Chiefs ****The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread***** - Page 203

Dante84 · 12:07 PM

More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP)

(mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags)

Spoiler!

jettio · 10-04-2021, 08:10 AM

Interesting to watch the post game pressers yesterday.

Reid kidded around with how "mean" the reporters and fans can be when answering a question about Clyde's approach.

Clyde's gave good answers about preparing for games no different no matter how much criticism he gets from reporters and fans.

The way I see it, if his coaches and teammates believe in him and see him as the clear RB 1 for this team. I trust their opinions more than the opinions of some reporters and some fans.

Hammock Parties · 10-04-2021, 08:19 AM

He's "fine" if he continues to protect the ball.

We should still upgrade.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

He's "fine" if he continues to protect the ball.

We should still upgrade.

I just don't care.

The running game is so damn secondary on this team that it's only the mists of the Marty era that still has some people as focused on it as they are.

On a bad day passing the football we pass for 7.5 YPA attempt. On an amazing day running it, we run for 7.3 YPA. I just don't care about getting some HR hitter RB in here when all a hand-off does is take the ball out of Mahomes hands.

If we can stumble into one with a 4th round pick or some cast-off RB that doesn't take up any cap space - sure, why not? But that's not terribly likely.

Instead we should focus on getting younger with our pass catchers and improving our pass defense. Be that the DL, safeties or continuing to improve the athleticism at LB. This team is built to score points in the air and do so quickly, then put pressure on the opposing offense to respond in kind.

Play to you strengths. The CEH draft pick is a sunk cost. If he's going out there and taking advantage of soft boxes while getting the yardage his line can power block for him in short yardage situations - that's good enough to focus your cap space and draft capital elsewhere.

Deberg_1990 · 10-04-2021, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just don't care.

The running game is so damn secondary on this team that it's only the mists of the Marty era that still has some people as focused on it as they are.

On a bad day passing the football we pass for 7.5 YPA attempt. On an amazing day running it, we run for 7.3 YPA. I just don't care about getting some HR hitter RB in here when all a hand-off does is take the ball out of Mahomes hands.

If we can stumble into one with a 4th round pick or some cast-off RB that doesn't take up any cap space - sure, why not? But that's not terribly likely.

Instead we should focus on getting younger with our pass catchers and improving our pass defense. Be that the DL, safeties or continuing to improve the athleticism at LB. This team is built to score points in the air and do so quickly, then put pressure on the opposing offense to respond in kind.

Play to you strengths. The CEH draft pick is a sunk cost. If he's going out there and taking advantage of soft boxes while getting the yardage his line can power block for him in short yardage situations - that's good enough to focus your cap space and draft capital elsewhere.

This 100%. CEH isn’t a superstar, but he’s more than serviceable for this team.

**penguinz** · 10-04-2021, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The running game is so damn secondary on this team that it's only the mists of the Marty era that still has some people as focused on it as they are.

This could not be more wrong. This team needs a strong running game that the opposing D has to account for.

Without the threat of the run yesterday we do not win.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz

This could not be more wrong. This team needs a strong running game that the opposing D has to account for.

Without the threat of the run yesterday we do not win.

This team has gone to 2 Super Bowls and won one of them with, at best, a pedestrian running attack.

It averaged nearly 40 points/gm in the first 3 weeks with a running game that just wasn't working terribly well and lost a game precisely because of its insistence on running the football.

"A running game the team has to account for" can absolutely be had just as it was yesterday - by doing nothing more than picking on soft boxes and getting the yards that are blocked. You don't need a star RB for that. CEH can be that guy and WAS that guy yesterday. He's good enough for that.

People still overestimate how good your running game has to be to force teams into decision points. A running game that is nothing more than an average half-back picking up yards against soft boxes when they're provided is enough to force teams out of those soft boxes. You don't need a guy that can outrun the edge and house one to get teams out of deep safety sets. You just need exactly what CEH can do when he's running the ball with the purpose he ran it with last week.

This team has more than enough talent both on the OL and in the offensive backfield to keep teams honest. And that's all they need to have.

