EV Cars/Trucks

[synthesis2]

Since I was banned from the Gas thread for simply saying I was glad I have a EV car now I thought I'd answer the question that was posed to me by another before I was banned.(still have zero idea why.

We have a Model 3 long range, it gets around 340 miles per charge and our all in was 50k for the car, $500 for the Wall Charger (you don't need but its cool looking)

Our previous car was a Porsche Cayenne, here is what we spent in the year we owned it. My wife is a rep and uses as her company car. ( she gets paid mileage) so we paid 40k for it. Was a year old when we got it. She drove it 50K in a year, we had to use premium unleaded gas and it got around 18 miles per gallon. We had to get it serviced 3 times with a average cost of $500-700 on each service. I don't know how much we paid in gas but lets assume we still had it today and Premium was going for 4.50 a gallon, it would be around 12-14k on gas a year, along with $1500-2000 in services so our all in each year was 13.5-16k per year in service and gas.

With our Tesla our electricity has seemed to go up $40-50 per month, so lets call it $600 plus tires rotated $100, windshield wiper fluid $5 so for the year its around $800 vs. 13.5-16k.

So the 10k cost difference was made up in less than a year and now we are saving 12k plus per year compared. Plus she loves the car much more than the Porsche.

I know compared with a ford focus the math may not ever make sense but for a nicer car its been awesome for us.

[Valiant]

I still wish we were trying to push hydrogen cells more.

Evs are great until states and federal tax regulations eventually hit you for new taxes that will need to be created. I assume you will eventually be charged a mile tax per year. What is the cost to replace the batteries? Do they have memory problems after so many charges? The fact they may be more hazardous to the environment than gas, From mining, recycling, disposable.

Good step forward. But a hybrid is the way to go for most of the country that has winters.

[synthesis2]

Originally Posted by Oxford

The big question(s) are ... what is the cost of the battery pack, electronics etc when it goes belly up (as everything does). Do parts only come from the dealer? Are they the only ones who will work on it? Those only get answered with time, but with a conventional autos the long term costs are more quantifiable.

On the other hand, owning a car may be a thing of the past, more like a three year lease arrangement. The times they are a changin'

Now I know everything comes with a caveat and nothing is 100% but Tesla said that the batteries on 2020 and newer should retain 90% of their charge at 160k miles. Said they should last 300k or more.

Now I know that there will be cars that are lemons etc but if that's true it should be a very inexpensive car to own. We have owned one for 3 years total now and only spent around ($500) give or take over those three years.

Dealing with Tesla has been really easy as well, when you want your tires rotated, ( I think it was $80 or so) you just plug it in the app and they have someone come out to your house and do it in your driveway, they are in and out in about 10 minutes.

Your right if the battery pack is a lemon then I get it , might be a lot of money .

And if your comparing a prius or a inexpensive car that gets great gas mileage then it may not make much sense but if you want premium cars/trucks that take premium unleaded etc it will save you a ton of money, but my wife loves it because its just an amazing car.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by Valiant

I still wish we were trying to push hydrogen cells more.

Evs are great until states and federal tax regulations eventually hit you for new taxes that will need to be created. I assume you will eventually be charged a mile tax per year. What is the cost to replace the batteries? Do they have memory problems after so many charges? The fact they may be more hazardous to the environment than gas, From mining, recycling, disposable.

Good step forward. But a hybrid is the way to go for most of the country that has winters.

The local electric coop said that the infrasturcture wouldn't support a charging station and they'd have to run wire a long way to get it there.

I'm no electrical engineer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but that does not bode well for the local infrastructure if the entire town gets EVs and plus them in at night.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

The local electric coop said that the infrasturcture wouldn't support a charging station and they'd have to run wire a long way to get it there.

I'm no electrical engineer nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but that does not bode well for the local infrastructure if the entire town gets EVs and plus them in at night.

DC fast chargers might require some infrastructure development, but typically that's centralized and is more for people passing through. Home charging typically tops out at 50 amps (mine is 30), which is about what an air conditioner uses. If people all charge at the same time during the day in the middle of the summer while everyone's AC is running, it could cause some issues, but it shouldn't be a huge issue at night.

