New Conference re-alignment thread

[Saulbadguy]

The old one has AIDS.

Anyways, Chip Brown from Orangebloods.com reports OU may apply to the Pac-12 by the end of the month.

Oklahoma will apply for membership to the Pac-12 before the end of the month, and Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit, a source close to OU's administration told Orangebloods.com.

Even though Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Friday the Pac-12 was not interested in expansion at this time, OU's board of regents is fed up with the instability in the Big 12, the source said.

The OU board of regents will meet within two weeks to formalize plans to apply for membership to the Pac-12, the source said.

Messages left Sunday night with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione and Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder were not immediately returned.

If OU follows through with what appears to be a unanimous sentiment on the seven-member Oklahoma board of regents to leave the Big 12, realignment in college athletics could be heating back up. OU's application would be matched by an application from Oklahoma State, the source said, even though OSU president Burns Hargis and mega-booster Boone Pickens both voiced their support for the Big 12 last Thursday.

There is differing sentiment about if the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors are ready to expand again after bringing in Colorado and Utah last year and landing $3 billion TV contracts from Fox and ESPN. Colorado president Bruce Benson told reporters last week CU would be opposed to any expansion that might bring about east and west divisions in the Pac-12.

Currently, there are north and south divisions in the Pac-12. If OU and OSU were to join, Larry Scott would have to get creative.

Scott's orginal plan last summer was to bring in Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and put them in an eastern division with Arizona and Arizona State. The old Pac-8 schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State) were to be in the west division.

Colorado made the move in June 2010, but when Texas A&M was not on board to go west, the Big 12 came back together with the help of its television partners (ABC/ESPN and Fox).

If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were accepted into the Pac-12, there would undoubtedly be a hope by Larry Scott that Texas would join the league. But Texas sources have indicated UT is determined to hang onto the Longhorn Network, which would not be permissible in the Pac-12 in its current form.

Texas sources continue to indicate to Orangebloods.com that if the Big 12 falls apart, the Longhorns would consider "all options."

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe held an emergency conference call 10 days ago with league presidents excluding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M and asked the other league presidents to "work on Texas" because Beebe didn't think the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma without Texas.

Now, it appears OU is willing to take its chances with the Pac-12 with or without Texas.

There seemed to be a temporary pause in any possible shifting of the college athletics' landscape when Baylor led a charge to tie up Texas A&M's move to the Southeastern Conference in legal red tape. BU refused to waive its right to sue the SEC over A&M's departure from the Big 12, and the SEC said it would not admit Texas A&M until it had been cleared of any potential lawsuits.

Baylor, Kansas and Iowa State have indicated they will not waive their right to sue the SEC.

It's unclear if an application by OU to the Pac-12 would draw the same threats of litigation against the Pac-12 from those Big 12 schools.

Stay tuned.

[|Zach|]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ar-may-be-dead

We just got done dissecting Missouri's decision to officially pursue its conference expansion options. The move could put the Big 12 in jeopardy, or at least force it to be more aggressive in its own expansion efforts. Its greatest effect could be on teams like Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State and the like -- schools that desperately need that revenue-sharing agreement to hold up, desperately need Texas and Oklahoma to stay put, desperately need to keep the Big 12 together to avoid scrambling for a spot at a less-sensible table.

Needless to say, Missouri's move did not make Kansas coach Bill Self happy. Late Tuesday night, Self told the Lawrence Journal-World that if Missouri goes through with a move to the SEC, he would probably decline to schedule Missouri in a non-conference game each season. That move would effectively kill the Border War (or Border Showdown, if you prefer an anesthetized and politically correct terminology) rivalry -- one of the and mostly deep historic and heated rivalries in college hoops. To wit:

“To me it’s a great rivalry, one of the best in college basketball without question, but I don’t think I would be interested in having a once a year game like I did when I was at Illinois, playing Missouri,” Self told the Journal-World on Tuesday night. [...] “If they choose to be somewhere other than with us and with the other schools that they’ve been a part of and could jeopardize the future of the other schools ... I’m not going to make a commitment now that we’d ever play again. I’m not saying we won’t. I’m certainly not going to pretend that we would.”

