Chiefs Vindication for Carl? - Page 2

Hammock Parties · 09-16-2008, 08:32 PM

Well written piece, IMO. He has a point.

http://kan.scout.com/2/791361.html

As everyone reading this already knows, the Kansas City Chiefs are currently mired in an eleven-game losing streak. The latest loss was particularly hard to swallow, coming at home against the hated Raiders. The same Oakland team, it should be noted, who came out in their season opener looking more like an NCAA Division II cupcake than a team capable of winning games in the NFL.

With those things in mind, you aren’t likely to find too many people looking for ways to compliment Kansas City Chiefs President and General Manager Carl Peterson these days. Brace yourselves, though, because in a roundabout way that’s exactly what I’m about to do.

You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for.

What do I mean by that? For the answer, let’s jump back a few months. Shortly after the NFL Draft, WPI’s own Nick Athan conducted an interview with Chiefs’ owner Clark Hunt.

Here’s an excerpt from that piece:

Ultimately, Hunt knows that he’s serving the fans. Can they endure another losing season while this year’s draft class matures? Hunt thinks so.

"I do realize that in the short run, going with young players could have some shortcomings in terms of our performance on the field," he said. "But that’s OK. I think those guys will learn and our fans will enjoy watching those players develop."

"What I’ve come to learn is that the fans are actually really studied. They’re really smart. It must be because there’s 24-hour news on the National Football League. It’s Warpaint Illustrated and all the cable channels that cover the NFL and the constant media attention and the internet. Fans have become very smart in terms of how championship teams are built, and I sense they understand what we’re doing and will support it."

That certainly sounded good back in April. I imagine that a lot of the people who read those comments probably nodded in agreement and patted themselves on the back for being the smart, studied fans Clark said they were.

But now, just two games into the regular season, many of those same fans – no doubt spurred on by the pot-stirring of those like KC Star Columnist Jason Whitlock – are demanding that Hunt take action.

They want Peterson fired, they want Herm Edwards fired -- heck, they want both of them fired. Some even want Hunt to sell the team. They want whatever it takes in order to feel that change is on the horizon.

Unfortunately, it seems safe to say that after two more losses Hunt’s comments about the patience of the fanbase was a bit optimistic. Everyone knew the Chiefs would be a bad team this year. Sure, there were a few cockeyed optimists who were predicting K.C. to shock the world and finish 9-7, but most understood that considerable growing pains were to be expected. And, echoing Hunt’s remarks, most fans said all the right things about rebuilding during OTAs and training camp.

But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process.

Or maybe a lot of fans just never had the stomach for it to begin with.

“Not so”, they’ll undoubtedly say. “We were prepared for losing. But not like this. We weren’t prepared to lose because of the endless mistakes by Carl and the poor coaching from Herm. Get rid of ‘em!”

That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse.

Two years ago, the exact same cries were rising up from fans of the Green Bay Packers. The Pack went 4-12 in 2005, the team’s worst season in fourteen years. That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team.

The Packers traded away one of their top players (Javon Walker) and ended up with twelve draft picks, several of whom saw significant action as rookies. With the league’s youngest roster, Green Bay began the next season 1-4, starting things off with an embarrassing 26-0 loss in their home opener against a hated rival.

Is this sounding familiar? It should. Don’t get me wrong, the Packers aren’t a perfect analogy to the Chiefs’ current situation – Green Bay, after all, already had a franchise QB in place with Brett Favre, and that alone makes a considerable difference.

But as you can see, there are enough similarities to make it an interesting comparison.

The Packers lost their first three home games that season, and their lone early victory came against the similarly winless Detroit Lions. Although they rebounded from their poor start and nearly got back to .500, they ultimately lost eight of their first twelve games and were sitting at 4-8 in early December.

When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets.

But the Packers pulled together in the final month and won four straight games to finish 8-8. A year later, still sticking to youth, Green Bay made their conference title game.

Will Kansas City finish 8-8 this season? Will they be a Super Bowl contender next year? Probably not.

As mentioned, the Chiefs don’t have a QB, and they also don’t have the benefit of playing in the weaker NFC. But the point of the comparison, as Packers’ fans learned, is that it’s foolish to judge so quickly.

Chiefs’ fans can say they’re not being impatient with losses, that it’s the coaching and management they’re upset with. It just rings hollow. Any Packers fan who signed a petition to fire McCarthy and Thompson during the 2006 season would probably admit today that they overreacted. They recognize that their young team started to improve as they got more experience and developed chemistry with one another.

