*****The Skyy Moore Thread*****

[Dante84]

More to come!

Skyy Moore: 91.8 PFF Grade last season

�� 1st among all WRs in College Football

Patrick Mahomes has a new weapon �� pic.twitter.com/wtqsxNh0LR

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) April 30, 2022

Patrick Mahomes is going to have a lot of fun throwing to Skyy Moore. Wins right off the line with great hands. Lots of smiles in Kansas City.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) April 30, 2022

New Chiefs (!!) WR Skyy Moore in #ReceptionPerception:

- Ranked 2nd among charted prospects in success rate vs. man (75%) and press coverage (75.7%)
- Led all prospects in success rate vs. zone coverage (88.1%)
- He can play inside and outsidehttps://t.co/HbifB61JlJ pic.twitter.com/HYsV8rlAzF

— Matt Harmon (@MattHarmon_BYB) April 30, 2022

With the 54th Pick in the 2022 NFL Draft the @chiefs Select @skyymoore24 ��⚪️ @NFLDraft @NFL @nflnetwork @WMU_Football @espn @SportsCenter @210ths pic.twitter.com/WOPtw9M5FP

— Prospect Media (@prospectmedia_) April 30, 2022

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by dtrain

Who knows if he was or wasn’t where he was supposed to be? I heard on 810 today or yesterday he has zero drops if he is not running routes right that is what coaches are for.

Andy has faulted him for two of Patrick's interceptions in postgames this season for drifting a couple yards from where he was supposed to be. Twitter film folks have also argued he caused a third.

Coaches can drill you extensively in practice, but at the end of the day it's on the player to be where he needs to be. Giving short fields to opposing offenses simply can not happen in the postseason.

[dtrain]

Sky is no different than the rooks on D mistakes will be made and they will grow see how far the rooms on D have come with playing time.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by dtrain

Sky is no different than the rooks on D mistakes will be made and they will grow see how far the rooms on D have come with playing time.

This is a different deal. We don't have any other options on defense, we have to play the rooks.

On offense, passes to Moore can go to JJSS, Travis, Pacheco, MVS, Gray, or Patrick can screw around and Jordan his was to a 10 yard run. The defense does not have this flexibility nor latitude.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by dtrain

Who knows if he was or wasn’t where he was supposed to be? I heard on 810 today or yesterday he has zero drops if he is not running routes right that is what coaches are for.

I'm sure the coaches see him round off a route or give up on a play and just throw their hands up without saying a word to him.

Probably aaaaaalll the coaching staff's fault.

I'm sure you're right that he has zero drops. I don't think anyone's questioned his hands (at least when it comes to receiving passes rather than punts).

Then again, Travis Kelce is tied for the league lead in drops so I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably not all that demonstrative a statistic.

Sure, Justin Watson has 4 drops to zero from Moore on the same number of targets - Moore clearly has much better hands than Watson. Then again, Pat has a 97.5 passer rating when throwing to Watson and a 51.3 passer rating when throwing to Moore. You think maybe being where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there has something to do with that wide discrepancy?

Both in terms of outcomes AND reps?

Y'all keep acting like it's some mystery why Moore isn't seeing the field and the answer's just right there in front of you. When a guy like Toney gets in here with limited experience and reps in this offense and PM puts up a 140 passer rating throwing him the football, it proably shouldn't surprise you that he's getting more involvement in the offense than the guy who's struggling to hit 1/3 of that mark. And when you're sitting there scratching your head over snap counts, it's probably worth noting that Watson's popping off double what Moore is in that regard.

Fellas - it ain't the mystery you think it is. And the answer is not 'just give him reps'. He has to earn them. Thus far the coaching staff clearly doesn't think he has.

[dtrain]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

This is a different deal. We don't have any other options on defense, we have to play the rooks.

On offense, passes to Moore can go to JJSS, Travis, Pacheco, MVS, Gray, or Patrick can screw around and Jordan his was to a 10 yard run. The defense does not have this flexibility nor latitude.

They have all improved due to playing time. Look at Karlaftis people were calling him a bust is it 4.5 sacks in last 4 or 5 games?

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by dtrain

They have all improved due to playing time. Look at Karlaftis people were calling him a bust is it 4.5 sacks in last 4 or 5 games?

I love George, been a defender of his since he was making pressures and not quite sealing the deal. I think if he's a 7 sack guy he's a fantastic staple on the defense and a guy everyone would love to have on D (even loaded teams like the 2019 49ers).

