Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect

[RunKC]

I don’t care. If there’s a LT in this draft that they feel can be a good quality LT, do it.

I don’t care if it would cost three 1st rd picks. Mahomes is not gonna be this athletic for much longer.

It needs to happen

[Warpaint69]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Nah I still prefer a DL. Just not discounting that Henderson could be an option if we get stuck in no man’s land again and the board is total shit.

I do think we are taking one on day 2. Probably 3rd rd at 66

I think being in no mans land is likely unless there's a QB hanging around teams want to trade up for.

[O.city]

No one trading up for a shitbird QB this year.

Don't think of being in no mans land. If that's the case, trade up for someone you like.

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Originally Posted by RunKC

The Chiefs had the worst LT and RB’s in the entire league. They also had total shit outside of Worthy at WR most of the season due to injuries.

Which makes it even more amazing they somehow managed to get the SB yet again despite all odds being against them, and it's the second time they've done it in such a situation. Just goes to show how amazing Reid, Pat and Spags are, but as you said, it needs to stop. We can't keep expecting them to win outmanned. Veach needed to step up his game even more, and he definitely did so.

I can't even fathom how amazing we could look this season if Moore is even just OBJ level at LT, we take a back in the first few rounds and Rice comes back at even 80%. Even before the draft, this offense has more potential than it has in years.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Mahomes was really bad the first 6 weeks, then seemed to be closer to normal with a 20 TD to 3 INT ratio the last 10 games leading the league in 3rd down offense and having 7 game winning drives.

I think the offensive problems in general just really compounded in a horrible way. Hollywood gets hurt in preseason, Pacheco breaks his leg in week 2, Kingsley gets Mahomes killed in week 2, Rashee goes on IR in the beginning of week 4, Worthy forced to be the guy when he’s not ready.

We legitimately had Alligator Boy starting for us, Watson as WR1 for a month and Mahomes ADOT was terrible bc the staff clearly didn’t trust Wanya to do the job.

Really need to get a RB and WR with playmaking ability to help Mahomes bc Hollywood’s history says he will be hurt again, Rashee will most likely be suspended again and we can’t be overconfident that Rashee will be that guy again quickly off this injury.

Pass rush and weapons. Hope that’s the priority early in the draft

Basically what I said yesterday. We need defensive lineman, DBs, and explosion on offense.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

Which makes it even more amazing they somehow managed to get the SB yet again despite all odds being against them, and it's the second time they've done it in such a situation. Just goes to show how amazing Reid, Pat and Spags are, but as you said, it needs to stop. We can't keep expecting them to win outmanned. Veach needed to step up his game even more, and he definitely did so.

I can't even fathom how amazing we could look this season if Moore is even just OBJ level at LT, we take a back in the first few rounds and Rice comes back at even 80%. Even before the draft, this offense has more potential than it has in years.

Winning begets winning.

The Chiefs won last year because they kinda assumed they would. It's what they always did.

So when crunch time came, in a league built for parity, they didn't puke on their shoes.

And had they managed ANYTHING offensively in the 1st half of the SB, I think they could've done that again. They were just so damn bad that they never gave the 'championship pedigree' a chance to save the day again.

I still maintain that there's not one roster decision that would've changed that outcome. Probably not 2. Put a healthy Trent Williams at LT and I don't think that fixes it. Put Tyreek Hill at WR and I don't think it fixes it.

We just got ****ing whipped. Everywhere.

They came out firing and we didn't. Hard to know/explain why. On that day, the Eagles were a damn buzzsaw and that happens from time to time. I look at that Seahawks Super Bowl over the Broncos back around 2013. If that game gets played 10 times, I think you see a 6-4 split in Seattles favor and I think 8 of those games are 1, 2 score games tops. Play that game 25 times and I don't think you get another 35 point ass-kicking.

That day the Seahawks just came out and absolutely took it to the Broncos. They weren't that much better than Denver. Denver didn't have any single fatal flaw that killed them or any specific roster change that could've been made to have saved the day.

They just got their asses kicked. It happens sometimes. Statistically the best offense in football history couldn't find it's ass with a flashlight and a map. They just didn't have it.