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by DaFace

DC fast chargers might require some infrastructure development, but typically that's centralized and is more for people passing through. Home charging typically tops out at 50 amps (mine is 30), which is about what an air conditioner uses. If people all charge at the same time during the day in the middle of the summer while everyone's AC is running, it could cause some issues, but it shouldn't be a huge issue at night.

I'm not sure which number you're referencing (30 vs 50 amps), but even 30 would be massively inefficient for a modern AC. For instance I just went & looked, the 4 ton unit at my work's minimum circuit ampacity is 16.7. The unit probably actually draws less than 15. That's a 20 year old 4 ton unit (the biggest residential unit is 5 tons) hardly the most efficient thing you'll find now days.

So you could basically run two 4 ton AC's for what you use to charge your car, now if you're wife wants one to that's 4 AC's & god forbid you get the 50 amp version, no the two of you are using the equivalent of like 6 AC units just to charge your cars.

Also adding 2 cars at 50 amps a piece is a massive electrical upgrade. Most people with gas appliances have 100 Amp service running their entire house.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by ScareCrowe

I'm not sure which number you're referencing (30 vs 50 amps), but even 30 would be massively inefficient for a modern AC. For instance I just went & looked, the 4 ton unit at my work's minimum circuit ampacity is 16.7. The unit probably actually draws less than 15. That's a 20 year old 4 ton unit (the biggest residential unit is 5 tons) hardly the most efficient thing you'll find now days.

So you could basically run two 4 ton AC's for what you use to charge your car, now if you're wife wants one to that's 4 AC's & god forbid you get the 50 amp version, no the two of you are using the equivalent of like 6 AC units just to charge your cars.

Also adding 2 cars at 50 amps a piece is a massive electrical upgrade. Most people with gas appliances have 100 Amp service running their entire house.

Eh I don't know. Like I said, I know nothing and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn, but my stove requires a 50 amp breaker, and both this house and the last one I had both had 50 amp service to the stove. So IDK what my total service is, but it's probably higher than 100.

But yeah, if you have to get new circuit runs through a finished house (if some dumbtard doesn't put the breaker in the garage), or God forbid have to run new copper to the pole, that's tougher.

[Macroach]

Originally Posted by DaFace

DC fast chargers might require some infrastructure development, but typically that's centralized and is more for people passing through. Home charging typically tops out at 50 amps (mine is 30), which is about what an air conditioner uses. If people all charge at the same time during the day in the middle of the summer while everyone's AC is running, it could cause some issues, but it shouldn't be a huge issue at night.

DC fast chargers such as the Tesla superchargers would take some development but as you say, they are mainly for people passing through.

I know it’s different depending on the region of the country, but where i live, the biggest load is peak AC usage in the summer. Most of the heating is from natural gas and it doesn’t get that cold here. So a typical load curve in the summer is a steady climb until around 5-6 pm. The local utility (where I also work) is very aggressive with load peak management, using time of use pricing to encourage people to charge their EV’s when load is the lowest.

In my house I have a Tesla charger but I could have easily installed a NEMA 14-50 RV style plug and used that as well. Because of the pricing breaks for EV owners, I set the charge to occur between midnight and 6 am, at a price of around 8 cents / kWH.

I love the Model Y Performance. If anyone is interested in geeking out over any aspects of it, I would be happy to build an even bigger wall of text.

[BleedingRed]

EV's are so amazing! well until is a natural disaster and a power outage..... But honestly some states can't keep up with power generation demands right now. What makes you think adding a tens of millions of EV's will help with that.

[Oxford]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

EV's are so amazing! well until is a natural disaster and a power outage..... But honestly some states can't keep up with power generation demands right now. What makes you think adding a tens of millions of EV's will help with that.

Made sense when you had base-load coal fired plants that had virtually no load at midnight. Well we'll just add one of those to deal with the increased demand.......... oh wait............ gas fired peaking turbine anyone?