But again, on defense we literally have no other option. There is no Melvin Ingram or Suggs to come in and take snaps from him. We have to play George. It is a sink or swim situation.

We do not have to play Skyy on offense. We have the #1 offense without him. If he takes away from the #1 offense, then he's simply not going to be getting snaps.

[dtrain]

If he got game reps and coaching like I'm sure the ones on D are getting he would be much farther along. These last two games he needs to play because he will be needed in the playoffs.

[BossChief]

I thought he would be a bigger part of the offense by now, even as a rookie. I think DJ is spot on with that eval on him. I talked about it a few weeks back, for Pat to trust him, he needs to be precisely where he is supposed to be exactly when he’s supposed to be there because the offense is based largely on timing. Pat throws with incredible anticipation (even to the extent of many no look passes) so that skill is even more important/vital. Once Pat trusts him to do that, his targets will go up quickly. The offense needs a guy that can offset the OTs by getting open right away and Dkyy is built for that role. Catch and run. Catch and run. Quick bangers that can go for scores with 1-2 blocks.

You could see the frustration from Pat on the pick plays when Skyy was at incorrect depth for the route. It’s disappointing that he hasn’t taken this opportunity and ran with it. Hardman being out should have provided him with ample opportunity to increase his role in the offense and he had a promising game against LA and then disappeared again.

Now would be the perfect time for him to breakout, though.

The fact his snaps and targets haven’t gone up is because he hasn’t demonstrated to the coaches or Pat that he deserves additional space in the offense. In short, they don’t trust him with more at this point.

[NJChiefsFan]

I'm pretty patient and still have high hopes for Sky. I originally wasn't even too determined to see results this season in terms of stats.

I do think however there is a little reason to be disappointed right now. Between Watson, Reid's comments on Sky during the picks, and Toney coming in here and hitting the ground running, there is some evidence that despite being a rookie, there was a void to fill that he could have taken hold of. We could have and still can use the help. We shall see.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm sure the coaches see him round off a route or give up on a play and just throw their hands up without saying a word to him.

Probably aaaaaalll the coaching staff's fault.

I'm sure you're right that he has zero drops. I don't think anyone's questioned his hands (at least when it comes to receiving passes rather than punts).

Then again, Travis Kelce is tied for the league lead in drops so I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably not all that demonstrative a statistic.

Sure, Justin Watson has 4 drops to zero from Moore on the same number of targets - Moore clearly has much better hands than Watson. Then again, Pat has a 97.5 passer rating when throwing to Watson and a 51.3 passer rating when throwing to Moore. You think maybe being where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there has something to do with that wide discrepancy?

Both in terms of outcomes AND reps?

Y'all keep acting like it's some mystery why Moore isn't seeing the field and the answer's just right there in front of you. When a guy like Toney gets in here with limited experience and reps in this offense and PM puts up a 140 passer rating throwing him the football, it proably shouldn't surprise you that he's getting more involvement in the offense than the guy who's struggling to hit 1/3 of that mark. And when you're sitting there scratching your head over snap counts, it's probably worth noting that Watson's popping off double what Moore is in that regard.

Fellas - it ain't the mystery you think it is. And the answer is not 'just give him reps'. He has to earn them. Thus far the coaching staff clearly doesn't think he has.

Perhaps the reason Mahomes' passer rating is higher with Watson is because his targets are limited to the fraction he doesn't have a DB glued to his hip. Guy has 100 more snaps for heaven's sake, I could just as well ask why Mahomes doesn't target him more if he's "where he's supposed to be so often".

I get some people are "intrigued" by Watson but there's no mystery as to why he went 5th RD or whatever in the draft and Moore went late 2nd and it isn't cause Veach reached 2 rounds. It's because Moore is both a better athlete and a better football player.

You could be right about him not getting his routes right but that's much harder to discern with any confidence than old stone hands Watson dropping clangers.

They obviously like Watson's blocking because last gane he had more snaps than MVS. I'm no fan of MVS but is Watson a more reliable route runner? Doubt it. Anyway, get your point Watson is a low bar but that's really the frustration. Perhaps a lot of this is on Moore but I really don't get Watson getting 400 snaps to be surgically stitched to DBs minus one play against the corpse of JC Jackson and a collection of drops

[Chris Meck]

Hey, you remember all of the times that Mahomes has looked frustrated with Hardman? The times when he gave up on routes, or ran them incorrectly, and Mahomes is gesturing to him after the play, and shaking his head?

