Chiefs Glenn Dorsey: From Tradable Asset To Key To The Defense - Page 2

T-post Tom · 08-08-2009, 12:15 AM

A few months ago, when Scott Pioli and the Chiefs first decided they would run the 3-4 defense this year, Glenn Dorsey seemed destined for one of two things: a trade, or failure.

Dorsey's skill set and body type just do not fit what most people think about typical 3-4 defensive lineman; he is not heavy or squat enough to play nose tackle, and he is not tall and athletic enough to play defensive end.

3-4 linemen are supposed to take up blocks and let the linebackers do the work, not penetrate and blow things up in the backfield, and that is exactly what Dorsey is best at doing.

We weren't the only one's who made this connection—that Dorsey's unique skill set would go to waste in the 3-4—the Chiefs realized this too, and made adjustments.

“A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap."

"There's a place for me on this defense."

So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis.

Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle.

Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent.

Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time.
With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard. Dorsey left one-on-one with a guard is a match up I will take any day of the week.

This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the defenses, but will apply pressure on the quarterback's blindside from two different positions, causing even more chaos.

Getting this kind of pressure from a defensive end in a 3-4(ish) scheme is very unique, and is sure to cause confusion for the opposing offensive line. Only the Cardinals have run this scheme before, and is still very new to the NFL.

Hopefully the Chiefs will be able to exploit this new fad to the fullest, much like the "Wildcat" formation has done thus far.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...fense#comments

Mojo Rising · 08-08-2009, 03:23 AM

Sims and Dorsey were selected in the top 5. Jr. was selected in the top 1/2 of round 2. Hali is not an OLB, Dorsey is not a DE. This will be interesting.

**BossChief** · 08-08-2009, 03:27 AM

I like the energy an article like this creates, but I gotta question a couple aspects of it.

...that leaves Hali one on one with the left tackle almost every down, a battle he should win most of the time...I thought that experiment went down in history as a collosal fail last year? I also read elsewhere that Vrabel and Hali flip flopped positions and that Hali is practicing at lolb, I think if he has a chance in this defense it is on the strong side. jmo though

...Dorsey matched up one on one with a guard is a matchup I will take every day of the week...really? I understand he will be helped by shading him, but where he was lined up was only part of the problem, he needs to step up the intensity of his play and do the things it takes to beat the man across from him. Hopefully, Fanaca, Mawae and a few others taught Dorsey enough "lessons" about what it takes to succeed in the NFL that he put in alot of work and is a new player this year. He will never be a bust, but may never play to full expectations either.

Should be the most interesting year in quite awhile.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-08-2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

The key is definitely NT it all comes down to how Edwards and Tank play...

They play bad this defense is as bad as last year.

They play well, like Rustshack said this defense could surprise some people.

As simple as that really...

If this works, think about how the secondary FINALLY get's it's shot to be play makers on a more consistent basis!

I've said it a thousand times; you get Flowers a legitimate pass-rush, and it's a whole new world in the Chiefs secondary.

Let's do this thing!

**ChiefGator** · 08-08-2009, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I like the energy an article like this creates, but I gotta question a couple aspects of it.

...that leaves Hali one on one with the left tackle almost every down, a battle he should win most of the time...I thought that experiment went down in history as a collosal fail last year?

Yeah, but Hali will be starting off the line, so the tackle won't be able to get his hands on him right away. With Hali moving well, he should be able to get by the tackle. Or the tackle may moved over and engage Dorsey, leaving Hali open to the QB.

This kind of reminds me of when our defenses use to have good schemes. It has also made me decide, just this very minute, that Gunther had much less to do with our good defenses and it was mostly Marty and DT.

**Rausch** · 08-08-2009, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

This kind of reminds me of when our defenses use to have good schemes. It has also made me decide, just this very minute, that Gunther had much less to do with our good defenses and it was mostly Marty and DT.

Gun = Pres. Bill Clinton.

Marty = Rommel.

CP = Stalin.

Lamar = Pres. Woodrow Wilson.

Someone there has to get broken, it's just the natural dynamic. Peterson won the battle and lost the war.

The argument is over. Blame Marty all you want for the "Marty years" but Peterson hasn't accomplished JACK $#IT without him and Marty has gone on just fine...

milkman · 08-08-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefGator

Yeah, but Hali will be starting off the line, so the tackle won't be able to get his hands on him right away. With Hali moving well, he should be able to get by the tackle. Or the tackle may moved over and engage Dorsey, leaving Hali open to the QB.

