a hike?

Its just like the last 2 years. If our defense is AT LEAST middle of the road, we're Super Bowl contenders.

staylor26 · 10-04-2021, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Throw it all over the yard in the first three quarters then salt it away in the fourth with the run.

The offense in 2021 is the best it’s been since Mahomes got here. If they wouldn’t have turned it over like dumb jackasses, they’d be averaging, not scoring occasionally, ****ing averaging 40 points and be sitting at 4-0.

I know people like to believe that we were just SO much better with Hunt, but the truth is he had 1 100 yard game that season, and he had less than 4 YPC in more than 1/3 of the games he was available.

Now, a lot of that has to do with the OL, but this fantasy that we were way better with Hunt is just that.

**BigRedChief** · 10-04-2021, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YayMike

Yes. Yessir yepp! Know the strengths of each back and use them. The HOLES the interior line was opening up were insane!.

I could have ran through some of those massive holes. This Oline can run block its ass off.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I’m skeptical he will be but if you get a decent Josh Gordon…I’m just not sure what you do.

Hope they go full chargers and fumble it away? That’s about your best bet.

I'm more intrigued by how Mahomes utilized a true 'possession receiver' more than anything.

Will Mahomes get to a point where he's willing to throw a ball to Gordon when he's not conventionally 'open' with the belief that he'll go get the ball? And I don't mean the sort of 'throw him open' thing he does with Hill and Kelce.

I mean the sort of "that guy has 2 people draped on him but I'm pretty sure he can catch it anyway" kind of thing that Cassel did with Bowe because he just didn't have a plan B.

Because I don't expect that Gordon's going to go out there blazing past people or breaking open on triple moves. He's gonna have to use his body and his length to take balls away from guys. Will Mahomes use him that way when his entire time in this offense hasn't really been geared for it?

Hammock Parties · 10-04-2021, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

As for the rest - again, short-yardage rushing is more about your OL. The biggest problem last year in the red zone and short yardage run game was an OL that just couldn't get any push. This line is a much different animal and Clyde can absolutely take advantage of it.

I'm not even talking about short yardage.

When you're on the 10 yard line I want to be able to run a toss or stretch and a RB have enough burst to beat a guy to the pylon.

CEH doesn't have that burst. Damien DID. He scored a TD in the AFCCG to give us a 2-score lead just like this.

We're going to come up against a team who's coverage is good enough to shut our receivers down in the red zone. When that happens I would really like this team to have the ability to just get down their and force our will on the opponent.

Better blocking helps of course, but I do think having a faster RB would help immensely.

I'd like to see them run some designed plays where Hardman motions into the RB spot and gets the ball. You can build off that by faking it to him and letting him run circle routes out of the backfield.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I'm not even talking about short yardage.

When you're on the 10 yard line I want to be able to run a toss or stretch and a RB have enough burst to beat a guy to the pylon.

CEH doesn't have that burst. Damien DID.

We're going to come up against a team who's coverage is good enough to shut our receivers down in the red zone. When that happens I would really like this team to have the ability to just get down their and force our will on the opponent.

Better blocking helps of course, but I do think having a faster RB would help immensely.

I'd like to see them run some designed plays where Hardman motions into the RB spot and gets the ball. You can build off that by faking it to him and letting him run circle routes out of the backfield.

No, he probably doesn't.

But we also don't have the OL designed for that sort of approach. You still need someone that can curl and get a seal block in there. Or some really difficult reach block. Or a pulling G or something along those lines. Your OL has to be extremely athletic in space for those kinds of plays to work from that far out.

Ours just isn't that kind of OL. And to my eyes we intentionally got away from that when we moved on from more mobile guys like Fisher, Wylie and Schwartz and replaced them with straight up maulers like Brown, Niang and Smith.

The only RBs that could house one from 10 yards out by simply sprinting to the pylon are generationally fast guys - the CJ2K sorts. That's just not a reasonable expectation. No, Damien Williams wasn't just outrunning guys 10 yards past the LOS and blowing angles apart. He had athletic blockers that could get him that edge and then he could outrun a MLB. For most guys they need blockers that can get 1 or 2 key blocks in space. Our line's just not built for that.

O.city · 10-04-2021, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I'm not even talking about short yardage.

When you're on the 10 yard line I want to be able to run a toss or stretch and a RB have enough burst to beat a guy to the pylon.

CEH doesn't have that burst. Damien DID. He scored a TD in the AFCCG to give us a 2-score lead just like this.