[ScareCrowe]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Eh I don't know. Like I said, I know nothing and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn, but my stove requires a 50 amp breaker, and both this house and the last one I had both had 50 amp service to the stove. So IDK what my total service is, but it's probably higher than 100.

But yeah, if you have to get new circuit runs through a finished house (if some dumbtard doesn't put the breaker in the garage), or God forbid have to run new copper to the pole, that's tougher.

If you have a 50 amp running to your stove you have an electric stove & probably electric furnace water heater etc. & will have a 200 amp panel minimally. Electric houses need at least 200 amps because your electric furnace can easily draw close to 100 amps alone, plus 40 for your stove, 30 for the water heater & probably another 30 for the drier. Then you still have all your lights & outlets. Most houses aren't in a position to add 60-100 amps that 2 cars would require.

And that doesn't get into the power feeding the houses, which in most cases wouldn't accommodate more than a couple houses in a given neighborhood adding 60-100 amps of service. I've had a couple customers look at replacing a gas furnace with electric, knowing they would have to replace their 100 amp panel with a 200.

However when they contacted the power company to confirm the service providing them will handle it they were told that the transformer feeding their area would have to be enlarged & it would cost them about $25,000 to upgrade. That's one house adding 100 amps of service, what's going to happen when multiple people start trying to add 60+ amps to their current setup? We have a ways to go infrastructure wise before wide scale use of electric vehicles is possible IMO.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

EV's are so amazing! well until is a natural disaster and a power outage..... But honestly some states can't keep up with power generation demands right now. What makes you think adding a tens of millions of EV's will help with that.

The goal is to get almost everybody in the country to have solar panels. Sure it doesn't make sense for everyone but the majority of the country could have solar panels to create a large amount of their power each month. They are becoming more efficient and affordable everyday.

Or you know, we can just continue to be reliant on foreign oil.

I would think any way to lower our reliance on oil would be a cause for a celebration for your no government types. You can control your estate better without the help of the government.

[synthesis2]

Agreed on the Solar Panels, that would be our next big buy.

But having a all electric car sure makes things easier on the wallet now.

We would be spending around $200 a week with our old cars, my family out in LA said gas prices are out of control.

[ScareCrowe]

Honestly solar is the only realistic way to adopt EV's on a wide scale in the relatively near future. It removes the issue of creating & distributing all the additional power necessary to do it. We really need the technology to advance to the point the cars could be powered by their own solar panels, would do wonders for range & a lot of the recharging issues as you would really only need to charge the vehicle after dark.

[bowener]

For people saying our current grid can't handle more electric cars or joke about the apocalypse and being ****ed, you should hang out in Vermont for a bit. I work there off and on during the year and see tons of Teslas and other EVs. I believe Vermont is in the top 5 EVs per person. Vermont is also top 10 for most solar panels per person.

I mention all that because it's some of the most shit weather in the country except May-September. Mud season is shit and winter is really shit but pretty. A lot of people out there are dropping their traditional electric service and going with solar panels plus battery walls and a traditional propane generator for emergencies. Of all states, it might be one of the safest for hiding out during an apocalypse or the water wars in 2050. I've looked into having my farms converted to solar fields, which might be a viable option in the next 10 years. I'd do it now if I were closer to St. Joe or KC.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by bowener

For people saying our current grid can't handle more electric cars or joke about the apocalypse and being ****ed, you should hang out in Vermont for a bit. I work there off and on during the year and see tons of Teslas and other EVs. I believe Vermont is in the top 5 EVs per person. Vermont is also top 10 for most solar panels per person.

I mention all that because it's some of the most shit weather in the country except May-September. Mud season is shit and winter is really shit but pretty. A lot of people out there are dropping their traditional electric service and going with solar panels plus battery walls and a traditional propane generator for emergencies. Of all states, it might be one of the safest for hiding out during an apocalypse or the water wars in 2050. I've looked into having my farms converted to solar fields, which might be a viable option in the next 10 years. I'd do it now if I were closer to St. Joe or KC.

They're not paying enough.