The bee keeper diaries

[Iowanian]

It's a great time to buy stock in eppy pens.

This thread is a repository for bee keepers or those interested.

A couple of years ago, a couple of friends an my brother started puttering with honey bees. I didn't buy off because, well, I've never been a big fan of bees or getting stung by them. Last summer I tagged along a couple of times to check their hives and to remove honey bees from a house, public building and an old garage.

I realized at the end of the summer when I was helping them process some, that it's actually pretty interesting, and fits into my expanding "grow my own" logic. I'm not full blown hippy but I see a lot of logic in the self sustaining food thing and I'm doing some of that too.

That said, this thread is about bees, honey bees, bee keeping and bee fighting war stories.

I'm taking the leap and plan to get 2-3 hives this spring and maybe build some bee swarm traps to make it cheaper or to make a few bucks.

Join me and I'll share the real life lessons of an ameture bee keeper. I'm sure I'm going to learn some things the hard way.

[Iowanian]

Originally Posted by ghak99

Dumb question, but what do you do with a single hive that large when you find one? How large of alive can one queen support?

I found a tree a storm blew out that had one of the largest hives I'd ever seen with multiple entrances. Everything was gone, but I counted endless layers of comb stretching through multiple hollow branches that all joined together in a main trunk I could almost crawl in.

I realized I didn't answer your question.

I'm sure everyone who does hive removal does it a little differently. In a hive that large, there would be old comb, empty comb, new comb, comb with brood(capped larvae as seen in my post above) and drone comb(capped larger pods with drone-males that are pretty useless).

When I get into a give with a large volume, I would start by cutting out the old and empty comb. I put it into a tub, and will set it out for my bees to clean up. Sometimes I feed it to my chickens, but this time I'm going to start melting some down for wax.

If there is quality, capped honey I would cut that and put it aside to either use or sell as comb honey. Some of it I would cut to fit in a frame and use rubber bands to hold it in to place in the new box I'm moving the bees into for starter food.

What you're really looking for are the comb with the capped brood and young larvae. You'll cut those to fit into frames to place into the new box. That's the real value of a cutout in addition to the bees, because there are already babies ready to keep the hive growing. This is in pic 3 of 5 a couple of posts above.

In short, even in a physically large hive, unless it is late in the summer and contains a lot of honey, there is a lot of throw-away comb or old comb that can be melted down for wax.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I realized I didn't answer your question.

I'm sure everyone who does hive removal does it a little differently. In a hive that large, there would be old comb, empty comb, new comb, comb with brood(capped larvae as seen in my post above) and drone comb(capped larger pods with drone-males that are pretty useless).

Have you run into any colony collapse (correct term?) or mass die off of bees in your area?

[Iowanian]

There aren't many large commercial bee yards in my area, so i'm not certain how to answer your question.

Every bee keeper I know has lost hives. My brother had as many as 8-10 and they are all dead right now. Another guy on my bee team is down about 50% of his hives right now. I've bounced between 2-7 live at any given time.

There seem to be multiple things killing them. Sometimes it's conditions like last year where it was too cold too late and a lot of them starved on top of a box of 90lbs of honey. It seems like varroa mites get a lot of them, and as I've mentioned before I'm convinced aphid spraying of soy beans is getting a lot of them.

I'm not a scientist or a scholar so I'm not an expert, but I don't think it's rocket science to figure out why colony collapse is a thing.

A lot of keepers ship their hives to a common place and then they are shipped south on a tour from Florida-texas and then to California for the almond groves. Bees from all over the country to go one place on trucks, interact, and a lot of them die.

To me it's like going to spring break cruise...long trip, there are girls there with the flu, one food worker with norovirus and a couple loose women with STDs.....and people wonder why there is shit on the walls of the ship when it gets back to port.

You can make as much money per hive doing pollination as selling honey...but I'm not sending my bees there, even if I get enough to make it an option.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Groves

Here's the full capture and install of a swarm issued by my hive.

https://www.facebook.com/grovesthegr...1251775474479/

That was very cool.

I'm completely stunned that you did that with noting more than a hat with mesh, -- short sleeves no less. WTF? You carried the hive around and then dumped it into the box with practically no protective gear.

Is that typical? Why the heck aren't they stinging the crap out of you for messing with their hive??