The problem is that Hali's best asset was his quick burst at the snap, which made him an effective pass rusher against RTs who generally aren't as quick as the LT.
That burst was negated by the quicker LT.

Rushing from a stand up position is more about speed, and the question is, has the weight loss improved Hali's speed enough to make him an effective pass rusher from the ROLB spot?

I have my doubts.

Quote:

This kind of reminds me of when our defenses use to have good schemes. It has also made me decide, just this very minute, that Gunther had much less to do with our good defenses and it was mostly Marty and DT.

Well.......duh.

I've said this many times.
I'll say it again.

****her did more to contain DT than any opposing OC ever did.

**ChiefGator** · 08-08-2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

The argument is over. Blame Marty all you want for the "Marty years" but Gunther and Peterson haven't accomplished JACK $#IT without him and Marty has gone on just fine...

FYP... Yeah, I guess I ad not really come to that realization on Gunther before. Under Marty he would try different things, have decent schemes, and just go crazy. Maybe he can call an aggressive defense, but I don't think he can design one. And, anyway, he's just a bat-shit crazy German...

No offense, of course... I wouldn't call you bat-shit... At least not to your face...

**Rausch** · 08-08-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The problem is that Hali's best asset was his quick burst at the snap, which made him an effective pass rusher against RTs who generally aren't as quick as the LT.
That burst was negated by the quicker LT.

The only problem is Hali has always played "below his weight." He's just not strong at all. For a guy as big as he is he carries no strength on gameday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Rushing from a stand up position is more about speed, and the question is, has the weight loss improved Hali's speed enough to make him an effective pass rusher from the ROLB spot?

I have my doubts.

It's his only chance. He's got the speed and athleticism of a legit DE but he's just overwhelmed on gameday. I don't know if it's instinct, hate, drive, strength, or a combination of all but he's consistently pushed around by below average T's...

Pioli Zombie · 08-08-2009, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Can you imagine a tell-all book from Pioli, many years down the road, when all of the politics of the game that he has used or created are finally laid bare?

If he brings KC to Dynasty Status, this guy is a Legend. The Greatest. The best to ever do the job. That's some heavy shit.

He probably is the one who best knows the relationship between Parcells and Belichick, being ones son-in-law and the others work partner for years. I bet he's got some pretty funny stories to tell.
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian · 08-08-2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis.

Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle.

Man that seems so familiar. Almost like I wrote that myself here months and months ago, and had to argue with people here about it.

Oh wait, that's exactly what happened! DOH!

I should go back and find all the people that insulted me for saying this.

Ebolapox · 08-08-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo Rising

Sims and Dorsey were selected in the top 5. Jr. was selected in the top 1/2 of round 2. Hali is not an OLB, Dorsey is not a DE. This will be interesting.

wrong. sims was number 6 overall.

TheGuardian · 08-08-2009, 07:13 AM

WEll not only wrong there, Dorsey won't be playing head up defense tackle (end) in this defense. Yet people keep saying it.

Ebolapox · 08-08-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

WEll not only wrong there, Dorsey won't be playing head up defense tackle (end) in this defense. Yet people keep saying it.

yeah, I kinda glossed over that one.

philfree · 08-08-2009, 07:55 AM

This article was written by TJ Gerrity. Never heard of him so I wonder if he's basing this off a Chiefs camp report from someone or if he's at camp? Or is he just assuming the Chiefs will run the same D Zona did? Maybe someone at camp can tell us how Dorsey is lining up when he's on the field.

PhilFree

KCUnited · 08-08-2009, 08:00 AM

Seeing how Dorsey couldn't get off blocks last year, play end in a 3-4 might be what he's good at.

