Open Carry

[HemiEd]

My last two trips to our little town of Branson West resulted in seeing private citizens with a pistol holstered.

I was right behind one in line at the bank and the other one came in to shoot the shit with the barber cutting my hair. The only thing holding the second guys gun in the holster was gravity, no strap.

I am pro gun and all for peoples rights, but why? Why does someone feel they need to be packing heat while running errands?

It makes me pretty uncomfortable to say the least. Is this person stable enough to packing heat? Is he or she sober? Are they worried about a jealous lover or spouse gunning them down? Is there going to be a shootout?

What is your opinion? Are we all going to have to be packing soon? Are we going to regress to 200 years ago, like the wild west?

Who vetted this person to have this weapon in public?

[scho63]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

The US is the only developed country where innocent people are routinely killed by stray bullets. People can still own guns in those other countries, it's just a little harder. This isn't an unsolvable problem.

There are more weapons in the US than people

If this was as bad as you believe, there would be 5,000 murders a day.

Most of the crime is for money, for taking over territory, domestic violence, organized crime or the occasional nutbag that wants to do a mass murder.

If the government really wanted to stop crime they would keep criminals in jail and do "stop and frisk."

It's rarely legally purchased firearms.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, for comfort I like leather as well. Have a couple WC leather ones that are just great, if pricey. But in AZ you’re going to sweat all over your holster, and at a certain point it’s just a lot of extra trouble, so I reserve the leathers for late fall to early spring. The other 7-8 months of the year I go with things I can toss in the wash.

Also a fan of those GF Kenai chest holsters. Just ordered one for my new 10mm.

New 10mm? Welcome to God’s caliber.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by Bwana

10mm vs a Grizz? Make sure you are shooting hot juiced up hardcast rounds only, to give yourself a chance.

There’s no perfect bear gun just a lot of tradeoffs. I admit a .44 or .454 will have better penetration. But I’d rather have 15-22 shots than 6 or 5, a pistol that is far more comfortable to carry and shoot, and ammo that is (somewhat0 reasonably priced to shoot. All of those other factors, to me, make the 10mm a better choice. I didn’t say perfect. But my EDC is a compact XDM in 10mm with a red dot and 155gr Lehigh bullets with listed speed of about 1400 fps. If I’m in the woods, I change that to hard cast 200 gr Buffalo bore. I can get 6 shots off in the time a .44 gets off 3.

No disrespect to others who view things differently. That’s just my $.02.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by frozenchief

There’s no perfect bear gun just a lot of tradeoffs. I admit a .44 or .454 will have better penetration. But I’d rather have 15-22 shots than 6 or 5, a pistol that is far more comfortable to carry and shoot, and ammo that is (somewhat0 reasonably priced to shoot. All of those other factors, to me, make the 10mm a better choice. I didn’t say perfect. But my EDC is a compact XDM in 10mm with a red dot and 155gr Lehigh bullets with listed speed of about 1400 fps. If I’m in the woods, I change that to hard cast 200 gr Buffalo bore. I can get 6 shots off in the time a .44 gets off 3.

No disrespect to others who view things differently. That’s just my $.02.

Yeah to each their own. I have a Glock 20 and a Glock 29 for bad things with two legs and my .500 with a chest holster for hairy forest creatures, with big teeth. If I'm in deep brush with lots of grizzly's around, when I'm out fly fishing, I bring my Marlin 45/70 guide rifle, loaded up with Garrett 540 Superhardcast hammerhead rounds.

Garrett makes some incredible ammo. They don't give it away, but I'm not sending it downwind at paper. It will definitely get the job done. https://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by Bwana

Yeah to each their own. I have a Glock 20 and a Glock 29 for bad things with two legs and my .500 with a chest holster for hairy forest creatures, with big teeth. If I'm in deep brush with lots of grizzly's around, when I'm out fly fishing, I bring my Marlin 45/70 guide rifle, loaded up with Garrett 540 Superhardcast hammerhead rounds.

Garrett makes some incredible ammo. They don't give it away, but I'm not sending it downwind at paper. It will definitely get the job done. https://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

Speaking of grizz.
Ron White tells a good story about a park ranger in Alaska that killed the biggest one ever seen. I've posted it on The Planet before and someone posted the link to the actual news story about it. Ole Ron gets some of the details wrong but the size of the bear, who shot it and what he shot it with are all correct.
Enjoy.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, for comfort I like leather as well. Have a couple WC leather ones that are just great, if pricey. But in AZ you’re going to sweat all over your holster, and at a certain point it’s just a lot of extra trouble, so I reserve the leathers for late fall to early spring. The other 7-8 months of the year I go with things I can toss in the wash.