[Iowanian]

Swarm bees are very gentle. There isn't a hive to protect and they've just gorged themselves on Honey. Think about how you feel on Thanksgiving day after pie when the Lions are on.

[redfan]

I've been monitoring the hives for queen cells (in between all of the rain we've been having) and I finally found a couple that looked viable.
They were in the lower super above the top deep, kinda odd place but I've seen queen cells all over the hives in odd places.
Last month I made a queen castle (a deep divided into 4 2-frame chambers each with its own entrance), and I've been itching to use it ever since.
Everything growing around where I live seems to be a couple of weeks later than last year, and the bees are following suit. I had a hive swarm 2-3 times by this time last year. This year, they're just now making/capping queen cells.

On Sunday, I pulled the frame that had good looking cells and put it in the queen castle. Then I pulled a deep frame that had a good mix of capped brood and honey and put it in there as well.
I went back about 3 hours later and saw a couple bees leave from the entrance; a good sign. Hopefully it'll take!

[Groves]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Is that typical? Why the heck aren't they stinging the crap out of you for messing with their hive??

Iowanian already answered, but I’ll chime in.

A place where bees build comb/raise babies/store honey is called a hive. The group of bees living in the hive is called a colony. A group of bees that have loaded up on food in their stomach and shooed the old or new queen out to sit while they go find new digs is called a swarm.

Bees protect hives, but swarms don’t protect anything. That’s the main reason I just wear a veil, and don’t really need that even.

A few years ago the swarms from my hive gathered 12ft high in a cherry tree. I put a step ladder in the bed of my truck and climbed it to ship off the branch.

It went well enough, but one of my sons had the job of steadying the ladder. I was as gentle as possible with the cluster, but a clump or two did fall.

The boy talks like it was a lowlight of life, but I can tell it was a proud moment for him. He continued to steady the ladder even though a few hundred bees fell on his bare head/chest/arms.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Iowanian]

I spent last night and part of today building bee traps and put 3 out. I've been mouthing off about them for a couple of years here, but they are strapped into sound locations, scented with old, smelly comb and some lemon grass oil. The tree in the pic has had bees in it at least since the 80s. That is one reason I think this is a good spot.

I put one close to my office and I'll check the others each week and report back when I get anything. If I don't have anything in a couple of weeks I'll make adjustments to their location.

...and yes, half of the shit in my shop is broken

[KS Smitty]

Are you hoping to attract a queen into the box and the rest will follow or do the worker bees prepare the hive for the queen and then she moves in?

Glad you guys are posting pictures along with your info. I really haven't seen many bees at all this spring, not even the dumb-blebees (wood bees) are as numerous as they usually are.

[Iowanian]

I'm hoping entire swarms move in.

When the bees swarm out of a hive( naturally way to propagate, the old queen and half of the bees leave)... they ball up around the queen and scout bees go out and search for a new home. They report back "hey I found a 3 bed 1 bath fixer upper in a bad neighborhood" and another says "hey I just found a 4 bed 2 bath near good schools that already has some delicious stinky old comb...let's go there to live".

Then the entire swarm flies to that spot and moves in and starts building.

Once a swarm moves in, I'll give them some time to build up, hopefully lay some eggs and feel like home....then I will go soon the disc some evening and close the entrance and move the hive to my bee yard and place the frames and bees into a hive box.

....and go re-set the trap. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[mlyonsd]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

I'm hoping entire swarms move in.

When the bees swarm out of a hive( naturally way to propagate, the old queen and half of the bees leave)... they ball up around the queen and scout bees go out and search for a new home. They report back "hey I found a 3 bed 1 bath fixer upper in a bad neighborhood" and another says "hey I just found a 4 bed 2 bath near good schools that already has some delicious stinky old comb...let's go there to live".

Then the entire swarm flies to that spot and moves in and starts building.

Once a swarm moves in, I'll give them some time to build up, hopefully lay some eggs and feel like home....then I will go soon the disc some evening and close the entrance and move the hive to my bee yard and place the frames and bees into a hive box.

....and go re-set the trap. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

Don't laugh at this question.

Are all honey producers one breed of 'bee'? Are there multiple breeds that produce honey?

[Mephistopheles Janx]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Don't laugh at this question.

Are all honey producers one breed of 'bee'? Are there multiple breeds that produce honey?

