***Official 2023-2024 NBA Thread***

[dirk digler]

Can't believe the NBA Season is starting tonight. Way to early but here we go.

Lakers vs Nuggets: 6:30PM

Suns vs Warriors: 9PM

Both on TNT

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I have no idea. I barely remember the guy when he was a player. He was decent, as I recall. If I had a take, it would be that his lack of experience is going to prevent him from winning a Ring in LA. But who knows? The NBA at this point is much more about the players and their individual talent than it is about team chemistry/scheme/coaching so maybe he'll just ride a good team to the Finals.

An NBA head coach is like defense at 1b.

A great one doesn't get you much. A bad one can ruin everything.

If Reddick is even average, that's going to be enough for the talent to do...well whatever the talent says it should do.

But Ham wasn't average. He actively impeded the team's ability to get the most out of its talent with weird rotations and a nothing system on offense. He was a bad coach.

I think Redick can be better than Ham on day 1. But do I think he'll get a ring in LA? No - because the Lakers aren't as talented as probably 3 or 4 teams out of the West or the Celtics out of the East (the rest of the East is lousy).

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I'm not sure LeBron cracks the top-5. And MJ was far more athletically gifted/talented than LeBron ever was. LeBron is one of the best players in history, yes, but he's overrated at this point. I can't put him above Kobe, or Bird, or Wilt. Probably not above Bill Russell either.

[KC_Connection]

BREAKING: The Chicago Bulls are trading two-time All-Defensive guard Alex Caruso to the Oklahoma City Thunder for guard Josh Giddey, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/V3t12MA3Uo

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 20, 2024

OKC just got way better. Giddey is trash and Caruso is one of the better defenders in the league.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I'm not sure LeBron cracks the top-5. And MJ was far more athletically gifted/talented than LeBron ever was. LeBron is one of the best players in history, yes, but he's overrated at this point. I can't put him above Kobe, or Bird, or Wilt. Probably not above Bill Russell either.

I think a lot of that is recency bias. I think people forget how flat out unstoppable lebron was in his prime. And a lot of that value came in unglamorous ways like his ability to distribute, rebound and play defense. Really the biggest thing getting in his way from being GOAT is he didn’t have the killer instinct of mj, but nobody will. And if he didn’t insist on playing GM and head coach. As a pure basketball player, gonna disagree with you, he’s easily cemented as #2 at worst.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

BREAKING: The Chicago Bulls are trading two-time All-Defensive guard Alex Caruso to the Oklahoma City Thunder for guard Josh Giddey, sources tell ESPN. pic.twitter.com/V3t12MA3Uo

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 20, 2024

OKC just got way better. Giddey is trash and Caruso is one of the better defenders in the league.

yeah - Lakers messed up letting Caruso get away. That's a true 3-and-D perimeter player and those have a lot of value.

Surprised Chicago unloaded him for as little as they did.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I’ve come to respect lebron as he matured and became a better leader over the course of his career. He is easily in the top 2 of all time and obviously plenty of debate between him and Jordan. Without a doubt lebron is the most talented (which includes god given physical characteristics) to ever play the game, and one of the best basketball IQs ever. And I say “one of”, because there were a lot of brilliant players who had no god given talent.

But it’s still Jordan for me. Peak Jordan is the best I’ve ever seen in any sport, which is an insanely high bar when you got guys like tiger out there. Gretzky maybe, but I never followed hockey enough to give an honest opinion. Where mahomes has that rip your heart out mentality behind charm and a smile, Jordan had it but was unapologetically a killer. I respect lebrons killer instinct but Jordan did it better than anyone in any sport. I think that is a GOAT quality that may never be matched for generations to come.

Wait until you get a chance to watch this Mahomes fella..

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Wait until you get a chance to watch this Mahomes fella..

He plays basketball too???

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

yeah - Lakers messed up letting Caruso get away. That's a true 3-and-D perimeter player and those have a lot of value.

Surprised Chicago unloaded him for as little as they did.

Not surprising when you're a Bulls fan.

