Chiefs Fisher and Schwartz - the Chandler Jones effect or something to worry about? - Page 2

htismaqe · 11-12-2018, 09:38 AM

The last couple of weeks have been rough on the tackles for whatever reason. Outside of the penalties, it's the pressure that is particularly concerning. Against the Browns, it was evident but against the Cardinals, it was pronounced.

Is it just the edge rush being better for those two teams? If so, where was Von Miller? They've faced great edge rushers and not struggled like this. Is it the domino effect of injuries in the middle radiating out to the tackles?

Anybody else concerned about this going forward?

FloridaMan88 · 11-12-2018, 10:24 AM

Fisher has been solid this year, so hopefully this was an anomaly and a case of a bad match-up with Chandler Jones.

Reid could have done more to adjust his in-game strategy by putting an extra blocker to help Fisher and also calling quicker pass plays.

staylor26 · 11-12-2018, 10:26 AM

Keenum had 160 yards 1 TD and 1 INT against the Cards

The Broncos defense is the reason why they scored a lot of points, not Keenum.

VAChief · 11-12-2018, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Jones is pretty good. He gave Fisher problems all day, but and I'm sure I'll get blasted for this, some of it is on Mahomes. A few times he hit the back of his drop and stayed there. He needed to step up in the pocket.

Fisher had Jones pushed around the back end, but Pat didn't climb the pocket. Maybe he couldn't because of inside pressure.

It looked like he didn't consider his check downs as much as he had in previous games. Most of our guys have proven pretty good at YAC, he could have done better there. We won, and it is nice to call 2 TDs and 249 yards passing a "down" game for him, but that was surprising to see him not get through his projections a little quicker. He has been excellent there all season. Hopefully just a hiccup. He has made our line look better than they are at protecting.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 11-12-2018, 10:35 AM

Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

htismaqe · 11-12-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Keenum had 160 yards 1 TD and 1 INT against the Cards

The Broncos defense is the reason why they scored a lot of points, not Keenum.

Good point.

Chief Northman · 11-12-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin

Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

No Watkins, no DAT.

Maybe saving it for later in the year...

htismaqe · 11-12-2018, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin

Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.

The Cardinals were setting the edge pretty much all day. Hunt got dropped for a loss on the outside more than once.

Simply Red · 11-12-2018, 10:39 AM

Seems it's as simple as we didn't match up well vs. their pass-rush. I wouldn't say it's TOO much to worry about, but I don't think they ignore what happened, either. Andy will address it w/ Bob, I'd imagine.

Buckweath · 11-12-2018, 10:49 AM

We all know Eric Fisher is not a an elite tackle but him and Schwartz are never injured and are a real solid duo. They are the least of my concerns.

Even Von Miller called them the best tackle duo in the league just recently.

If anything, this is to be expected that especially Fisher can allow a few pressures and sacks once in a while.

DJ's left nut · 11-12-2018, 10:52 AM

Fisher's a good player - he's not a great player.

Chandler Jones is a great player.

And there have been better players than Eric Fisher that have had bad days before. That's the dividing line between good/great players - great players don't have them very often (and HoF ones don't ever; I don't think Willie Roaf or Will Shields ever had a bad day).

But Eric Fisher will. And when he has a day where he's just out of sync and he's matched up against a guy that's simply a better player than he is if they're both having their best days, well that's a recipe for disaster.

I think Andy was a little slow to help out on the line; the offensive gameplan clearly did not figure on the Cardinals being that effective with their rush and they didn't get to a plan B. And yeah, I think Mahomes is on the hook for 2 of those sacks but that's gonna happen to any QB - he can't save the line every time.

And I never felt like the Browns were harrying Mahomes to speak of; I felt like Fisher and Schwartz had good games against Cleveland; that offense could have done whatever it wanted.

This just struck me as a combination of a guy having a bad day at the same time he was matched up against a player that's simply better than him. Shit happens - survive and advance.

Everyone keeps saying "well the Chiefs will have a clunker here sooner or later" and to my eyes this was one of those clunkers. Good teams lose a clunker here and there. Great teams win that game despite simply not playing well. We've done that twice now (AZ and the home game v Den; the road game at Denver doesn't really count to me because I feel like Denver played great defense in that game). These games just happen sometimes and winning them is a testament to just how good this team is.

The Patriots didn't show up and got boat raced.

Hog's Gone Fishin · 11-12-2018, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

It looked like he didn't consider his check downs as much as he had in previous games. Most of our guys have proven pretty good at YAC, he could have done better there. We won, and it is nice to call 2 TDs and 249 yards passing a "down" game for him, but that was surprising to see him not get through his projections a little quicker. He has been excellent there all season. Hopefully just a hiccup. He has made our line look better than they are at protecting.

Obviously ,his family emergency was on his mind.

ChiefBlueCFC · 11-12-2018, 10:57 AM

Donald and Suh are gonna eat our interior line alive on Monday night. Not looking forward to that

Frosty · 11-12-2018, 11:00 AM

Erving was on the injury report with an illness a good chunk of last week. I wonder if it was the flu and has started to spread.

i thought the o-line looked kind of lethargic at times yesterday (Patrick too).