It's like that.

Now, Hardman and Toney MOSTLY are getting designed touches; manufactured, specific plays to get them the ball out on the perimeter. Your jet sweeps, your WR screens-that kind of stuff. Those things are kind of separate from the 'regular' offense. They're special plays. Those things don't really have post-snap reads, because they're quick hitters.

It's the same thing we did with Hill early on. Get it to the freaky fast guy as quick as you can in space.

Toney's not as straight line fast, but his quickness, acceleration, and body control is something else, man. He might be faster than Hardman in the first five yards, and certainly is in his change of direction.

Now, I'm not saying that Moore is going to be a hall-of-famer or anything, but what I am saying is that these comparisons to Hardman or Toney are apples and oranges. He's not the same type of player at all. Moore is a guy that will need to run the routes to get the targets. And again for anyone that's missed it- there are pre-snap reads, and post snap reads, and reading the defensive reaction while you're running down the field and adjusting your route constantly on the fly so you have to be seeing and adjusting exactly as Patrick is seeing it also.

It's complicated, and for a rookie who's also learning how to play in the NFL overall, it was always a tall order to expect him to put up numbers with four veteran NFL players in front of him with varied skillsets.

I've seen the hands. I've seen the quickness. I've seen some physical toughness. He is, by all accounts, a hard worker and a high effort guy. He's going to be fine, it's just going to take a little bit. Yes, it would've gone faster had he played more snaps, but it would've been more like what Green Bay has gone through with Christian Watson this season only instead of drops it would've been just flat being in the wrong place a whole lot.

And with Juju, MVS, Watson, Hardman, and now Toney (the last two taking a lot of the manufactured touches) he's just had a tough time getting on the field.

Realistically, that was always going to be the case-and that's why they tried to make him a punt returner; to get him snaps and get used to NFL game speed. That didn't go so well, but I understand why they tried it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Hey, you remember all of the times that Mahomes has looked frustrated with Hardman? The times when he gave up on routes, or ran them incorrectly, and Mahomes is gesturing to him after the play, and shaking his head?

It's like that.

Now, Hardman and Toney MOSTLY are getting designed touches; manufactured, specific plays to get them the ball out on the perimeter. Your jet sweeps, your WR screens-that kind of stuff. Those things are kind of separate from the 'regular' offense. They're special plays. Those things don't really have post-snap reads, because they're quick hitters.

It's the same thing we did with Hill early on. Get it to the freaky fast guy as quick as you can in space.

Toney's not as straight line fast, but his quickness, acceleration, and body control is something else, man. He might be faster than Hardman in the first five yards, and certainly is in his change of direction.

Now, I'm not saying that Moore is going to be a hall-of-famer or anything, but what I am saying is that these comparisons to Hardman or Toney are apples and oranges. He's not the same type of player at all. Moore is a guy that will need to run the routes to get the targets. And again for anyone that's missed it- there are pre-snap reads, and post snap reads, and reading the defensive reaction while you're running down the field and adjusting your route constantly on the fly so you have to be seeing and adjusting exactly as Patrick is seeing it also.

It's complicated, and for a rookie who's also learning how to play in the NFL overall, it was always a tall order to expect him to put up numbers with four veteran NFL players in front of him with varied skillsets.

I've seen the hands. I've seen the quickness. I've seen some physical toughness. He is, by all accounts, a hard worker and a high effort guy. He's going to be fine, it's just going to take a little bit. Yes, it would've gone faster had he played more snaps, but it would've been more like what Green Bay has gone through with Christian Watson this season only instead of drops it would've been just flat being in the wrong place a whole lot.

And with Juju, MVS, Watson, Hardman, and now Toney (the last two taking a lot of the manufactured touches) he's just had a tough time getting on the field.

Realistically, that was always going to be the case-and that's why they tried to make him a punt returner; to get him snaps and get used to NFL game speed. That didn't go so well, but I understand why they tried it.

I agree

I think everyone who has an issue with him doesn't even disagree here. Some said this from the beginning and were chastised because "he'll have immediate impact etc".

IMO, the biggest issue is taking 2nd rounders like this and then them not getting PT. You only have them for 4 years, so you're losing a cheap year there. Look at Bolton and Creed etc.