The Journal-World suggested to Self that fans, and therefore the media, would clamor for a continuation of the classic series. His answer? I don't care:

“I’m not saying it would be bad or won’t be bad (playing once on neutral court). I will say this ... the media is not going to dictate who we play. I’ll dictate who we play as long as I’m coaching here,” Self said. “I have no ill will toward Missouri at all, but to do something at a time that could be so damaging and hurtful to a group, I can’t see us just taking it and forgetting."

It's hard to disagree. Missouri's self-interested move, whatever the reasons and motivations behind it -- and you can argue those motivations are understandable even if you think Mizzou is biting off a bit more than it can chew -- puts Kansas, perhaps more than any other school, in jeopardy. The Jayhawks don't have many outs. They're a basketball-first school that has failed to attract any expansion interest from the Big Ten or SEC; for a while there, we were wondering whether Kansas would have to join the Mountain West. Why would Self not want to punish Missouri for indirectly putting his program in that position? Why wouldn't he prefer to see Missouri hoops languish in the SEC? At the very least, he's not going to say everything will be hunky-dory -- oh, go ahead, Missouri, best of luck, and see you at the Border Showdown in 2012!

No, Self is making clear that there are sacrifices to leaving your league. One of them is traditional regional rivalries. If Missouri is OK with that, then that's its prerogative. But if the Tigers prefer the SEC to the Big 12 for financial reasons, they shouldn't be shocked when their old mates decide they'd rather not speak anymore. That's just part of the bargain.

And this is why we complain about conference realignment. Since 1907, Missouri and Kansas have engaged in an uninterrupted rivalry. The matchup has been a reflection of long-standing regional animosity, the kind that inspires small towns to write letters -- in 2011, mind you -- complaining about the "offensive" use of the term "Jayhawk." I mean, it is (was) called the Border War. You don't have to be a Kansas or Missouri fan to appreciate this kind of rivalry.

Then conference realignment comes along, and Missouri decides its centuries-old rivalries with hated neighbor schools aren't worth as much as an invitation to a league with which it has no historic, geographic or competitive relationship. Why? More money.

Rivalries make college hoops great. Realignment makes rivalries obsolete. Whining about conference realignment is played out, but if you want to know why the whine-fest continues, look no further.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade

I guess what I'm saying is if they had built the Sprint Center in Johnson County, then yes, the BB Tournament would stay there. It has nothing to do with the number of fans in KC. The tournament is an economic boon to the city that hosts it, specifically the Power and Light district. So, why give that to a metro area who is in SEC territory. It doesn't make any sense.

I don't say that because I wouldn't love for the Tournament to stay in KC. I don't even live there any longer, but it still has a great place in my heart and this potential move by the Tiger is just going to shred the city of part of its identity.

The time zone thing is important because you are asking the majority of the conference to move to a fringe (and colder) part of the conference. The South doesn't like to do cold.

Oh please, it is not that cold in Missouri in March. And moving the Sprint Center five miles into Johnson county would not make KC any more viable to hold the BIG XII tournament here. Outside of metro KC, no one sees a difference between downtown KC and Johnson County anyway. Hell, outside the metro, most folks can't even tell the difference between KCMO and KCKS, with most folks thinking KC is in Kansas to begin with.

If the KC metro is now SEC territory, then you can't claim it is a KU town, which most KU fans in this thread have been touting for days now. If KC is a KU town, then that makes KC Big XII country by default.

[eazyb81]

How am I not surprised that ku fans have somehow found a way to interject ku basketball into a conference realignment thread?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Self sounds like a jilted girlfriend and MU hasn't even left.

[Jerm]

Sooooo Mizzou should make a wrong move for itself and sacrifice to help out.......Kansas???

LOL ok.

I'm glad Deaton and co. are finally looking out for what's best for MIZZOU...not Kansas, the Big XII, or anyone else.

If the Border War were to be lost yeah it'd suck but the excitement and intrigue over creating new rivalries in the SEC would be ok with me.