08-08-2009, 12:15 AM
T-post Tom Busy in a Kohl's restroom Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Milk/Honey/Gazland Casino cash: $1967293	Glenn Dorsey: From Tradable Asset To Key To The Defense A few months ago, when Scott Pioli and the Chiefs first decided they would run the 3-4 defense this year, Glenn Dorsey seemed destined for one of two things: a trade, or failure. Dorsey's skill set and body type just do not fit what most people think about typical 3-4 defensive lineman; he is not heavy or squat enough to play nose tackle, and he is not tall and athletic enough to play defensive end. 3-4 linemen are supposed to take up blocks and let the linebackers do the work, not penetrate and blow things up in the backfield, and that is exactly what Dorsey is best at doing. We weren't the only one's who made this connection—that Dorsey's unique skill set would go to waste in the 3-4—the Chiefs realized this too, and made adjustments. “A lot of people are thinking this is a straight 3-4 defense and it’s not,” said Dorsey. “Being at an end is a new place for me, but it’s not going to be a classic 3-4 end on every snap." "There's a place for me on this defense." So here's the plan, the Chiefs will be implementing some sort of 3-4/4-3 hybrid that was run in Arizona last year by defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast that was called the "4-3 Under" by the Cardinals linebacker coach, Bill Davis. Glenn Dorsey won't be lining up heads up over the offensive tackle, in the five-technique, on most downs. Instead, he will be shaded slightly inside, between the guard and tackle. Lining up in this manner will allow Dorsey to play a more typical 4-3 defensive tackle role and shoot the gap when the ball is snapped. Disrupting the offense in this way allows Dorsey to utilize his unique skill set to the fullest extent. Playing outside of him in the DE/OLB role will most likely be Tamba Hali, who on most snaps will solely be rushing the passer. He mainly will be left one-on-one with the left tackle and is expected to be able to beat him on most snaps, especially given he will start from a two point stance most of the time. With Hali occupying the left tackle, and nose tackle Tank Tyler most likely double teamed by the center and right guard, Dorsey will be left one on one with the left guard. Dorsey left one-on-one with a guard is a match up I will take any day of the week. This combination of rare positions side by side will not only confuse the defenses, but will apply pressure on the quarterback's blindside from two different positions, causing even more chaos. Getting this kind of pressure from a defensive end in a 3-4(ish) scheme is very unique, and is sure to cause confusion for the opposing offensive line. Only the Cardinals have run this scheme before, and is still very new to the NFL. Hopefully the Chiefs will be able to exploit this new fad to the fullest, much like the "Wildcat" formation has done thus far. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...fense#comments
Posts: 22,258

08-08-2009, 03:23 AM	#16
Mojo Rising Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: OC Casino cash: $10009560	Sims and Dorsey were selected in the top 5. Jr. was selected in the top 1/2 of round 2. Hali is not an OLB, Dorsey is not a DE. This will be interesting.
Posts: 1,792

08-08-2009, 03:27 AM	#17
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1495912	I like the energy an article like this creates, but I gotta question a couple aspects of it. ...that leaves Hali one on one with the left tackle almost every down, a battle he should win most of the time...I thought that experiment went down in history as a collosal fail last year? I also read elsewhere that Vrabel and Hali flip flopped positions and that Hali is practicing at lolb, I think if he has a chance in this defense it is on the strong side. jmo though ...Dorsey matched up one on one with a guard is a matchup I will take every day of the week...really? I understand he will be helped by shading him, but where he was lined up was only part of the problem, he needs to step up the intensity of his play and do the things it takes to beat the man across from him. Hopefully, Fanaca, Mawae and a few others taught Dorsey enough "lessons" about what it takes to succeed in the NFL that he put in alot of work and is a new player this year. He will never be a bust, but may never play to full expectations either. Should be the most interesting year in quite awhile. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,864

08-08-2009, 07:13 AM	#27
TheGuardian MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $6355299	WEll not only wrong there, Dorsey won't be playing head up defense tackle (end) in this defense. Yet people keep saying it.
Posts: 9,559

08-08-2009, 07:55 AM	#29
philfree Indian Twitter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Free Agency Casino cash: $-1933802	This article was written by TJ Gerrity. Never heard of him so I wonder if he's basing this off a Chiefs camp report from someone or if he's at camp? Or is he just assuming the Chiefs will run the same D Zona did? Maybe someone at camp can tell us how Dorsey is lining up when he's on the field. PhilFree __________________ [/SIGPIC]
Posts: 16,085

08-08-2009, 08:00 AM	#30
KCUnited Cheat Death Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of Drincoln Casino cash: $-1341756	Seeing how Dorsey couldn't get off blocks last year, play end in a 3-4 might be what he's good at.
Posts: 36,821