Obviously they were more pro ready, which happens. I'm just not a big fan of taking guys that early that aren't really pro ready.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

I agree

I think everyone who has an issue with him doesn't even disagree here. Some said this from the beginning and were chastised because "he'll have immediate impact etc".

IMO, the biggest issue is taking 2nd rounders like this and then them not getting PT. You only have them for 4 years, so you're losing a cheap year there. Look at Bolton and Creed etc.

Obviously they were more pro ready, which happens. I'm just not a big fan of taking guys that early that aren't really pro ready.

If 2nd rounders were day one difference makers, they'd be first rounders

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Hey, you remember all of the times that Mahomes has looked frustrated with Hardman? The times when he gave up on routes, or ran them incorrectly, and Mahomes is gesturing to him after the play, and shaking his head?

It's like that.

Now, Hardman and Toney MOSTLY are getting designed touches; manufactured, specific plays to get them the ball out on the perimeter. Your jet sweeps, your WR screens-that kind of stuff. Those things are kind of separate from the 'regular' offense. They're special plays. Those things don't really have post-snap reads, because they're quick hitters.

It's the same thing we did with Hill early on. Get it to the freaky fast guy as quick as you can in space.

Toney's not as straight line fast, but his quickness, acceleration, and body control is something else, man. He might be faster than Hardman in the first five yards, and certainly is in his change of direction.
...
Realistically, that was always going to be the case-and that's why they tried to make him a punt returner; to get him snaps and get used to NFL game speed. That didn't go so well, but I understand why they tried it.

I don't disagree with any of this.

It's why I LOVED Pacheco on kick returns - get him out there with the ball in his hands while he's learning to play at this level.

But Pacheco, in his limited offensive snaps, earned MORE snaps. And then when there was an injury that cracked the door wider for him, he kicked the damn thing open.

Moore has had those opportunities as well; we've had plenty of injuries at WR. And unlike Pacheco, Moore simply didn't force the issue. And if rookies don't force their way onto the field when given an opportunity, they just don't get the reps.

And yes, Toney's plays have been similar to some of the plays we've seen designed for Moore - Toney's just done more with them. The jet action pitch pass TD he scored on was a great example - Moore has had a couple similar opportunities and just didn't do the same thing with them. And Reid said earlier in the season that they were trying to build packages/plays to get Moore the ball more - then they just didn't go anywhere.

Is it because Reid is some idiot rube? Of course not - it's because Moore just wasn't demonstrating (presumptively in practice) that he had the tools to do the kind of damage that Toney and Hardman have done with them. Which again, gets back to my original complaints here - you have a raw WR w/ an average tool set and thus maybe he shouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round.

I think Moore's going to have to develop into an extremely reliable slot weapon; someone who can get tough yards in tight spaces by simply being in the right place at the right time and using those hands (which really do seem exceptional) to pull in tight, high risk passes. Because he doesn't have the explosion of guys like Toney or Hardman. His athletic profile is actually far more similar to Justin Watson than it is those guys.

And ultimately if he develops into that player, that's really valuable. It just seems unlikely that it's happening this year. And they're not gonna risk it in the post-season where one of those times that he doesn't get proper depth in his route or reads the defense wrong yields a turnover that sends us to the golf course.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If 2nd rounders were day one difference makers, they'd be first rounders

I've said for years that I think 2nd rounders are one of 2 types typically.

1) High ceiling guys with 1st round skills but warts that make them high risk and unlikely to contribute in year 1 (i.e. a guy like Pickens or Williams) or guys who could flame out entirely.

2) Lower ceiling guys who can play right away (Morse was always my prime example of that sort of player). Sometimes this is guys like Thornhill who may not be low ceiling for the position they play, but they play less impactful position and can play them immediately. Bolton and Creed qualify in that regard. Cook arguably does.

My issue here has always been that I don't see Moore as being either of these. He's not high ceiling nor is he a turnkey contributor with a lower ceiling. He's a 3rd round talent - raw and with a maybe slightly above average ceiling. I think a fair comparison here is Leo Chenal and if you make that comp, your strongest argument for taking him in the 2nd is his positional value. But I also think Chenal has demonstrated that he's more game-ready and frankly, in relation to his position, I think his ceiling is higher than Moore's. So balancing those views out, I think Moore is again more of a 3rd round player; a fringe top 100 guy rather than fringe top 50 guy.