[eazyb81]

and for ****s sake, a basketball tournament or football championship game might not make a top 50 list of priorities for Mizzou when making this decision.

[HolyHandgernade]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

If the KU-MU rivalry dies, that is on KU, since Self is saying he is unwilling to schedule Mizzou, which reeks of spite and envy.

I love how MU should just stay and do whatever KU wants to keep the rivalry going, but KU can't do anything to maintain it. A non-conference game with Mizzou at Sprint Center would be great for KC, and a great recruiting tool for both Self and whomever we get to replace Haith once he is fired.

Or maybe Self is just scared of Mizzou now that it seems Mizzou has grown a pair? Could KU be chicken?

Yeah, that's it. So, Mizzou decides its going to look elsewhere, keeps the conference the Jayhawks are in, in limbo and may actually leave, thereby devaluing the conference as a whole, which in turn means less money per school... and that's on the Jayhawks?

Look, if you guys really believe your best interests are going to a conference you have no tradition with and less competitive power, then that's on you. We want you to stay. We want to continue the rivalry as a conference rivalry. We have no interest in seeing you go, make more money, and then contributing more money to a foreign conference city. Why you think these things can just "remain the same" is beyond me. The only way this rivalry will renew if you leave is if the Big XII dissolves in the future and we somehow end up in the B1G or PAC.

But you guys are spitting on the conference rivalry first, if you leave, you have to own that.

[HolyHandgernade]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

How am I not surprised that ku fans have somehow found a way to interject ku basketball into a conference realignment thread?

Why, you bring it up each time. Can it really be a surprise if you remark on it each time?

[Saulbadguy]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

How am I not surprised that ku fans have somehow found a way to interject ku basketball into a conference realignment thread?

HHG is a complete dumbass, please ignore.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade

Yeah, that's it. So, Mizzou decides its going to look elsewhere, keeps the conference the Jayhawks are in, in limbo and may actually leave, thereby devaluing the conference as a whole, which in turn means less money per school... and that's on the Jayhawks?

Look, if you guys really believe your best interests are going to a conference you have no tradition with and less competitive power, then that's on you. We want you to stay. We want to continue the rivalry as a conference rivalry. We have no interest in seeing you go, make more money, and then contributing more money to a foreign conference city. Why you think these things can just "remain the same" is beyond me. The only way this rivalry will renew if you leave is if the Big XII dissolves in the future and we somehow end up in the B1G or PAC.

But you guys are spitting on the conference rivalry first, if you leave, you have to own that.

Say what you will, but if Mizzou offers to play KU in the non-con and KU says no, that's on KU.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by |Zach|

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...ar-may-be-dead

We just got done dissecting Missouri's decision to officially pursue its conference expansion options. The move could put the Big 12 in jeopardy, or at least force it to be more aggressive in its own expansion efforts. Its greatest effect could be on teams like Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State and the like -- schools that desperately need that revenue-sharing agreement to hold up, desperately need Texas and Oklahoma to stay put, desperately need to keep the Big 12 together to avoid scrambling for a spot at a less-sensible table.

Needless to say, Missouri's move did not make Kansas coach Bill Self happy. Late Tuesday night, Self told the Lawrence Journal-World that if Missouri goes through with a move to the SEC, he would probably decline to schedule Missouri in a non-conference game each season. That move would effectively kill the Border War (or Border Showdown, if you prefer an anesthetized and politically correct terminology) rivalry -- one of the and mostly deep historic and heated rivalries in college hoops. To wit:

“To me it’s a great rivalry, one of the best in college basketball without question, but I don’t think I would be interested in having a once a year game like I did when I was at Illinois, playing Missouri,” Self told the Journal-World on Tuesday night. [...] “If they choose to be somewhere other than with us and with the other schools that they’ve been a part of and could jeopardize the future of the other schools ... I’m not going to make a commitment now that we’d ever play again. I’m not saying we won’t. I’m certainly not going to pretend that we would.”