Multiple... and they all have their individual pros and cons.

for example:

Italian- Apis mellifera ligustica GOOD TRAITS: Very gentle, good brood pattern, isn't so prone to swarm as much, great honey producer, light on excess propolis and makes nice looking white comb honey. A great bee for someone new to beekeeping. POOR TRAITS: Can drift between hives and not find their home. Are prone to rob other hives during a dearth. A dearth is a lull in nectar flow.

Caucasian- Apis mellifera caucasca GOOD TRAITS: They have a long proboscis or tongue. So they can work certain flowers other honey bees cannot. Very gentle. POOR TRAITS: They don't build up very fast in the spring and are very heavy on propolis, making the hive very sticky to work. Can rob more.

Carniolan- Apis mellifera carnica GOOD TRAITS: Explosive spring build up, are not so prone to rob, are very, very gentle, and good comb producers. POOR TRAITS: Explosive build up means more swarms. Honey production is less than the Italian bee.

Russian- Hybrid A product of the U.S. Dept. Of Agriculture's Honey Bee Breeding Genetics, and Physiology Lab of Baton Rouge, Louisiana by importing this bee from the Primorski region of the Sea of Japan because it had survived mites for 150 years. It is not a species but a hybrid.GOOD TRAITS: Bred to be more resistant to mites and more winter Hardy. POOR TRAITS: Produces lots of propolis, always seems to have swarm cells in the hive, and moderate honey producer.

Buckfast- Hybrid

A product of Brother Adam (1898-1996). He spent his entire life perfecting the Buckfast honey bee hybrid. He claimed to have eaten a teaspoon of honey a day and in case you don't want to do the math, he lived to be 98!

GOOD TRAITS: Strong resistance to tracheal mites and good hygienic behavior.
POOR TRAITS: Can be defensive.


Minnesota Hygienic- Hybrid A result of the work of Dr. Marla Spivak of the University of Minnesota. A few months ago, my wife and I traveled to a queen rearing conference in Ohio where Gary Reuter was one of the main speakers. Gary is a Research Technician at the University of Minnesota working with Dr. Marla Spivak. Dr. Spivak and her team were able to produce a trait within breeder queens, a trait where the bees are able to reduce disease by being exceptionally hygienic.

GOOD TRAITS: Good honey producers and more able to resist American foulbrood disease. POOR TRAITS: Those mostly common to the Italian bee since this is an Italian bee. Many other beekeepers and breeders have their special line of queens that they are breeding, making claims, that to them, are very true and founded. But to be honest, there is always the flip side. To gain a positive characteristic may mean you gain two negative characteristics. It is very difficult to hold a pure line or race of honey bees. The more important factor is that they are produced from a colony that has satisfactory or higher traits.

https://www.honeybeesonline.com/diff...of-honey-bees/

[Iowanian]

No...not a dumb question. I don't pretend to know everything.

There are several species/variety of honey bee.
Italians and carniolan areprobbaly the most common species in North America. Some people raise Russians...which are bitchy but make a lot of honey and are harder to kill. I've also heard of caucasians

I'm interested in a newer hybrid one called saksatraz.

I had to look up others in North America....starline(hybrid Italian) cordovan, midnight, buckfast( discussed in earlier posts about Nortre Dame) German/English native, Lus, Africanized.

[Iowanian]

I copied this from web. Each variety has a strength.

Races of Honey Bees in North America



There are several popular races of honey bees raised in North American for honey. There are others around the world but we will just talk about the ones that are here. I will preface this with this observation. I have not seen dramatic differences in the races of bees. They all do well when managed well. They all do poorly when they are not managed well. The differences noted are slight. When a race is mentioned as "swarmy", keep in mind that all bees swarm if crowded. A "swarmy" race is just a little more prone, not a lot more prone to swarm. Differences of individual colonies is often greater than the generalizations mentioned here. Another example is a race that is known for being gentle may not be any more gentle than any other gentle hive of some other race, but are less likely to have a hot one.

____________________________________


Italian

Apis mellifera ligustica. This is the most popular bee in North American. These, as all of the commercial bees, are gentle and good producers. They use less propolis than some of the darker bees. They usually have bands on their abdomen of brown to yellow color. Their biggest weakness is that they are prone to rob and drift. Most of these (as all of the queens) are bred and raised in the south, but you can find some northern breeders.