We're going to come up against a team who's coverage is good enough to shut our receivers down in the red zone. When that happens I would really like this team to have the ability to just get down their and force our will on the opponent.

Better blocking helps of course, but I do think having a faster RB would help immensely.

I'd like to see them run some designed plays where Hardman motions into the RB spot and gets the ball. You can build off that by faking it to him and letting him run circle routes out of the backfield.

He doesn’t

Don’t ask him to, run straight ahead

Problem solved

duncan_idaho · 10-04-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

I'm not even talking about short yardage.

When you're on the 10 yard line I want to be able to run a toss or stretch and a RB have enough burst to beat a guy to the pylon.

CEH doesn't have that burst. Damien DID. He scored a TD in the AFCCG to give us a 2-score lead just like this.

We're going to come up against a team who's coverage is good enough to shut our receivers down in the red zone. When that happens I would really like this team to have the ability to just get down their and force our will on the opponent.

Better blocking helps of course, but I do think having a faster RB would help immensely.

I'd like to see them run some designed plays where Hardman motions into the RB spot and gets the ball. You can build off that by faking it to him and letting him run circle routes out of the backfield.

Having a WR who can fight through contact on slants and drags and also make high-point catch plays will help in those goal line situations as well.

And I also like the idea of using the jet sweep/pop pass threat action in the red zone to force defenses to defend horizontally. Should improve success rate in running the ball inside in tighter situations as well.

**notorious** · 10-04-2021, 09:31 AM

Chiefs are about to be in the top 5 for rushing yards, and it's not because they upgraded the RB position.......

04-23-2020, 10:09 PM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $-128004 VARSITY	***The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread* More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP) (mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags) Spoiler!** LET'S GEUAX!#NFLDraft on ESPN/ABC/NFLN pic.twitter.com/2dMSjTR9R9 — Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) April 24, 2020 Congratulations to my son. Mere words can’t explain the joy in my heart and soul. This was an EPIC moment & Well deserved. What GOD has for you ; it’s for you!❤️�� WE ARE CHIEFS ‼️❤️@Clydro_22 @NFL @NFLDraft @LSUfootball @Chiefs @Espn @SECNetwork pic.twitter.com/Pjo2SMLmM9 — Tonge' Helaire (@HelaireTonge) April 25, 2020 �� pic.twitter.com/9ZnxzAaZ4z — Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 24, 2020 Some fun here. Edwards-Helaire rushed for 1,415 yards and 16 touchdowns as a junior .. all-purpose yards -- receiving (55 receptions, 453 yards) and kick returner (KEY) 10 returns, 214 yards pic.twitter.com/3Duq1jjy6J — Harold R. Kuntz (@HaroldRKuntz3) April 24, 2020 Oh look, an extensive film review of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, who I wrote a few days ago is a PERFECT fit for Andy Reid's offense. Also... @jbbrisco... Oh man. Oh. Man. ��⚡️https://t.co/g6lbNonQ1o — Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) April 24, 2020 With the 32nd pick, the #Chiefs select Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU • PFF Big Board #4 RB, #81 Overall • #1 Run Grade among NCAA RBs (92.0) • Led SEC RBs in rush yards, receiving yards, rush TDs & YPC • NFL Comparison: Ray Ricehttps://t.co/eQoKvEmIss #ChiefsKingdom — PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) April 24, 2020 You got a good one, @chiefs CLYDRO pic.twitter.com/WyxKVgwTwS — LSU Football (@LSUfootball) April 24, 2020 Holy offense Bat Man. I love Clyde Edwards-Helaire. He is best Rb in the draft. Watkins and Hill deep. Kelce in the middle. And Edwards-Helaire underneath. Good Luck defenses. — Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) April 24, 2020 Brett Veach told Andy Reid to watch some Clyde Edwards-Helaire film and told Reid you’ll see Brian Westbrook. Reid watched. Then got back to Veach and said he’s better than Westbrook. — James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 24, 2020 Last edited by Bearcat; 04-28-2020 at 12:07 PM..
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10-04-2021, 09:08 AM	#3047
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $1094064	Throw it all over the yard in the first three quarters then salt it away in the fourth with the run. The offense in 2021 is the best it’s been since Mahomes got here. If they wouldn’t have turned it over like dumb jackasses, they’d be averaging, not scoring occasionally, ****ing averaging 40 points and be sitting at 4-0.
Posts: 82,883

10-04-2021, 09:31 AM	#3060
notorious Supporter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Who knows? Casino cash: $965884	Chiefs are about to be in the top 5 for rushing yards, and it's not because they upgraded the RB position.......
Posts: 86,394