Also a fan of those GF Kenai chest holsters. Just ordered one for my new 10mm.

That's why I switched to Kydex. My leather holster was always getting soaked when I go for walks in Kansas super humid summers.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Speaking of grizz.
Ron White tells a good story about a park ranger in Alaska that killed the biggest one ever seen. I've posted it on The Planet before and someone posted the link to the actual news story about it. Ole Ron gets some of the details wrong but the size of the bear, who shot it and what he shot it with are all correct.
Enjoy.

That was good but you might want to put a NSFW tag on it.

[Lzen]

Hey frozenchief and Bwana,
Have you guys ever actually encountered a bear out there? Any good stories?

[seamonster]

Originally Posted by -King-

Maybe in a low stakes situation like a pick pocket where you likely couldn't use your gun legally anyways but in a high stakes situation like active shooter, you would 1000% be a primary target.

That's debatable. Most of these active-shooter's are going after helpless targets. They're not in the 75th Rangers.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bump

the plural for moose is moose

thx

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Bwana

10mm vs a Grizz: Make sure you are shooting hot juiced up hardcast rounds only, to give yourself the best chance to cause maximum damage via penetration. Most 10mm ammo is loaded so lightly, that it ends up performing closer to .40S&W. Double tap, Buffalo Boar, Underwood and Federal has a load that's pretty hot.

Buffalo Bore 180 grain in a 5" revolver averaged 1306 FPS. Underwood 165 grain averaged 1338 FPS. FWIW, Winchester 175 grain Silvertip averaged 1147 FPS, and the old Norma 200 grain load averaged 1211 FPS. Velocities in a 5" semi-auto were not significantly different.

I have both the BB and the Underwoods. I think I like the Underwoods more. Or, the gun does. Slightly less recoil and seem a bit more accurate.


But yeah, penetration is key. Gotta break some big bones to stop a grizz, from everything I've read and everything I've been told by a couple experts.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by Lzen

Hey frozenchief and Bwana,
Have you guys ever actually encountered a bear out there? Any good stories?

Not joking, I have encountered hundreds of bears while camping and fishing. I lived in southwest Alaska for several years on a lake. We had a boat that we kept on the shore. It was maybe 15 yards from our door. Sometimes if I had been fishing and had kept fish in the boat, bears would come sniffing around. Had to chase bears out of the boat.

We had to be careful with garbage in the summer so we didn’t attract bears. Had a truck with a canopy on it and it was common to see paw prints on the truck the morning after I took the garbage to the dump. And I always saw them at the dump.

I go fishing every year still in SW Alaska. Each week we go fishing we see lots of bears. I’ve watched 2 males fight over a fishing spot. Front row seat to Ali-Foreman, if you will. I used to take my son when he was younger. One year he was on the other side of a smaller creek and we were working the water. His side of the river had a small band of rocks/sand right by the river where he was standing. Right next to that the ground cover was tall grass. Decent sized bear poked his head out of the grass about 5 feet away from my son. I told him to just remain calm. The bear looked at us for a few (LONG) seconds and then disappeared back into the grass.

Walking back down a river one day we saw 2 sows, 1 with 2 cubs and 1 with 1. They were on a sand bar and we needed to get past them but they did not like us being there. The larger sow kept pacing back and forth, grunting and snapping her jaws and looking at us. There were three of us - me, my son, and the guide. The guide and I both had our pistols out but we walked slowly on the other side of the river, not looking at them and talking low. They backed up a bit and let us pass.

I’ve done float trips in SW Alaska and 2x had bears try to get in the camp in the middle of the night. Had to fire warning shots into the river to scare them away.

One of my favorite memories comes from one of those float trips. Last night of the trip, we got into silver salmon (coho) and the fishing was great. We had set up our tents on a sand bar and were cooking the salmon. We had 2x baked potatoes and were dredging the salmon in butter and blackening them. We had brought wine and we were cooking dinner at 10:00 at night because the sun was still up. On the other side of the river, the ground rose in a gentle hill and there was a decent sized bear just rolling around on the hill. He wasn’t close, maybe 50-60 yards away and he was not concerned with us at all. But we sat around the fire eating salmon caught 10 minutes before, salmon still bright and silver from the ocean, even bearing sea lice (small parasite that cannot live in fresh water, so the salmon was super fresh) and watched that bear roll around and stand up and. From all appearances, it was just having fun.

