Off Season Lets Talk Guns, Part 2

[HonestChieffan]

Been a while since we had a guns n' ammo discussion.


Some of you are AR shooters Im sure. Im looking at a Colt 6920. Will be my first AR. Picked up a Glock this fall and really enjoy shooting it. Any feedback on that weapon?



Anyone else been in a buy/sell/trade mood with hardware?

[banyon]

Originally Posted by hometeam

I bought a cheap kel tec sub2000 a couple weeks ago, going to pick it up from FFL tomorrow.

Thats 2 pistol caliber carbines in the collection, and a wishlist about a mile long. Does anyone else have an unhleathy obsession with PCCs?

Kel Tec p32 is my Carry weapon but I’ve never messed with their pistol carbines.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by hometeam

I bought a cheap kel tec sub2000 a couple weeks ago, going to pick it up from FFL tomorrow.

Thats 2 pistol caliber carbines in the collection, and a wishlist about a mile long. Does anyone else have an unhleathy obsession with PCCs?

I got one of those for my mother. For people that don't shoot they're much easier to aim with three points of contact, virtually zero recoil to bother with, and makes the 33-rd mag actually useful, because there's no way my mom's going to drop a mag and reload.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by mac459

You don’t want 00 buck for home defense, they will blow through walls and will **** up whatever they hit on the other side. You want #4 buckshot, if you are going to use a shotgun for home defense. Especially if it’s in an apartment complex, you blow through walls and into a neighbor apartment. The legal consequences that you could face would be worse than the robbery.

Yep. that's what I keep mine loaded with and for that reason. Whoever you shoot is deader than Elvis and there is less chance of collateral damage.

[Chief Roundup]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Got one of those next to the night stand

I like the Mossberg 590A1 better than the Remington.


I am thinking about a pistol.

I have had a Taurus 9mm, a S&W .22 revolver. I have shot my dads Sig P226.
I am thinking about getting a glock.
Those of you with a more experience than me, not that it would take much, inform me about why to or not to buy the glock over your favorite pistol. I am not really wanting a revolver.
Is a .40 better than a 9mm?
What you got for me?

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

I like the Mossberg 590A1 better than the Remington.


I am thinking about a pistol.

I have had a Taurus 9mm, a S&W .22 revolver. I have shot my dads Sig P226.
I am thinking about getting a glock.
Those of you with a more experience than me, not that it would take much, inform me about why to or not to buy the glock over your favorite pistol. I am not really wanting a revolver.
Is a .40 better than a 9mm?
What you got for me?

What's your budget and what is the gun for? Home defense? Concealed carry? Open carry? Just plinking? Competition? Do you have hand/arm/shoulder issues that might prevent you from shooting larger/heavier recoiling calibers or racking the slider quickly?

If it's for carry, does your budget include the holster?

If it's for defense of any kind, defensive ammo is significantly more expensive than practice ammo. Your budget should include this.

Inquiring minds want to know . . .

[Chief Roundup]

Home defense backup and plinking, fun but cool. No medical issues like you mentioned. $600 for the pistol. $850 or so right now to spend total.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk

[Megatron96]

Okay.

First, caliber. There's no empirical data that says a .40 S&W caliber round is any more effective than a 9mm round for stopping BGs (bad guys). The .40 S&W, being heavier will tend to penetrate more deeply than any 9mm or go through materials that a 9mm might not. Also, heavier bullets come with more recoil, that's just physics. A heavier gun might mitigate some of that felt recoil energy, but it might not, depending on a variety of factors.

So, bottom line, for most people you're just better off getting a 9mm pistol unless you just have to have a .40 S&W. 9mms are cheaper to buy, and so is the ammo. All other things being equal, a 9mm pistol will hold more rounds as well, which we call firepower.

