The Pioli Watch Thread

[cardken]

I'm hijacking the thread starter to use for an "updates" area. Sorry cardken. Here are a few recent updates:

Last updated 1/13/09 2:30pm CDT (final update)

Originally Posted by Basileus777

New England Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli has agreed to become head of football operations for the Kansas City Chiefs, two NFL sources confirmed to ESPN's Michael Smith.
The vice president for player personnel at New England, Pioli, 43, is close to Patriots coach Bill Belichick and has been with the Patriots for nine years. Pioli would find a warm welcome in Kansas City. At the last Chiefs' home game, shortly after the embattled Carl Peterson resigned after 20 years as president, general manager and CEO, several signs were spotted in the crowd proclaiming, "We want Pioli." Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3830515

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by RustShack

He was named VP the year after they won their first SB...

Not relevant, really. Titles are titles. The reality is that it was BB and SP having shared responsibilities etc. both before and after those drafts.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by SNR

Dude, seriously, kill yourself. Get ****ed. You forget that you're talking to Chiefs fans here.

Anything your team can fail at, we can fail at better. Our 1997-1999 drafts were so bad that our 7th rounder in the 1999 draft looked at who was drafted before him by this team and shot himself

errr...I can't really argue, though if you went back to 1999, there's no doubt that the Chiefs had enjoyed more success during their history than the Patriots had during theirs. By 1999 our only claim to fame was getting destroyed twice in the Super Bowl and Lisa Olsen...

[Shag]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

if he already moved on, we'd know...there would be no reason for him to keep that secret...

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been an official announcement of anything surrounding this process. There was never confirmation that Pioli was any different than any of the other names that have been thrown around - everything we've heard has been second hand, and rumor-based. If Hunt never confirmed that he was in negotiations with Pioli, why would he confirm that Pioli is out of consideration?

Perhaps Pioli's side might come out and say something, but I have my doubts that Hunt would release any info at all, based on what we've seen so far.

*shrug*

[CoMoChief]

I don't necessarily have "doubts" about Pioli.

What I dont know and what we all dont know is whether he can do in KC what he did in NE, there are many factors on why NE is good and has been good for almost the last decade. First and most important being they lucked out and found a late round gem which happened to turn into a HOF QB.

That hardly ever happens. And you can bet NE didn't draft Brady in the 6th rd thinking that he would soon one day replace Drew Bledsoe as the starter for many years to come.

We don't know what went on in their draft room. We dont know really who had more say in player personnel.

Really the only assumption we are making is that The Pats had good drafts and were Super good during the time Pioli was their GM, so that must mean Pioli can do the same in KC.

We have no way in knowing that. ATL hired Rich McKay, at the time was NFL's best GM because of how he turned the Buccs into SB champs and competitive. Rich McKay didn't do anything in ATL

There are many holes on this team before we can even be called a mediocre team. What happens if Pioli comes in and fires Herm and hires a new coach that is a 3-4 guy? we don't have 3-4 personnel. That alone would set us back for 3-4 years. Waters and TonyG are all gone by that time so those are 2 huge holes that we have to address.

I do know one thing. Bill Belehick is a great coach. And he coaches the games, not Pioli. He has a say in what kinda players he wants because he know what he needs in order to succeed. Something Herm doesn't know because Herm is reeruned and doesn't know why hes even coaching in the NFL other than he's black.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by RustShack

He was named VP the year after they won their first SB...

Actually, let me give a better response.

Our 2001 Super Bowl was a matter of good luck and good timing. Frankly, it's shocking, when one looks at the overall talent on that team, that we were able to win it at all.

After the 2002 season, in which the defense completely fell apart, the Patriots cleaned house. Over the next 2 years, they drafted very well and brought in a slew of free agents to restore the secondary and pave the path to 2 more Super Bowl victories.

Even if you don't want to give him credit for the 2001 SB, you must give him credit for 2003/04. Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, David Givens, Jarvis Green, Dan Graham, Tully BAnta-Cain, Vince Wilfork, Ted Washington, and Dan Koppen were all either drafted or signed as free agents from 2002-2004.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

By 1999 our only claim to fame was getting destroyed twice in the Super Bowl...

Tell me, what is it like?

I mean, when your team makes it all the way and the whole week leading up to it is about how good you are and how well you played and...I....just....*snif*...just...*snif*...just one time...

[EyePod]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

I don't necessarily have "doubts" about Pioli.

What I dont know and what we all dont know is whether he can do in KC what he did in NE, there are many factors on why NE is good and has been good for almost the last decade. First and most important being they lucked out and found a late round gem which happened to turn into a HOF QB.

That hardly ever happens. And you can bet NE didn't draft Brady in the 6th rd thinking that he would soon one day replace Drew Bledsoe as the starter for many years to come.

We don't know what went on in their draft room. We dont know really who had more say in player personnel.