No matter how the angry masses in Kansas City might want to justify their reactions, the simple truth is this: anyone who’s demanding sweeping changes in the Chiefs’ organization because a bad team played a bad game on Sunday wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

For that matter, anyone who wanted to see 35-year old Damon Huard trot back onto the field Sunday, rather than see 24-year old Tyler Thigpen get his opportunity, wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. And most of all, anyone who’s not willing to wait more than two games before declaring the rebuilding effort a failure wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

So, no, I’m not buying that the reactions are all about Herm and Carl. And you know who else isn’t buying it? Carl Peterson.

After all, judging by the reactions we’re seeing, Peterson had everyone pegged a long time ago. He’s been criticized by millions, myself included, for the strategy he’s executed all these years. Stock up on free agents every few seasons, never bother to develop a young quarterback when you can always acquire a veteran with experience, and do everything else possible to shoot for a season of eight or nine wins. And if you can make the playoffs, hey, anything can happen once you’re in the tournament.

That’s been the Carl Peterson way, and the results speak for themselves. Sure, the Chiefs haven’t won a playoff game since Joe Montana was under center, but Arrowhead has still been filled to capacity year after year. Every December, no matter how mediocre the Chiefs were, the seats were always full and the stadium was always loud as long as there was some outside chance at a playoff berth.

Contrast that to this year, when even after a highly-praised draft and one of those “moral victories” against the New England juggernaut, the openly rebuilding Chiefs – finally trying to build a championship team the right way – struggled to sell out their home opener against their biggest rival.

While Hunt had reason for his view of how the fans would react to a rebuilding season, maybe Peterson’s view was a little more in line with reality. Perhaps he’s been more tuned-in to the fans than anyone ever thought he was. Maybe he knew that Chiefs fans just aren’t cut out for this rebuilding stuff.

I just hope he’s not the sort of guy to say “I told you so."

**DaneMcCloud** · 09-16-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Lamar got a pass because of his cancer issues, but Clark doesn't get a pass at all.

What about the 70's? The 80's?

It's the FAMILY.

Fish · 09-16-2008, 09:07 PM

Fire Clark Hunt! We demand it!!

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-16-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Fire Clark Hunt! We demand it!!

triple · 09-16-2008, 09:10 PM

The chiefs are unquestionably the worst team in the NFL right now.

They do not just suck, they are one of those teams that is an embarrassment to the league. They are embarrassing the league with runaway suckage fission because the control rods of any semblance of competent coaching and management have been removed.

All we can hope for is that this pile of primordial slime somehow spontaneously evolves before the end of the season.

At least last season they would occasionally do something right and had all the right players standing in the right places.

**RNR** · 09-16-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I've been saying this forever. Carl Peterson plays to the Chiefs fans, not to win in the NFL.

Once again, if the mandate from the Hunts had been to win a Super Bowl, Carl would have been fired more than a decade ago. If the mandate is to compete every year with a chance of the playoff and Super Bowl, then I'd say he's done a fine job.

It begins and ends with the Hunt family and anyone that's unwilling to admit that is lying to themselves.

I have said that to Chief fans for years, and they always give them a pass blaming Carl Peterson instead....who works for the Hunts! kind of like Raider fans blaming the coach.

ChiefsCountry · 09-16-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I've been saying this forever. Carl Peterson plays to the Chiefs fans, not to win in the NFL.

Once again, if the mandate from the Hunts had been to win a Super Bowl, Carl would have been fired more than a decade ago. If the mandate is to compete every year with a chance of the playoff and Super Bowl, then I'd say he's done a fine job.

It begins and ends with the Hunt family and anyone that's unwilling to admit that is lying to themselves.

This forum the last few days has changed my opinion on lots on this matter. Chiefs have really just been playing to the fan base. They seem they would rather just win enough so that they can have a fun time. Also I believe Lamar didnt want a repeat of the late 70's and 80's. So the average Chiefs teams were born.

It's Clark's baby now though. We will see what he does. He is smart business person that is for sure and he has done quite a bit on his own without his dad's help aka his financial service business. We will see if he can do the same with the Chiefs.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-16-2008, 09:12 PM

BigRock · 09-16-2008, 09:17 PM

PWNED

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan

When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets.

What column?

Time's Yours · 09-16-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

This forum the last few days has changed my opinion on lots on this matter. Chiefs have really just been playing to the fan base. They seem they would rather just win enough so that they can have a fun time.

That's the boat I'm in. I want to have fun watching the Chiefs. That's why I don't like Herm. He makes the game so F-ing boring to watch. Even if we're winning the way he does things (which we won't because those days are long gone) it will be like watching the Ravens super bowl run some years back. Snooze.