Glocks are fine weapons, and I'm assuming here, but it sounds like you're looking at primarily either a Glock 17 or Glock 19. Brand new Glocks are currently in their 5th generation, or gen 5. But from an operational standpoint, all Glocks regardless of generation are the same. Gens 4 and 5 have finger grooves and interchangeable backstraps that can allow some customization of the size and shape of the grip.
The Glock 19 is slightly smaller than the duty-size (police or military) Glock 17. The 17 is slight longer than the 19, and the grip is also slightly longer, but otherwise they are identical guns. Most average size men can comfortably conceal aGlock 19, but would have some trouble concealing a 17.

The 17 holds 17 rounds, while the 19 just 15 in their respective magazines.

Glocks brand new generally sell for about $600, so inside your budget. Both the 17 and the 19 will be around that price. A used Glock will be around $400 or less.

Holsters will costs anywhere from $50 up to several hundred bucks. This is where some dork will tell you "I bought an Uncle Mike's nylon holster for $20 just the other day." Don't buy nylon holsters. They suck. Buy Kydex, leather, or a hybrid. Remember, nylon sucks.

There are many choices besides Glock, such as the S&W M&P line, which is my go-to brand/model choice, but to each their own. The M&Ps are functionally and performance-wise the closest to the Glock, IMHO. And the M&Ps are generally slightly cheaper. I can get a brand new S&W M&P9C 2.0 (Glock 19 competitor) for about $450.

Beretta APX is another good pistol, for example.

You need to test drive as many pistols that are similar to the Glock as possible to make an educated choice. Or just buy the Glock. They are excellent weapons for your stated purpose.

Hope some of that helps.

[Megatron96]

Why do i like the S&W M&P line over the Glock?

Bottom line, the Glock, while functionally a very good gun, is blocky and I don't have really big hands. By blocky I mean Glock grips are built around 90 degree angles, like a 2x4. This feels uncomfortable to me, and when I'm in a hurry it can make my Glock hard to index by feel. That means that when I bring the gun up to my sightline, often the front sight is kacked off a little to the left or right of center.

M&P grips are contoured, rounded, like a muscle. They have a palm swell, a slightly curved backstrap and frontstrap, so that it fits in my average-sized hands better than my Glock, and makes indexing unconscious. When I'm shooting fast from the surrender position with the gun holstered tenths of seconds count. Coincidentally those tenths of a second also count when defending your life.

A minor issue is that Glocks come stock with plastic sights. And for some unknown stupid reason that plastic isn't the same super durable polymer they make the frame of the gun out of. So after just a few range sessions, the front sight on my Glock snapped off. I was going to replace them anyway with night sights, but I was annoyed that Glock decided to go cheap over about 10 bucks worth of steel. This may or may not be an issue for you.

[Megatron96]

Last issue I have with Glocks concerns safety.

When disassembling a Glock for cleaning/maintenance, you are required to press the trigger before pulling down on the take-down tabs on either side of the frame. Most Glock NGs (negligent discharges) occur during disassembly, because someone forgets to double check that the chamber is actually empty. They press the trigger as they're expected to on a live round while sitting at their desk at home, and BANG the gun fires a round when you weren't expecting it to.

M&Ps have a tab inside the breech that you flip down, allowing you to take down the weapon without having to press the trigger. I like that.

Again, this may or may not be an issue for you, that's your preference. I don't like it, so it was just another reason for me to buy a S&W M&P.

Other handguns that fit your budget, are similar and size, capacity and functional reliability:

Not in any particular order:
Springfield Armory XDM line
Canik TP9
SIG 365
HK VP9
FN509
Walther PPQ
CZ P10C

Probably another dozen or more guns that fit your parameters, but that's a good start.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Last issue I have with Glocks concerns safety.

When disassembling a Glock for cleaning/maintenance, you are required to press the trigger before pulling down on the take-down tabs on either side of the frame. Most Glock NGs (negligent discharges) occur during disassembly, because someone forgets to double check that the chamber is actually empty. They press the trigger as they're expected to on a live round while sitting at their desk at home, and BANG the gun fires a round when you weren't expecting it to.

M&Ps have a tab inside the breech that you flip down, allowing you to take down the weapon without having to press the trigger. I like that.

Again, this may or may not be an issue for you, that's your preference. I don't like it, so it was just another reason for me to buy a S&W M&P.