Really the only assumption we are making is that The Pats had good drafts and were Super good during the time Pioli was their GM, so that must mean Pioli can do the same in KC.

We have no way in knowing that. ATL hired Rich McKay, at the time was NFL's best GM because of how he turned the Buccs into SB champs and competitive. Rich McKay didn't do anything but draft the NFL's most exciting player ever which lead eventually to a total franchise breakdown.

There are many holes on this team before we can even be called a mediocre team. What happens if Pioli comes in and fires Herm and hires a new coach that is a 3-4 guy? we don't have 3-4 personnel. That alone would set us back for 3-4 years. Waters and TonyG are all gone by that time so those are 2 huge holes that we have to address.

I do know one thing. Bill Belehick is a great coach. And he coaches the games, not Pioli. He has a say in what kinda players he wants because he know what he needs in order to succeed. Something Herm doesn't know because Herm is reeruned and doesn't know why hes even coaching in the NFL other than he's black.

What about what he did in Baltimore? Ray Lewis and Jonathon Ogden.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...8-7297b9d1a76f

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

I don't necessarily have "doubts" about Pioli.

What I dont know and what we all dont know is whether he can do in KC what he did in NE, there are many factors on why NE is good and has been good for almost the last decade. First and most important being they lucked out and found a late round gem which happened to turn into a HOF QB.

That hardly ever happens. And you can bet NE didn't draft Brady in the 6th rd thinking that he would soon one day replace Drew Bledsoe as the starter for many years to come.

We don't know what went on in their draft room. We dont know really who had more say in player personnel.

Really the only assumption we are making is that The Pats had good drafts and were Super good during the time Pioli was their GM, so that must mean Pioli can do the same in KC.

We have no way in knowing that. ATL hired Rich McKay, at the time was NFL's best GM because of how he turned the Buccs into SB champs and competitive. Rich McKay didn't do anything but draft the NFL's most exciting player ever which lead eventually to a total franchise breakdown.

There are many holes on this team before we can even be called a mediocre team. What happens if Pioli comes in and fires Herm and hires a new coach that is a 3-4 guy? we don't have 3-4 personnel. That alone would set us back for 3-4 years. Waters and TonyG are all gone by that time so those are 2 huge holes that we have to address.

I do know one thing. Bill Belehick is a great coach. And he coaches the games, not Pioli. He has a say in what kinda players he wants because he know what he needs in order to succeed. Something Herm doesn't know because Herm is reeruned and doesn't know why hes even coaching in the NFL other than he's black.

You raise very valid points. I can clarify a few items.

1. I'd be surprised if you guys DIDN'T switch to 3-4. BB clearly believes in flexibility between 34 and 43, but that 3-4 as the base is superior. And if you look at the last 10 years and who has won most of the Super Bowls, I think you can see why. Ravens, Patriots and STeelers are all 3-4 teams, and they have 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl victories between them, and a few appearances (that they lost) in addition. Pats and Chargers have given Peyton the most fits over that timespan -- both are 3-4 teams.

2. BB and SP had shared decision-making in the draft room. BB has stated, repeatedly, that both had veto power. If EITHER one of them didn't like a player enough, the player would be off their board.

3. You should expect Pioli to get a new coach, and to try to work the same mind-meld with him that BB had with him. The Pats think its' critical that the scouting and coaching staffs be VERY closely intertwined. The scouts have to pick players that the coaches can use in THEIR system. They have repeatedly said that they pass on players that might be great players because those players aren't right for THEIR system.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Actually, let me give a better response.

Our 2001 Super Bowl was a matter of good luck and good timing. Frankly, it's shocking, when one looks at the overall talent on that team, that we were able to win it at all.

After the 2002 season, in which the defense completely fell apart, the Patriots cleaned house. Over the next 2 years, they drafted very well and brought in a slew of free agents to restore the secondary and pave the path to 2 more Super Bowl victories.

Even if you don't want to give him credit for the 2001 SB, you must give him credit for 2003/04. Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillon, Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel, Deion Branch, David Givens, Jarvis Green, Dan Graham, Tully BAnta-Cain, Vince Wilfork, Ted Washington, and Dan Koppen were all either drafted or signed as free agents from 2002-2004.

Yep. Brady commented last year about how few of the players from the 01 SB team could make the 07 SB team -- how they'd added talent year after year. Actually, it was Madden paraphrasing his conversation about it with Brady, but you get the drift.