All told, I estimate I’ve seen > 500 brown bears in the Alaska wilderness. They are far smarter than you realize. When you see them, you know they are thinking, far more than the smartest dog you’ve ever met. They do stink - they smell like wet dog and shit and rotting salmon. But they’re unbelievably magnificent creatures. Just maintain respect.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by Bwana

Yeah to each their own. I have a Glock 20 and a Glock 29 for bad things with two legs and my .500 with a chest holster for hairy forest creatures, with big teeth. If I'm in deep brush with lots of grizzly's around, when I'm out fly fishing, I bring my Marlin 45/70 guide rifle, loaded up with Garrett 540 Superhardcast hammerhead rounds.

Garrett makes some incredible ammo. They don't give it away, but I'm not sending it downwind at paper. It will definitely get the job done. https://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

A buddy of mine takes a Remington 870 with a pistol grip when he goes fishing. it's a really logical choice in many ways when you're out on a remote Alaska stream. But it's a PITA to carry and I've seen him put it down so he can go work the water. A good gun in hand beats a great gun on the ground which is why I don't carry a long gun to deal with bears. If I were to take a long gun, I would use just what you do: a Marlin 45/70. Again, there's not a right or wrong answer (within reason) but just my own calculus.

Stay safe.

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by Bump

the plural for moose is moose

Meese

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by frozenchief

Not joking, I have encountered hundreds of bears while camping and fishing. I lived in southwest Alaska for several years on a lake. We had a boat that we kept on the shore. It was maybe 15 yards from our door. Sometimes if I had been fishing and had kept fish in the boat, bears would come sniffing around. Had to chase bears out of the boat.

We had to be careful with garbage in the summer so we didn’t attract bears. Had a truck with a canopy on it and it was common to see paw prints on the truck the morning after I took the garbage to the dump. And I always saw them at the dump.

I go fishing every year still in SW Alaska. Each week we go fishing we see lots of bears. I’ve watched 2 males fight over a fishing spot. Front row seat to Ali-Foreman, if you will. I used to take my son when he was younger. One year he was on the other side of a smaller creek and we were working the water. His side of the river had a small band of rocks/sand right by the river where he was standing. Right next to that the ground cover was tall grass. Decent sized bear poked his head out of the grass about 5 feet away from my son. I told him to just remain calm. The bear looked at us for a few (LONG) seconds and then disappeared back into the grass.

Walking back down a river one day we saw 2 sows, 1 with 2 cubs and 1 with 1. They were on a sand bar and we needed to get past them but they did not like us being there. The larger sow kept pacing back and forth, grunting and snapping her jaws and looking at us. There were three of us - me, my son, and the guide. The guide and I both had our pistols out but we walked slowly on the other side of the river, not looking at them and talking low. They backed up a bit and let us pass.

I’ve done float trips in SW Alaska and 2x had bears try to get in the camp in the middle of the night. Had to fire warning shots into the river to scare them away.

One of my favorite memories comes from one of those float trips. Last night of the trip, we got into silver salmon (coho) and the fishing was great. We had set up our tents on a sand bar and were cooking the salmon. We had 2x baked potatoes and were dredging the salmon in butter and blackening them. We had brought wine and we were cooking dinner at 10:00 at night because the sun was still up. On the other side of the river, the ground rose in a gentle hill and there was a decent sized bear just rolling around on the hill. He wasn’t close, maybe 50-60 yards away and he was not concerned with us at all. But we sat around the fire eating salmon caught 10 minutes before, salmon still bright and silver from the ocean, even bearing sea lice (small parasite that cannot live in fresh water, so the salmon was super fresh) and watched that bear roll around and stand up and. From all appearances, it was just having fun.

All told, I estimate I’ve seen > 500 brown bears in the Alaska wilderness. They are far smarter than you realize. When you see them, you know they are thinking, far more than the smartest dog you’ve ever met. They do stink - they smell like wet dog and shit and rotting salmon. But they’re unbelievably magnificent creatures. Just maintain respect.

Wow! Those are incredible stories.