The Journal-World suggested to Self that fans, and therefore the media, would clamor for a continuation of the classic series. His answer? I don't care:

“I’m not saying it would be bad or won’t be bad (playing once on neutral court). I will say this ... the media is not going to dictate who we play. I’ll dictate who we play as long as I’m coaching here,” Self said. “I have no ill will toward Missouri at all, but to do something at a time that could be so damaging and hurtful to a group, I can’t see us just taking it and forgetting."

It's hard to disagree. Missouri's self-interested move, whatever the reasons and motivations behind it -- and you can argue those motivations are understandable even if you think Mizzou is biting off a bit more than it can chew -- puts Kansas, perhaps more than any other school, in jeopardy. The Jayhawks don't have many outs. They're a basketball-first school that has failed to attract any expansion interest from the Big Ten or SEC; for a while there, we were wondering whether Kansas would have to join the Mountain West. Why would Self not want to punish Missouri for indirectly putting his program in that position? Why wouldn't he prefer to see Missouri hoops languish in the SEC? At the very least, he's not going to say everything will be hunky-dory -- oh, go ahead, Missouri, best of luck, and see you at the Border Showdown in 2012!

No, Self is making clear that there are sacrifices to leaving your league. One of them is traditional regional rivalries. If Missouri is OK with that, then that's its prerogative. But if the Tigers prefer the SEC to the Big 12 for financial reasons, they shouldn't be shocked when their old mates decide they'd rather not speak anymore. That's just part of the bargain.

And this is why we complain about conference realignment. Since 1907, Missouri and Kansas have engaged in an uninterrupted rivalry. The matchup has been a reflection of long-standing regional animosity, the kind that inspires small towns to write letters -- in 2011, mind you -- complaining about the "offensive" use of the term "Jayhawk." I mean, it is (was) called the Border War. You don't have to be a Kansas or Missouri fan to appreciate this kind of rivalry.

Then conference realignment comes along, and Missouri decides its centuries-old rivalries with hated neighbor schools aren't worth as much as an invitation to a league with which it has no historic, geographic or competitive relationship. Why? More money.

Rivalries make college hoops great. Realignment makes rivalries obsolete. Whining about conference realignment is played out, but if you want to know why the whine-fest continues, look no further.

If the only way KU is going to be happy is for Mizzou to bend over and get screwed, then I guess KU is going to have to be unhappy. There are two sides to a rivalry, and Mizzou is willing to show up and play, regardless of conference affiliation. If KU wants to end it, then that is on them. Don't sit there and blame Mizzou for moving to a better neighborhood.

KU seems to be saying they only want to play Mizzou on their terms and by their rules. Screw that, about time the Tigers stood up for themselves.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade

Look, if you guys really believe your best interests are going to a conference you have no tradition with and less competitive power, then that's on you. We want you to stay. We want to continue the rivalry as a conference rivalry. We have no interest in seeing you go, make more money, and then contributing more money to a foreign conference city. Why you think these things can just "remain the same" is beyond me. The only way this rivalry will renew if you leave is if the Big XII dissolves in the future and we somehow end up in the B1G or PAC.

LOL, so you won't contribute money to a "foreign conference city" while in the Big 12, but you will if you actually end up in a good conference.

And this has NOTHING to do with jealousy or spite. Nothing at all.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

If the only way KU is going to be happy is for Mizzou to bend over and get screwed, then I guess KU is going to have to be unhappy. There are two sides to a rivalry, and Mizzou is willing to show up and play, regardless of conference affiliation. If KU wants to end it, then that is on them. Don't sit there and blame Mizzou for moving to a better neighborhood.

KU seems to be saying they only want to play Mizzou on their terms and by their rules. Screw that, about time the Tigers stood up for themselves.

Exactly. KU wants to say that MU shouldn't leave because KU/MU is a great rivalry. At the same time, they are trying to say that they only play us because the conference requires it. Which is it? Is it a game that should be played because it's a great rivalry, or is it a game that should be played just because it's on the schedule every year?

[|Zach|]

Everyone is free to act in their own self interests. Missouri knows there are far reaching consequences to their actions. This can't be a surprise.

[HolyHandgernade]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

Say what you will, but if Mizzou offers to play KU in the non-con and KU says no, that's on KU.

I can live with that.