Should've blown this shit up a long time ago. I knew they were ****ed the day they traded for Vucevic.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think a lot of that is recency bias. I think people forget how flat out unstoppable lebron was in his prime. And a lot of that value came in unglamorous ways like his ability to distribute, rebound and play defense. Really the biggest thing getting in his way from being GOAT is he didn’t have the killer instinct of mj, but nobody will. And if he didn’t insist on playing GM and head coach. As a pure basketball player, gonna disagree with you, he’s easily cemented as #2 at worst.

I agree; it's 100% recency bias. And tbf, for a long time I just conceded that Lebron was 2nd or 3rd all-time; I didn't really analyze it much.


But go back and watch 20 or 30 games of Larry Bird before he hurt his back, when he won MVP three times in a row, and averaged more minutes/points/eFG% per gm than LeBron. Bird was far more clutch and far better in every meaningful way than LeBron ever was. And he was doing it during the hand-check/there's no flagrant fouls era, so scoring was harder back then.

If you brought prime Bird into the 2010-present, he'd average 35+/gm and probably would have 6 championships by now.

Again, just my opinion, didn't do a hardcore mathematical or NextGen type of analysis obviously, but Prime Bird was one of the very best players to ever grace the hardwood. Just saying.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Bird was far more clutch and far better in every meaningful way than LeBron ever was.

With the exception of anything basketball related, that might be true.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

With the exception of anything basketball related, that might be true.

Like I said, just my opinion. However, when I look at both players, and ask myself one question, "who do I want leading my team in a best-of-7 series?" The answer is obvious and clear: The Bird-man, every day, twice on Sunday, no doubt in my mind. Larry Bird in his prime was everything or close to everything that LeBron ever was, and Bird had the killer instinct, like MJ or Kobe, which Lebron never had. I have to take Bird over LeBron at that point. Ymmv.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Like I said, just my opinion. However, when I look at both players, and ask myself one question, "who do I want leading my team in a best-of-7 series?" The answer is obvious and clear: The Bird-man, every day, twice on Sunday, no doubt in my mind. Larry Bird in his prime was everything or close to everything that LeBron ever was, and Bird had the killer instinct, like MJ or Kobe, which Lebron never had. I have to take Bird over LeBron at that point. Ymmv.

I'll take the guy who historically brought a team back from 3-1 in the NBA Finals against a 73 win team myself. Greatest to ever do it.

[KC_Connection]

PPG when facing elimination

▪️LeBron 33.5 PPG (No.1 ALL TIME*)
▪️Jordan 31.3 PPG
▪️Durant 29.9 PPG
▪️Steph 29.2 PPG
▪️Kobe 22.3 PPG

(Shoutout to the reporter who knew that LeBron has ALWAYS been CLUTCH ��) pic.twitter.com/lrS7mfJmg1

— LeBron Factory (@LeBronFactory) June 17, 2024

No "killer instinct" though

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I agree; it's 100% recency bias. And tbf, for a long time I just conceded that Lebron was 2nd or 3rd all-time; I didn't really analyze it much.


But go back and watch 20 or 30 games of Larry Bird before he hurt his back, when he won MVP three times in a row, and averaged more minutes/points/eFG% per gm than LeBron. Bird was far more clutch and far better in every meaningful way than LeBron ever was. And he was doing it during the hand-check/there's no flagrant fouls era, so scoring was harder back then.

If you brought prime Bird into the 2010-present, he'd average 35+/gm and probably would have 6 championships by now.

Again, just my opinion, didn't do a hardcore mathematical or NextGen type of analysis obviously, but Prime Bird was one of the very best players to ever grace the hardwood. Just saying.

Bird is among the best of all time, no doubt. I just think the bar is set extremely high with mj and lebron.

[KC_Connection]

The information @tomhaberstroh uncovered isn’t shocking if you’ve actually watched the games… but it is incredibly damning & does put a GIANT asterisk next to MJ’s DPOY, there’s simply no getting around that. pic.twitter.com/HGFfhxbI9O

— nick wright (@getnickwright) June 21, 2024