DJ's left nut · 11-12-2018, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

Donald and Suh are gonna eat our interior line alive on Monday night. Not looking forward to that

Suh worries me because he simply hasn't been very good this year but against lesser quality players, he might finally stand out.

Donald, OTOH, well the injuries don't worry me because Donald will rape ANYBODY on the other side of him. Seriously - mere human beings are speedbumps for that guy and even if we had LDT and Morse on their best days, Donald would still wreck shit.

He's just a freakshow and in the end all we could do to minimize his impact is to try to gameplan around him. For my money, that will mean a LOT of misdirection. Nobody can physically beat him so you have to get him thinking. If you can get him thinking rather than simply reacting, you can slow him down a bit.

So if the Chiefs are to succeed against Donald, it won't be because their interior line stood him up - it would not have gone that way regardless of the personnel. It will be because Andy/Eric have cooked up some weird shit to get him caught in between.

jaa1025 · 11-12-2018, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Why Not?

A number 1 overall pick LT should be able to not get owned consistently by premiere pass rushers. Also, name me the last big game you can recall without a Fisher penalty?

This is the first game that he's struggled this year. He's playing like one of the better LT's in the league.

11-12-2018, 09:38 AM
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8179900	Fisher and Schwartz - the Chandler Jones effect or something to worry about? The last couple of weeks have been rough on the tackles for whatever reason. Outside of the penalties, it's the pressure that is particularly concerning. Against the Browns, it was evident but against the Cardinals, it was pronounced. Is it just the edge rush being better for those two teams? If so, where was Von Miller? They've faced great edge rushers and not struggled like this. Is it the domino effect of injuries in the middle radiating out to the tackles? Anybody else concerned about this going forward?
Posts: 104,292

11-12-2018, 10:24 AM	#16
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-527094	Fisher has been solid this year, so hopefully this was an anomaly and a case of a bad match-up with Chandler Jones. Reid could have done more to adjust his in-game strategy by putting an extra blocker to help Fisher and also calling quicker pass plays.
Posts: 49,729

11-12-2018, 10:26 AM	#17
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1900960	Keenum had 160 yards 1 TD and 1 INT against the Cards The Broncos defense is the reason why they scored a lot of points, not Keenum.
Posts: 52,847

11-12-2018, 10:35 AM	#19
Hog's Gone Fishin Fish are scared of me Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1429523	Why have we abandoned the jet sweeps.Seems like they would take care of the push up the middle.
Posts: 40,646

11-12-2018, 10:39 AM	#23
Simply Red You Sweetie! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021206219 VARSITY	Seems it's as simple as we didn't match up well vs. their pass-rush. I wouldn't say it's TOO much to worry about, but I don't think they ignore what happened, either. Andy will address it w/ Bob, I'd imagine.
Posts: 71,691

11-12-2018, 10:49 AM	#24
Buckweath Veteran Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Quebec, Canada Casino cash: $9994975	We all know Eric Fisher is not a an elite tackle but him and Schwartz are never injured and are a real solid duo. They are the least of my concerns. Even Von Miller called them the best tackle duo in the league just recently. If anything, this is to be expected that especially Fisher can allow a few pressures and sacks once in a while.
Posts: 2,393

11-12-2018, 10:52 AM	#25
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-640901	Fisher's a good player - he's not a great player. Chandler Jones is a great player. And there have been better players than Eric Fisher that have had bad days before. That's the dividing line between good/great players - great players don't have them very often (and HoF ones don't ever; I don't think Willie Roaf or Will Shields ever had a bad day). But Eric Fisher will. And when he has a day where he's just out of sync and he's matched up against a guy that's simply a better player than he is if they're both having their best days, well that's a recipe for disaster. I think Andy was a little slow to help out on the line; the offensive gameplan clearly did not figure on the Cardinals being that effective with their rush and they didn't get to a plan B. And yeah, I think Mahomes is on the hook for 2 of those sacks but that's gonna happen to any QB - he can't save the line every time. And I never felt like the Browns were harrying Mahomes to speak of; I felt like Fisher and Schwartz had good games against Cleveland; that offense could have done whatever it wanted. This just struck me as a combination of a guy having a bad day at the same time he was matched up against a player that's simply better than him. Shit happens - survive and advance. Everyone keeps saying "well the Chiefs will have a clunker here sooner or later" and to my eyes this was one of those clunkers. Good teams lose a clunker here and there. Great teams win that game despite simply not playing well. We've done that twice now (AZ and the home game v Den; the road game at Denver doesn't really count to me because I feel like Denver played great defense in that game). These games just happen sometimes and winning them is a testament to just how good this team is. The Patriots didn't show up and got boat raced. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
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11-12-2018, 10:57 AM	#27
ChiefBlueCFC Veteran Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: KCMO BABY Casino cash: $7940410	Donald and Suh are gonna eat our interior line alive on Monday night. Not looking forward to that __________________ WE FIRED BOB SUTTON
Posts: 2,736

11-12-2018, 11:00 AM	#28
Frosty Go Beavers! Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Washington Casino cash: $3508243	Erving was on the injury report with an illness a good chunk of last week. I wonder if it was the flu and has started to spread. i thought the o-line looked kind of lethargic at times yesterday (Patrick too).
Posts: 14,537