Hammock Parties · 10-04-2021, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

On a bad day passing the football we pass for 7.5 YPA attempt. On an amazing day running it, we run for 7.3 YPA. I just don't care about getting some HR hitter RB in here when all a hand-off does is take the ball out of Mahomes hands.

It's not about homeruns. It's about getting TDs in the red zone. A little more burst at RB, like Damien had, would help us out immensely there.

It was a problem last year, and is a problem this year. Mahomes can't shovel every TD in.

CEH is fine for now but don't pay him.

**penguinz** · 10-04-2021, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This team has gone to 2 Super Bowls and won one of them with, at best, a pedestrian running attack.

It averaged nearly 40 points/gm in the first 3 weeks with a running game that just wasn't working terribly well and lost a game precisely because of its insistence on running the football.

"A running game the team has to account for" can absolutely be had just as it was yesterday - by doing nothing more than picking on soft boxes and getting the yards that are blocked. You don't need a star RB for that. CEH can be that guy and WAS that guy yesterday. He's good enough for that.

People still overestimate how good your running game has to be to force teams into decision points. A running game that is nothing more than an average half-back picking up yards against soft boxes when they're provided is enough to force teams out of those soft boxes. You don't need a guy that can outrun the edge and house one to get teams out of deep safety sets. You just need exactly what CEH can do when he's running the ball with the purpose he ran it with last week.

This team has more than enough talent both on the OL and in the offensive backfield to keep teams honest. And that's all they need to have.

This is not 2019 or 2020. Teams are playing KC different now. Without the running game we do not win yesterday or have a chance against the Chargers in week 3.

Maybe that will change if Gordon is able to take attention away from Hill and Kelce.

MGRS13 · 10-04-2021, 08:50 AM

The running game is incredibly important to this team. Andy has to use it to keep the opposing teams offense off the field. Sealing games running the ball is incredibly important to this current team. Andy has to manage the clock with a running game because he knows if he gives the ball back with less the 45 seconds to go and less then a one score lead he losses. The cure defense is so bad they are effectively eliminating the Mahomes factor. Scoring quick is not advantageous for this team because the defense is that bad.

duncan_idaho · 10-04-2021, 08:52 AM

Edwards-Helaire has looked strong both of the past 2 weeks. If he keeps performing at this level, I don't see anything to be concerned about re: him or the running game.

Two things stand out to me as different in these games:

1) The OL and RB are getting more on the same page. He seems to have a better feel for where a lineman is going to take his guy, and is doing a better job managing the holes.

2) The playcalling has adjusted. They aren't trying to go sideline-to-sideline with Edwards-Helaire on the outside zone stretches. They're running inside zone, primarily, and he's thriving.

I still don't understand why he isn't more of a factor in the passing game... and would still like to see him used more there (especially since they've been going empty a lot, anyway), but no real complaints here.

The Chiefs needed an offensive line and running back combo that could punish light boxes. It's finding that combination and making teams pay for it (even when they have good DL personnel. That Eagles unit would have been been able to handle the run while still dropping 6-7 into coverage every down against last season's OL).

smithandrew051 · 10-04-2021, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Edwards-Helaire has looked strong both of the past 2 weeks. If he keeps performing at this level, I don't see anything to be concerned about re: him or the running game.

Two things stand out to me as different in these games:

1) The OL and RB are getting more on the same page. He seems to have a better feel for where a lineman is going to take his guy, and is doing a better job managing the holes.

2) The playcalling has adjusted. They aren't trying to go sideline-to-sideline with Edwards-Helaire on the outside zone stretches. They're running inside zone, primarily, and he's thriving.

I still don't understand why he isn't more of a factor in the passing game... and would still like to see him used more there (especially since they've been going empty a lot, anyway), but no real complaints here.

The Chiefs needed an offensive line and running back combo that could punish light boxes. It's finding that combination and making teams pay for it (even when they have good DL personnel. That Eagles unit would have been been able to handle the run while still dropping 6-7 into coverage every down against last season's OL).

Agree 100%.

With this running game, Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill…damn we’re hard to stop. If we even get a solid WR2 out of Gordon….good Lord.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz

This is not 2019 or 2020. Teams are playing KC different now. Without the running game we do not win yesterday or have a chance against the Chargers in week 3.

Maybe that will change if Gordon is able to take attention away from Hill and Kelce.

Without 4 turnovers the Chiefs could've put you in at RB and been fine against the Chargers. Its amazing how quickly we forget how easily the Chiefs moved the ball in that game because guys had butterfingers.

And again - you're missing the point here. I'm not saying going out there and being the 2020 Bills is a great plan (though the Chiefs weren't far removed from that last season). I'm saying that the Chiefs are already equipped for a sufficient running game to keep teams honest. The OL they have and the RBs they have can do that. They just have to execute better than they have been.

The Chiefs should still run the ball less often through the first 3 quarters than any team in the league. They should still run the ball less often than any team in the league on 1st downs. They should still see the running game as nothing more than a complement to their passing game. And if they do nothing more than use the running game to force teams out of sell-out tendencies, they will remain the most prolific offense in football.

They have more than enough firepower to do that.

This idea that we should be handing the ball off 25 times/gm to 'keep teams honest' is just wrong. You don't need to do that. 15 times against soft boxes and in short yardage situations is plenty adequate.

Folks, our own defense just isn't good enough to go out there and hold teams down in tight ballgames. You don't want it on their racket. And tilting the knob more towards a ball-control offense will do nothing but keep games closer for longer and put more pressure on a defense that just isn't good enough for that. You don't want the game shortened. You want this offense to stay on the attack and put opposing offenses into more do or die situations that allows the defense to simply its approach.

We aren't built to be a run first team. Or even a 60/40 pass/run team. Everything on this team is built to get a lead and press the advantage. Trying to emphasize the run game is to play into exactly what your opponent wants you to do.

Marcellus · 10-04-2021, 08:59 AM

7th in the league in rushing yards in this offense is pretty damn good.

DJ's left nut · 10-04-2021, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Edwards-Helaire has looked strong both of the past 2 weeks. If he keeps performing at this level, I don't see anything to be concerned about re: him or the running game.

Two things stand out to me as different in these games:

1) The OL and RB are getting more on the same page. He seems to have a better feel for where a lineman is going to take his guy, and is doing a better job managing the holes.

2) The playcalling has adjusted. They aren't trying to go sideline-to-sideline with Edwards-Helaire on the outside zone stretches. They're running inside zone, primarily, and he's thriving.

I still don't understand why he isn't more of a factor in the passing game... and would still like to see him used more there (especially since they've been going empty a lot, anyway), but no real complaints here.

The Chiefs needed an offensive line and running back combo that could punish light boxes. It's finding that combination and making teams pay for it (even when they have good DL personnel. That Eagles unit would have been been able to handle the run while still dropping 6-7 into coverage every down against last season's OL).

This is the most critical point.

For whatever reason they were focused on outside zone early in the season. And that's super-strange since many of us looked at the personnel they brought in and thought they might get out of a zone-blocking system altogether. They don't have the OL to do that terribly well, let alone the RB.

By emphasizing the inside zone (which still seems slightly more complicated and unnecessary given the strength of the OL) they've been able to be more than good enough running the football.

staylor26 · 10-04-2021, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

7th in the league in rushing yards in this offense is pretty damn good.