Other handguns that fit your budget, are similar and size, capacity and functional reliability:

Not in any particular order:
Springfield Armory XDM line
Canik TP9
SIG 365
HK VP9
FN509
Walther PPQ
CZ P10C

Probably another dozen or more guns that fit your parameters, but that's a good start.

Funny, the main thing I didn't like about the M&P was that little tab. Of course, I'm not a fan of the Glock breakdown, either. I remember when I got my first one back before the days of YouTube I really struggled with pulling the release things while holding the slide just right. Of course it's not an issue for me now, but I remember how off-putting it was when I was a n00b.

Still, I think the trigger pull thing is a non-issue. The first thing anybody should do when disassembling a weapon is to clear it. That's not the gun's fault.

As far as the negligent discharge thing goes, I've had one before, and it wasn't the gun's fault, it was mine and mine alone.

[ljmhawk]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Last issue I have with Glocks concerns safety.

When disassembling a Glock for cleaning/maintenance, you are required to press the trigger before pulling down on the take-down tabs on either side of the frame. Most Glock NGs (negligent discharges) occur during disassembly, because someone forgets to double check that the chamber is actually empty. They press the trigger as they're expected to on a live round while sitting at their desk at home, and BANG the gun fires a round when you weren't expecting it to.

M&Ps have a tab inside the breech that you flip down, allowing you to take down the weapon without having to press the trigger. I like that.

Again, this may or may not be an issue for you, that's your preference. I don't like it, so it was just another reason for me to buy a S&W M&P.

Other handguns that fit your budget, are similar and size, capacity and functional reliability:

Not in any particular order:
Springfield Armory XDM line
Canik TP9
SIG 365
HK VP9
FN509
Walther PPQ
CZ P10C

Probably another dozen or more guns that fit your parameters, but that's a good start.

the M&P 2.0 can also be disassembled by engaging the takedown lever and then pulling trigger to release that tab and then the slide comes off. much quicker then using that lever inside the gun.

[tatorhog]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Last issue I have with Glocks concerns safety.

When disassembling a Glock for cleaning/maintenance, you are required to press the trigger before pulling down on the take-down tabs on either side of the frame. Most Glock NGs (negligent discharges) occur during disassembly, because someone forgets to double check that the chamber is actually empty. They press the trigger as they're expected to on a live round while sitting at their desk at home, and BANG the gun fires a round when you weren't expecting it to.

M&Ps have a tab inside the breech that you flip down, allowing you to take down the weapon without having to press the trigger. I like that.

Again, this may or may not be an issue for you, that's your preference. I don't like it, so it was just another reason for me to buy a S&W M&P.

Other handguns that fit your budget, are similar and size, capacity and functional reliability:

Not in any particular order:
Springfield Armory XDM line
Canik TP9
SIG 365
HK VP9
FN509
Walther PPQ
CZ P10C

Probably another dozen or more guns that fit your parameters, but that's a good start.

I can only speak to personal preference, but I like my XDm a lot better than I did my shield. The shield functioned fine, but it didn't fit my hand as well, and was harder for me to get on target with. But I will also say I've shot sig and HK, and love both. Don't have experience with the rest on the list, but it seems like a very solid list.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tatorhog

I can only speak to personal preference, but I like my XDm a lot better than I did my shield. The shield functioned fine, but it didn't fit my hand as well, and was harder for me to get on target with. But I will also say I've shot sig and HK, and love both. Don't have experience with the rest on the list, but it seems like a very solid list.

I don't think he's looking for anything as small as a Shield, or any sub-compact. He appears to be looking for something like a full-size or a compact (1911 Commander/Glock 19; something with a 4 inch barrel).

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Got one of those next to the night stand

The pistol grip for a pump shotty makes a huge difference. Consider a pump handle as well.

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by Otter

The pistol grip for a pump shotty makes a huge difference. Consider a pump handle as well.

I've got a mossberg Turkey gun all tacticool like that, I'd like to return it to stock. It will chamber 3 1/2 shells, those will sting ya.