Starline

These are just hybrid Italians. Two strains of Italians are kept separate and their hybrid is what the Starline queen is. They are very prolific and productive, but subsequent queens (supersedures, emergency and swarms) are disappointing. If you buy Starlines every year to requeen they will give you very good service. Unfortunately I don't know of any available anymore. They used to come from York and before that Dadant.

Cordovan

These are a subset of the Italians. In theory you could have a Cordovan in any breed, since it's technically just a color, but the ones for sale in North American that I've seen are all Italians. They are slightly more gentle, slightly more likely to rob and quite striking to look at. They have no black on them and look very yellow at first sight. Looking closely you see that where the Italians normally have black legs and head, they have a purplish brown legs and head.

Caucasian

Apis mellifera caucasica. They are a silver gray to dark brown color. They do propolis excessively. It is a sticky propolis rather than a hard propolis. They build up a little slower in the spring than the Italians. They are reputed to be more gentle than the Italians. Less prone to robbing. In theory they are less productive than Italians. I think on the average they are about the same productivity as the Italians, but since they rob less you get less of the really booming hives that have robbed out all their neighbors. They are fond of propolis and often coat everything in a sticky kind of propolis, like fly paper.

Carniolan

Apis mellifera carnica. These are darker brown to black. They fly in slightly cooler weather and in theory are better in northern climates. They are reputed by some to be less productive than Italians, but I have not had that experience. The ones I have had were very productive and very frugal for the winter. They winter in small clusters and shut down brood rearing when there are dearths.

Midnite

These are, sort of, to the Caucasians what the Starline is to the Italians. I'm not certain but I always thought they are a pure hybrid Caucasian. But I've also heard they are a cross of Caucasian and Carniolan. They have that hybrid vigor that disappears in the next generation of queen. York used to sell them and before them Dadant. I don't know where they are available anymore.

Russian

I have heard several possibilities: Apis mellifera caucasica, Apis mellifera acervorum or Apis mellifera carpatica. Not sure of the exact variety here in the US. They came from the Primorsky region. They were used for breeding mite resistance because they were already surviving the mites. They are a bit defensive, but in odd ways. They tend to head butt a lot while not stinging any more. They are watchful guards, but not "runny" (tending to run around on the comb where you can't find the queen or work with them well). Swarminess and productivity are a bit more unpredictable. Traits are not well fixed. Frugality is similar to the Carniolans. They were brought to the USA by the USDA in June of 1997, studied on an island in Louisiana and then field testing in other states in 1999. They went on sale to the general public in 2000.

Buckfast

These are a mixture of bees developed by Brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey. I had them for years. They were gentle. They built up rapidly in the spring, produced awesome crops and dropped back in population in the fall. They are just like the Italians as far as robbing. They are resistant to the tracheal mites. They are more frugal than the Italians, but not as much as the Carniolans.

German or English native bees

Apis mellifera mellifera. These are the bees native to England or Germany. They have some of the characteristics of the other dark bees. They do well in damp cold climates. They tend toward being runny (excitable on the combs) and a bit swarmy, but also seem to be well adapted to Northern climates.

LUS

Small black bees similar to Carniolans or Italians in production and temperament but have mite resistance and have the ability of a laying worker to raise a new queen. This ability is called Thelytoky.

Africanized Honey Bees (AHB)

I have heard these called Apis mellifera scutelata But Scutelata are actually African bees from the Cape. They used to be called Adansonii, at least that's what Dr. Kerr, who bred them, thought they were. AHB are a mixture of African (Scutelata) and Italian bees. They were created in an attempt to increase production of bees. The USDA bred these at Baton Rouge from July 1942 until 1961. They shipped queens to the continental US at about 1500 queens a year from July 1949 until July of 1961. They were raised in testing labs in Laramie WY, Ontario Canada and Madison, WI. The Brazilians also were experimenting with them and the migration of those bees has been followed in the news for some time. They are extremely productive bees that are extremely defensive. If you have a hive hot enough that you think they are AHB you need to requeen them. Having angry bees where they might hurt people is irresponsible. You should try to requeen them so no one (including you) gets hurt.

[Groves]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

"hey I found a 3 bed 1 bath fixer upper in a bad neighborhood" and another says "hey I just found a 4 bed 2 bath near good schools

I feel like I’ve heard this somewhere. Nice description.



Definitely keep us posted on your traps. It’s a great way to a acquire more colonies.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk