*****The Patrick Mahomes Thread*****

[Dante84]

IT ****ING HAPPENED



OP UPDATE:

Because of all the interest in this thread, I've place all of the video content of Patrick Mahomes II's college career, and draft day goodness into a single post that can be found here. Enjoy!

[RedRaider56]

Originally Posted by Coogs

It was 3rd and 12, and he was throwing for a 1st down. The "bad pass" interpretation was that he missed the throwing lane that Hill was moving towards. The pass is a couple three yards to the left, and it is complete for a 1st down. Throw the ball away, and we are punting... which is sort of a turnover. Check it down, which you have alluded to in other posts, and we are probably punting too.

The strip sack on the play before placed us behind the numbers on 3rd down. That was the play that really "forced" anything.

I don't have a problem with Mahomes going for it on 3rd and long. It's paid off for us many times over his short career. i hope he never loses that edge.

There have been a couple of articles with full breakdowns about Mahomes performance in the SB and they all came to the conclusion is that Mahomes really didn't play badly, even with the 3rd quarter factored in. I'll have to see if I can find one of them.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by RedRaider56

There have been a couple of articles with full breakdowns about Mahomes performance in the SB and they all came to the conclusion is that Mahomes really didn't play badly, even with the 3rd quarter factored in. I'll have to see if I can find one of them.

Oh I agree! I said as much in post 27656.

Originally Posted by Coogs

I wouldn't say Mahomes played like shit for 3 quarters. He really wasn't bad in the first half. The back-to-back Int's in the 3rd and early 4th were not ideal, but he was moving the team on both of those drives too.

Best performance? No. Playing like shit? No.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

C’mon, dude. He forced a pass that hit Warner right between the numbers. He’s taken ownership of it being a bad pass in interviews since the Super Bowl. In 2019, that’s a ball he normally chooses to throw away. In 2018, as we saw against the Rams and and the INT he saw against the Ravens in 2018, it’s a pass he’d sometimes force.

It’s okay to say that Mahomes forced a bad pass or had a bad quarter every now and again.

That was not a bad pass. I blame Warner for probably screwing up his assignment and being on the wrong place.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Coogs

It was 3rd and 12, and he was throwing for a 1st down. The "bad pass" interpretation was that he missed the throwing lane that Hill was moving towards. The pass is a couple three yards to the left, and it is complete for a 1st down. Throw the ball away, and we are punting... which is sort of a turnover. Check it down, which you have alluded to in other posts, and we are probably punting too.

The strip sack on the play before placed us behind the numbers on 3rd down. That was the play that really "forced" anything.

I don't have a problem with Mahomes going for it on 3rd and long. It's paid off for us many times over his short career. i hope he never loses that edge.

It was a clever attempt in a tough spot but Mahomes, Warner just beat him. He tried to change the throwing lane by rolling out, thought he had done so but Warner didn't bite and stayed right where he was supposed to be. Design or accident, Warner did a thing that most LBs in that situation just don't do.

It's one of those times that Mahomes and his ability to adapt/improvise on the fly came back to bite him. The guy sees the field in slow motion, but he doesn't see into the future.

Yet.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It was a clever attempt in a tough spot but Mahomes, Warner just beat him. He tried to change the throwing lane by rolling out, thought he had done so but Warner didn't bite and stayed right where he was supposed to be. Design or accident, Warner did a thing that most LBs in that situation just don't do.

It's one of those times that Mahomes and his ability to adapt/improvise on the fly came back to bite him. The guy sees the field in slow motion, but he doesn't see into the future.

Yet.

I've seen analysis where Hill was moving to the left (Mahomes's left, Hill's right) to where the open lane in the zone was, but Mahomes just missed it. Either way, no biggie. Incomplete or check down and we punt. It just turned into a shorter punt.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It was a clever attempt in a tough spot but Mahomes, Warner just beat him. He tried to change the throwing lane by rolling out, thought he had done so but Warner didn't bite and stayed right where he was supposed to be. Design or accident, Warner did a thing that most LBs in that situation just don't do.

It's one of those times that Mahomes and his ability to adapt/improvise on the fly came back to bite him. The guy sees the field in slow motion, but he doesn't see into the future.

Yet.

Let me preface this because I see now that anything close to criticism of Mahomes could result in me getting expelled from the forum pitch fork and torches style (and I mostly get it ).

Mahomes deserved the Super Bowl MVP. While I wouldn't have been upset had Damien won it - Damien wouldn’t have had the opportunities to score late had Mahomes not been able to take 13 step drop and launching a 57 yard ball without being able to step into the throw due to being hit by Buckner. Damn, we got a Super Bowl and a legendary play out of it. WASP is already known by fans throughout the NFL (even the Denver fans I talk to know the play call) Patrick was against one of the best pass defenses in the last five years and took a level of punishment that would have made most QB’s go full fetal and still overcame. I have rewatched every single play of the Super Bowl because the more time passes the more I love the matchup. The 49ers, on paper, were the perfect counterbalance against us, they were able to consistently bring heat on Patrick with 4 rushers and work to keep Mahomes contained in the pocket. Yet, it didn’t matter, despite all of the punishment, and playing against perhaps the best overall defense he’s played in the NFL, Mahomes shredded them in the 4th Quarter.

But Patrick did have a couple of big misses in the 3rd quarter. I think the INT to Warner, was a combination of a gamble by Patrick, a hell of a play by Warner, but also the throw itself slightly missed the window Patrick needed to hit on the inside (as Coogs referenced). I think, overall, that throw was a gamble that I’m not sure was fully necessary in that time and place in the game. It reminded me of some of his gunslinger INT’s he had in 2018, specifically the ones were Patrick tried to create chicken salad out of **** downfield. While I think Patrick had a bad quarter, this post was made fully defending the narrative that Patrick somehow played poorly the first 3 quarters of the game.

He had only 4 possessions in the first half of the Super Bowl (the 49ers came in to slow the game down and did a brilliant job of it until 8:57 in the Q4), had Damien Williams been looking for the football, Mahomes would have turned 14 points out of those 4 first half possessions. In the last possession, a big part of what stalled them was Andy getting cute and trying a jet sweep on second down against the fastest linebacking core in the NFL. I think the only difference between Mahomes performance from the first half to Quarter 3 is that Mahomes only took what the 49ers gave him in the first half compared to some of the gambles we saw him take in Q3.

Overall, none of that is meant to be a critique on Patrick. That 49ers defense broke Aaron Rodgers on less punishment in their two matchups against him. In fact, in their two matchups against Rodgers, they held Aaron to an average of zero points in the first halves of those games. That Niners defense, when fully healthy, was a monster to overcome - and Patrick torched their asses regardless.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It was a clever attempt in a tough spot but Mahomes, Warner just beat him. He tried to change the throwing lane by rolling out, thought he had done so but Warner didn't bite and stayed right where he was supposed to be. Design or accident, Warner did a thing that most LBs in that situation just don't do.

It's one of those times that Mahomes and his ability to adapt/improvise on the fly came back to bite him. The guy sees the field in slow motion, but he doesn't see into the future.

Yet.

Warner is one of my favorite young linebackers in the game. He's perhaps not as good as he should be in the run game, but he's terrific in the passing game.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Warner is one of my favorite young linebackers in the game. He's perhaps not as good as he should be in the run game, but he's terrific in the passing game.

He's a ton of fun to watch. He has terrific instincts, great speed, and is one of those players who always seems to be around the ball. Honestly, if Gay turns out to be 80% of the player Warner is, 19-0 feels like a real possibility. Even Warner's jawing on the field with Kelce and Mahomes was all good-natured/light ribbing once we heard the mic'd up. In fact, that whole SF team has a lot of fun personalities, it'll be a shame if they're held back 90's Chiefs style by their QB and a coach who is the Michael Jordan of botching the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

He's a ton of fun to watch. He has terrific instincts, great speed, and is one of those players who always seems to be around the ball. Honestly, if Gay turns out to be 80% of the player Warner is, 19-0 feels like a real possibility. Even Warner's jawing on the field with Kelce and Mahomes was all good-natured/light ribbing once we heard the mic'd up. In fact, that whole SF team has a lot of fun personalities, it'll be a shame if they're held back 90's Chiefs style by their QB and a coach who is the Michael Jordan of botching the 4th quarter.

I almost hate how good Lynch has been as a GM. He's completely botched the most important position, but has killed just about everything else.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

I almost hate how good Lynch has been as a GM. He's completely botched the most important position, but has killed just about everything else.

Lynch took a lot of heat for some of his early moves but damn if he did not hit on almost every single one. He had the luxury of having high picks, so he (similar to Ballard) will still have to prove they can be consistently good with later picks in the draft. With that said, he has made some forward thinking decisions that really set-up the Niners well to compete for a long time. I also loved how they handled their salary crunch and trading away Buckner for a mid-level #1 pick.

Honestly, the only moves that I'd criticize are Jimmy G's and Dee Ford's contracts. Jimmy G feels like a Kyle Shanahan move, a guy who understands the offense and operates out of the play-action. Honestly, if Jimmy G. had mobility he would remind me a lot of late-career Elway and Plummer. Watching their mis-direction and play action in the SB was like watching Plummer run over Eric Hicks and our mid-2000's defense. Shanny had a way of taking these unheralded running backs and making them thrive in his offenses, and Kyle has seemed to take the model and expand on it in SF with how he uses Deebo. Unfortunately for the 49ers, you're almost always going to need your QB to make tough throws in crunch time to win the Super Bowl. Elway could do this, Plummer could not - and I think the jury's still out about whether Jimmy G. can.

While I do admire the work Lynch has done, it was still slightly poetic to see him come down on the field too early in the 4th and watch him have a front row seat to Mahomes' excellence in the 4th quarter. His expression after Mahomes escaped Bosa's sack to sling it to Kelce for a first down felt like he knew exactly what was about to happen.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

I almost hate how good Lynch has been as a GM. He's completely botched the most important position, but has killed just about everything else.

He royally ****ed up the first three rounds of 2017. If not for Kittle, that draft would be a ****bortion. 2019 with the high pick was easy to find success.

Lynch is fine as a GM. But there are at least a dozen GMs in the NFL at his level or better. Let's not put him on a pedestal.

[eDave]

Originally Posted by Valiant

****ing Alex Smith.

Smith got us Mahomes. Get off his nuts.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Warner is one of my favorite young linebackers in the game. He's perhaps not as good as he should be in the run game, but he's terrific in the passing game.

He's one of the few guys I cited specifically when I did the homework on how half-assed the Chiefs have been in trying to find an off-ball linebacker for nearly 20 years.

They haven't even tried. And so several middle-round guys like Warner that they could've easily stumbled onto in the last several years had they emphasized the position have gone on to have good careers elsewhere.

Hopefully Gay signifies their realization that they need to actually make an effort here and there.

[DJ's left nut]

Here's the old post:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1496

Spoiler!

Well you run into the same problem we run into when asking why Dorsey didn't draft more difference makers on defense - priority.

I mean...we haven't really tried.

Lets look at all the capital spent on off-ball LBs since DJ (I assume you're not including Hali, Houston or Ford in this and mean strictly off-ball guys not edge players):

2006: None
2007: None
2008: None
2009: None

So right away we have a 4 year stretch where we put literally NOTHING at the position. Not even a 7th round pick.

2010: Maybe you squint and say Cameron Sheffield at pick 142; a converted DE.
2011: Gabe Miller - pick 140
2012: None
2013: Nico Johnson - pick 99
2014: None
2015: Ramik Wilson -Pick 118 and DJ Alexander at 172
2016: None
2017: Ukeme Eligwe - pick 183
2018: DoD - Pick 100


In 14 years --- FOURTEEN YEARS -- we've drafted seven guys who might be classified as off-ball linebackers and even that includes DJ Alexander and Cam Sheffield who were always seen as some kind of hybrid/edge sort of players. But give ya all 7 just to be sporting; one every other year.

And in that lot we have a 3rd rounder (dead back of the round) two 4th rounders and four 5th rounders. I mean shit, since 2005 we've spent a 3rd and a 7th on a kicker and a punter. Even the trades are 5th rounders in 2 seasons for Ragland and stuff like that; nominal assets.

Now to some degree it's explained by the time we spent in a 3-4 over that period AND the presence of DJ. You've never felt the need to prioritize the position. But it's still worth pointing out that we've struggled there because we haven't tried - rightly or wrongly, we simply haven't made an effort at that position. We've drafted better than half that lot in the 5th round and spent a 5th rounder on Ragland. Value the position at roughly the 5th round and you probably shouldn't be surprised by a pittance of a return.

It's past time to change that thinking.

Spoiler!

Which is how you get to the "maybe just try a few times?" stage of the program.

I'm not gonna kill them for not spotting every single decent potential 4-3 backer; I get that it can be difficult.

But if you won't even spin the wheel here and there, you can't even get a guy like, say, Fred Warner in here. And Warner's a solid player who you'll stumble onto every few seasons if you just make a damn effort.

Just seems strange that we don't.

You have to just friggen try.

[ptlyon]

Originally Posted by eDave

Smith got us Mahomes. Get off his nuts.

We traded up for Mahomes. This makes zero sense.