If you aren’t 1st you’re JAG - Tribal Warfare

04-23-2020, 10:09 PM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $-118004 VARSITY	***The Clyde Edwards-Helaire Thread* More to come! (I'll clean it up later - info dump into the OP) (mod edit, all the goodness is in the spoiler tags) Spoiler!** LET'S GEUAX!#NFLDraft on ESPN/ABC/NFLN pic.twitter.com/2dMSjTR9R9 — Kansas City Chiefs (@Chiefs) April 24, 2020 Congratulations to my son. Mere words can’t explain the joy in my heart and soul. This was an EPIC moment & Well deserved. What GOD has for you ; it’s for you!❤️�� WE ARE CHIEFS ‼️❤️@Clydro_22 @NFL @NFLDraft @LSUfootball @Chiefs @Espn @SECNetwork pic.twitter.com/Pjo2SMLmM9 — Tonge' Helaire (@HelaireTonge) April 25, 2020 �� pic.twitter.com/9ZnxzAaZ4z — Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 24, 2020 Some fun here. Edwards-Helaire rushed for 1,415 yards and 16 touchdowns as a junior .. all-purpose yards -- receiving (55 receptions, 453 yards) and kick returner (KEY) 10 returns, 214 yards pic.twitter.com/3Duq1jjy6J — Harold R. Kuntz (@HaroldRKuntz3) April 24, 2020 Oh look, an extensive film review of Clyde Edwards-Helaire, who I wrote a few days ago is a PERFECT fit for Andy Reid's offense. Also... @jbbrisco... Oh man. Oh. Man. ��⚡️https://t.co/g6lbNonQ1o — Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) April 24, 2020 With the 32nd pick, the #Chiefs select Clyde Edwards-Helaire, RB, LSU • PFF Big Board #4 RB, #81 Overall • #1 Run Grade among NCAA RBs (92.0) • Led SEC RBs in rush yards, receiving yards, rush TDs & YPC • NFL Comparison: Ray Ricehttps://t.co/eQoKvEmIss #ChiefsKingdom — PFF KC Chiefs (@PFF_Chiefs) April 24, 2020 You got a good one, @chiefs CLYDRO pic.twitter.com/WyxKVgwTwS — LSU Football (@LSUfootball) April 24, 2020 Holy offense Bat Man. I love Clyde Edwards-Helaire. He is best Rb in the draft. Watkins and Hill deep. Kelce in the middle. And Edwards-Helaire underneath. Good Luck defenses. — Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) April 24, 2020 Brett Veach told Andy Reid to watch some Clyde Edwards-Helaire film and told Reid you’ll see Brian Westbrook. Reid watched. Then got back to Veach and said he’s better than Westbrook. — James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 24, 2020 Last edited by Bearcat; 04-28-2020 at 12:07 PM..
Posts: 20,094

10-04-2021, 08:10 AM	#3031
jettio MVP Join Date: Sep 2002 Casino cash: $4814930	Interesting to watch the post game pressers yesterday. Reid kidded around with how "mean" the reporters and fans can be when answering a question about Clyde's approach. Clyde's gave good answers about preparing for games no different no matter how much criticism he gets from reporters and fans. The way I see it, if his coaches and teammates believe in him and see him as the clear RB 1 for this team. I trust their opinions more than the opinions of some reporters and some fans. __________________ Where Ignorance is Bliss, 'Tis Folly to be Wise. __
Posts: 11,031

10-04-2021, 08:19 AM	#3032
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $2760478	He's "fine" if he continues to protect the ball. We should still upgrade. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 288,722

10-04-2021, 08:50 AM	#3039
MGRS13 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Home in KC Casino cash: $10074930	The running game is incredibly important to this team. Andy has to use it to keep the opposing teams offense off the field. Sealing games running the ball is incredibly important to this current team. Andy has to manage the clock with a running game because he knows if he gives the ball back with less the 45 seconds to go and less then a one score lead he losses. The cure defense is so bad they are effectively eliminating the Mahomes factor. Scoring quick is not advantageous for this team because the defense is that bad. __________________ There’s a gleam!
Posts: 4,217

10-04-2021, 08:52 AM	#3040
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-179692	Edwards-Helaire has looked strong both of the past 2 weeks. If he keeps performing at this level, I don't see anything to be concerned about re: him or the running game. Two things stand out to me as different in these games: 1) The OL and RB are getting more on the same page. He seems to have a better feel for where a lineman is going to take his guy, and is doing a better job managing the holes. 2) The playcalling has adjusted. They aren't trying to go sideline-to-sideline with Edwards-Helaire on the outside zone stretches. They're running inside zone, primarily, and he's thriving. I still don't understand why he isn't more of a factor in the passing game... and would still like to see him used more there (especially since they've been going empty a lot, anyway), but no real complaints here. The Chiefs needed an offensive line and running back combo that could punish light boxes. It's finding that combination and making teams pay for it (even when they have good DL personnel. That Eagles unit would have been been able to handle the run while still dropping 6-7 into coverage every down against last season's OL). __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,514

10-04-2021, 08:59 AM	#3043
Marcellus Diablo Negro Join Date: Sep 2003 Casino cash: $1262662	7th in the league in rushing yards in this offense is pretty damn good.
Posts: 72,570