[Simply Red]

ryan (2:24:18 PM): sup, international playboy?
cust(2:24:23 PM): you guys are taking Pioli away from us!!!
ryan (2:24:34 PM): huh?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ryan official?
cust (2:24:46 PM): not yet, but it looks like it
ryan (2:24:51 PM): YES!!!!!!
ryan (2:24:56 PM): PRINT 'EM!
ryan (2:25:06 PM): print the playoff ticks
cust (2:25:14 PM): lol

[Bugeater]

Originally Posted by Simply Red

ryan (2:24:18 PM): sup, international playboy?
cust(2:24:23 PM): you guys are taking Pioli away from us!!!
ryan (2:24:34 PM): huh?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ryan official?
cust (2:24:46 PM): not yet, but it looks like it
ryan (2:24:51 PM): YES!!!!!!
ryan (2:24:56 PM): PRINT 'EM!
ryan (2:25:06 PM): print the playoff ticks
cust (2:25:14 PM): lol

I'm convinced.

[EyePod]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

You raise very valid points. I can clarify a few items.

1. I'd be surprised if you guys DIDN'T switch to 3-4. BB clearly believes in flexibility between 34 and 43, but that 3-4 as the base is superior. And if you look at the last 10 years and who has won most of the Super Bowls, I think you can see why. Ravens, Patriots and STeelers are all 3-4 teams, and they have 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl victories between them, and a few appearances (that they lost) in addition. Pats and Chargers have given Peyton the most fits over that timespan -- both are 3-4 teams.

2. BB and SP had shared decision-making in the draft room. BB has stated, repeatedly, that both had veto power. If EITHER one of them didn't like a player enough, the player would be off their board.

3. You should expect Pioli to get a new coach, and to try to work the same mind-meld with him that BB had with him. The Pats think its' critical that the scouting and coaching staffs be VERY closely intertwined. The scouts have to pick players that the coaches can use in THEIR system. They have repeatedly said that they pass on players that might be great players because those players aren't right for THEIR system.

Man... This sounds like a mother****ing dream. I swear the Chiefs draft room has a spinning dartboard. The coach/GM switch back and forth with the blindfold, and throw! That's how we choose!

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Tell me, what is it like?

I mean, when your team makes it all the way and the whole week leading up to it is about how good you are and how well you played and...I....just....*snif*...just...*snif*...just one time...

It's nice. We're spoiled.

[InChiefsHeaven]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

I don't necessarily have "doubts" about Pioli.

What I dont know and what we all dont know is whether he can do in KC what he did in NE, there are many factors on why NE is good and has been good for almost the last decade. First and most important being they lucked out and found a late round gem which happened to turn into a HOF QB.

That hardly ever happens. And you can bet NE didn't draft Brady in the 6th rd thinking that he would soon one day replace Drew Bledsoe as the starter for many years to come.

We don't know what went on in their draft room. We dont know really who had more say in player personnel.

Really the only assumption we are making is that The Pats had good drafts and were Super good during the time Pioli was their GM, so that must mean Pioli can do the same in KC.

We have no way in knowing that. ATL hired Rich McKay, at the time was NFL's best GM because of how he turned the Buccs into SB champs and competitive. Rich McKay didn't do anything in ATL

There are many holes on this team before we can even be called a mediocre team. What happens if Pioli comes in and fires Herm and hires a new coach that is a 3-4 guy? we don't have 3-4 personnel. That alone would set us back for 3-4 years. Waters and TonyG are all gone by that time so those are 2 huge holes that we have to address.

I do know one thing. Bill Belehick is a great coach. And he coaches the games, not Pioli. He has a say in what kinda players he wants because he know what he needs in order to succeed. Something Herm doesn't know because Herm is reeruned and doesn't know why hes even coaching in the NFL other than he's black.

Well, see the bolded part...that can be said about any draft pick you bring in too. This guy has a track record that would lend credence that he is a good bet as a potentially great GM. I hope we take that bet...

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

You raise very valid points. I can clarify a few items.

1. I'd be surprised if you guys DIDN'T switch to 3-4. BB clearly believes in flexibility between 34 and 43, but that 3-4 as the base is superior. And if you look at the last 10 years and who has won most of the Super Bowls, I think you can see why. Ravens, Patriots and STeelers are all 3-4 teams, and they have 5 of the last 8 Super Bowl victories between them, and a few appearances (that they lost) in addition. Pats and Chargers have given Peyton the most fits over that timespan -- both are 3-4 teams.

2. BB and SP had shared decision-making in the draft room. BB has stated, repeatedly, that both had veto power. If EITHER one of them didn't like a player enough, the player would be off their board.

3. You should expect Pioli to get a new coach, and to try to work the same mind-meld with him that BB had with him. The Pats think its' critical that the scouting and coaching staffs be VERY closely intertwined. The scouts have to pick players that the coaches can use in THEIR system. They have repeatedly said that they pass on players that might be great players because those players aren't right for THEIR system.

Quick sidenote: have you read any of the books on the Patriots dynasty?

If so, which one(s) would you recommend to gain further insight on their philosophies?

If we end up hiring Pioli, I'd love to read up a bit more on their draft process, personnel evaluations, etc.