**dirk digler** · 09-16-2008, 09:27 PM

There is 2 problems with this analogy:

1. GB had a HOF player as their starting QB. We don't have that luxury
2. GB didn't lose 9 straight to end the season

My biggest complaint about this team is that the offense looks like the same run-run-pass-punt offense we have seen from Herm the last 3 seasons and that we don't have a legitimate QB on the roster. It is my belief if we had a legitimate QB we might be 2-0 instead of 0-2.

**MahiMike** · 09-16-2008, 09:27 PM

All you have to know about this organization is that when the Patriots lose the best player in the NFL, they trot out a guy who's never started and go 2-0. The Chiefs? They run the wishbone with some guy out of the stands...

Fish · 09-16-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillip

That's the boat I'm in. I want to have fun watching the Chiefs. That's why I don't like Herm. He makes the game so F-ing boring to watch. Even if we're winning the way he does things (which we won't because those days are long gone) it will be like watching the Ravens super bowl run some years back. Snooze.

I hear you.... I'd hate to see the Chiefs win a Superbowl as boringly as that Ravens Superbowl run... that would be a drag...

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-16-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Fish

I hear you.... I'd hate to see the Chiefs win a Superbowl as boringly as that Ravens Superbowl run... that would be a drag...

FIRE EVERYONE!!!!11!!11

THAT WAS TOO BORING.

Fish · 09-16-2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

FIRE EVERYONE!!!!11!!11

THAT WAS TOO BORING.

49-41..... it's a Celebration of the game!

**dirk digler** · 09-16-2008, 09:31 PM

Anyone that thinks Herm is going to win a SB I really want the drugs you are taking

09-16-2008, 08:32 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1060478	Vindication for Carl? Well written piece, IMO. He has a point. http://kan.scout.com/2/791361.html As everyone reading this already knows, the Kansas City Chiefs are currently mired in an eleven-game losing streak. The latest loss was particularly hard to swallow, coming at home against the hated Raiders. The same Oakland team, it should be noted, who came out in their season opener looking more like an NCAA Division II cupcake than a team capable of winning games in the NFL. With those things in mind, you aren’t likely to find too many people looking for ways to compliment Kansas City Chiefs President and General Manager Carl Peterson these days. Brace yourselves, though, because in a roundabout way that’s exactly what I’m about to do. You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for. What do I mean by that? For the answer, let’s jump back a few months. Shortly after the NFL Draft, WPI’s own Nick Athan conducted an interview with Chiefs’ owner Clark Hunt. Here’s an excerpt from that piece: Ultimately, Hunt knows that he’s serving the fans. Can they endure another losing season while this year’s draft class matures? Hunt thinks so. "I do realize that in the short run, going with young players could have some shortcomings in terms of our performance on the field," he said. "But that’s OK. I think those guys will learn and our fans will enjoy watching those players develop." "What I’ve come to learn is that the fans are actually really studied. They’re really smart. It must be because there’s 24-hour news on the National Football League. It’s Warpaint Illustrated and all the cable channels that cover the NFL and the constant media attention and the internet. Fans have become very smart in terms of how championship teams are built, and I sense they understand what we’re doing and will support it." That certainly sounded good back in April. I imagine that a lot of the people who read those comments probably nodded in agreement and patted themselves on the back for being the smart, studied fans Clark said they were. But now, just two games into the regular season, many of those same fans – no doubt spurred on by the pot-stirring of those like KC Star Columnist Jason Whitlock – are demanding that Hunt take action. They want Peterson fired, they want Herm Edwards fired -- heck, they want both of them fired. Some even want Hunt to sell the team. They want whatever it takes in order to feel that change is on the horizon. Unfortunately, it seems safe to say that after two more losses Hunt’s comments about the patience of the fanbase was a bit optimistic. Everyone knew the Chiefs would be a bad team this year. Sure, there were a few cockeyed optimists who were predicting K.C. to shock the world and finish 9-7, but most understood that considerable growing pains were to be expected. And, echoing Hunt’s remarks, most fans said all the right things about rebuilding during OTAs and training camp. But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process. Or maybe a lot of fans just never had the stomach for it to begin with. “Not so”, they’ll undoubtedly say. “We were prepared for losing. But not like this. We weren’t prepared to lose because of the endless mistakes by Carl and the poor coaching from Herm. Get rid of ‘em!” That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse. Two years ago, the exact same cries were rising up from fans of the Green Bay Packers. The Pack went 4-12 in 2005, the team’s worst season in fourteen years. That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team. The Packers traded away one of their top players (Javon Walker) and ended up with twelve draft picks, several of whom saw significant action as rookies. With the league’s youngest roster, Green Bay began the next season 1-4, starting things off with an embarrassing 26-0 loss in their home opener against a hated rival. Is this sounding familiar? It should. Don’t get me wrong, the Packers aren’t a perfect analogy to the Chiefs’ current situation – Green Bay, after all, already had a franchise QB in place with Brett Favre, and that alone makes a considerable difference. But as you can see, there are enough similarities to make it an interesting comparison. The Packers lost their first three home games that season, and their lone early victory came against the similarly winless Detroit Lions. Although they rebounded from their poor start and nearly got back to .500, they ultimately lost eight of their first twelve games and were sitting at 4-8 in early December. When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets. But the Packers pulled together in the final month and won four straight games to finish 8-8. A year later, still sticking to youth, Green Bay made their conference title game. Will Kansas City finish 8-8 this season? Will they be a Super Bowl contender next year? Probably not. As mentioned, the Chiefs don’t have a QB, and they also don’t have the benefit of playing in the weaker NFC. But the point of the comparison, as Packers’ fans learned, is that it’s foolish to judge so quickly. Chiefs’ fans can say they’re not being impatient with losses, that it’s the coaching and management they’re upset with. It just rings hollow. Any Packers fan who signed a petition to fire McCarthy and Thompson during the 2006 season would probably admit today that they overreacted. They recognize that their young team started to improve as they got more experience and developed chemistry with one another. No matter how the angry masses in Kansas City might want to justify their reactions, the simple truth is this: anyone who’s demanding sweeping changes in the Chiefs’ organization because a bad team played a bad game on Sunday wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. For that matter, anyone who wanted to see 35-year old Damon Huard trot back onto the field Sunday, rather than see 24-year old Tyler Thigpen get his opportunity, wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. And most of all, anyone who’s not willing to wait more than two games before declaring the rebuilding effort a failure wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. So, no, I’m not buying that the reactions are all about Herm and Carl. And you know who else isn’t buying it? Carl Peterson. After all, judging by the reactions we’re seeing, Peterson had everyone pegged a long time ago. He’s been criticized by millions, myself included, for the strategy he’s executed all these years. Stock up on free agents every few seasons, never bother to develop a young quarterback when you can always acquire a veteran with experience, and do everything else possible to shoot for a season of eight or nine wins. And if you can make the playoffs, hey, anything can happen once you’re in the tournament. That’s been the Carl Peterson way, and the results speak for themselves. Sure, the Chiefs haven’t won a playoff game since Joe Montana was under center, but Arrowhead has still been filled to capacity year after year. Every December, no matter how mediocre the Chiefs were, the seats were always full and the stadium was always loud as long as there was some outside chance at a playoff berth. Contrast that to this year, when even after a highly-praised draft and one of those “moral victories” against the New England juggernaut, the openly rebuilding Chiefs – finally trying to build a championship team the right way – struggled to sell out their home opener against their biggest rival. While Hunt had reason for his view of how the fans would react to a rebuilding season, maybe Peterson’s view was a little more in line with reality. Perhaps he’s been more tuned-in to the fans than anyone ever thought he was. Maybe he knew that Chiefs fans just aren’t cut out for this rebuilding stuff. I just hope he’s not the sort of guy to say “I told you so."
Posts: 296,644

09-16-2008, 09:07 PM	#17
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-1191081	Fire Clark Hunt! We demand it!! __________________
Posts: 48,773

09-16-2008, 09:10 PM	#19
triple Stop saying &quot;This.&quot; Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	The chiefs are unquestionably the worst team in the NFL right now. They do not just suck, they are one of those teams that is an embarrassment to the league. They are embarrassing the league with runaway suckage fission because the control rods of any semblance of competent coaching and management have been removed. All we can hope for is that this pile of primordial slime somehow spontaneously evolves before the end of the season. At least last season they would occasionally do something right and had all the right players standing in the right places.
Posts: 2,110

09-16-2008, 09:12 PM	#22
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2261115	Two.
Posts: 60,746

09-16-2008, 09:27 PM	#25
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $244644	There is 2 problems with this analogy: 1. GB had a HOF player as their starting QB. We don't have that luxury 2. GB didn't lose 9 straight to end the season My biggest complaint about this team is that the offense looks like the same run-run-pass-punt offense we have seen from Herm the last 3 seasons and that we don't have a legitimate QB on the roster. It is my belief if we had a legitimate QB we might be 2-0 instead of 0-2.
Posts: 67,106

09-16-2008, 09:27 PM	#26
MahiMike He's Mahomie! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Jax, FL Casino cash: $10023443	All you have to know about this organization is that when the Patriots lose the best player in the NFL, they trot out a guy who's never started and go 2-0. The Chiefs? They run the wishbone with some guy out of the stands...
Posts: 17,387

09-16-2008, 09:31 PM	#30
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $244644	Anyone that thinks Herm is going to win a SB I really want the drugs you are taking
Posts: 67,106