Burn the tapes and move forward.

[kcbubb]

Really good point here with DE. Im also curious to see if BJ Thompson has put on weight and developed at all. BJ seemed like a freak with long arms and athleticism. If they like him at all, it would be neat to see him in pass rushing situations, especially in the preseason. There aren’t a lot of snaps available for edge rushers. I agree with RunKC, and don’t see us taking an edge early.

We also signed Kriston Fulton as a CB and he’s a bit of a project but a former 1st round pick. Plus we got mcduffie, Watson, Williams and Nazeeh made a bunch of mistakes last year but he has talent. Could we take a CB early, yes but it’s definitely not a need, IMHO.

I agree that the DTs present the most appeal but the top tier might be gone but this is a deep draft. And we normally line up a fattie next to Chris Jones and those can be found later. We are really seeking to replace tershawn whartons production and we don’t need to use a first round pick for that. But if one of the top tier guys falls, I can definitely understand taking one of those guys.

Talented RBs can be found later that fit and compliment our current cast of RBs.

For these reasons, I circle back to offensive line. LT is a position of need and value. I think it’s a good year to take the risk on a LT. The value and need line up well with availability, IMO, with conerly and simmons(if he checks out).

Originally Posted by RunKC

The top 3 DT’s are still my favorite. Nolen, Harmon and Grant. Just can’t see them passing on em. They’re too good and those guys usually don’t fall that far in a regular draft.

Not sure they would take a DE first rd with the depth of this class that is loaded with solid Spags prototypes. Felix was on the Kay Adams show and floated that the Chiefs expect a jump from him this year, so him, Karlaftis, Omenihu and Spags favorite Danna don’t leave many snaps for a first rd DE. Even so, is there a sizable disparity between Scourton and a DE you could get at 63? I’m not so sure there is.

In this scenario a LT like Conerly or RB like Henderson starts to become an option IMO

[xztop123]

Originally Posted by O.city

No one trading up for a shitbird QB this year.

Don't think of being in no mans land. If that's the case, trade up for someone you like.

Depends on how the board falls. We could also trade down

What if we trade out of our pick and get Simmons at the top of the second round

[xztop123]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But he wasn't. And often when he was, it was because he was holding the ball too long.

I mean this has been litigated to death -- I'm disinclined to do it again. But the bottom line is that Chiefs fans are simply never satisfied with their OL play unless they're able to get those early 2000s Chiefs lines.

When you look at any number of pass rush win metrics, time to throw metrics, etc... PM had fairly average protection unless/until he held the ball longer than he should and/or dropped too far back or drifted into pressure.

I saw an interesting stat somewhere that showed that PM was 2nd in the entire NFL in pressures attributable to his decision-making (only Bo Nix was worse). He did things to make his life harder.

This is hilarious. Essentially we have concluded that we had average to poor offensive line play. Average to poor running back play. And now poor pocket awareness by our quarterback.

And almost went undefeated.

Somewhere in this mess of disaster must have been a guy holding the team up.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief

Which makes it even more amazing they somehow managed to get the SB yet again despite all odds being against them, and it's the second time they've done it in such a situation. Just goes to show how amazing Reid, Pat and Spags are, but as you said, it needs to stop. We can't keep expecting them to win outmanned. Veach needed to step up his game even more, and he definitely did so.

I can't even fathom how amazing we could look this season if Moore is even just OBJ level at LT, we take a back in the first few rounds and Rice comes back at even 80%. Even before the draft, this offense has more potential than it has in years.

The writing was on the wall all year on this offense. The Chiefs had no business winning the Broncos game the way they played. Toub literally save Andy. The Chiefs should have lost the Raiders game but a weak coach and weak QB made a horrible blunder.

Jaylon Moore will ultimately decide our season. If he’s marginal like Donovan Smith we can win the SB. But God help us if he’s not.

Mahomes started getting better when Hopkins played his first game. That can’t be a coincidence. The offense looked its best when Hollywood came back. That too cannot be ignored.

The Chiefs have sniffed around Isaiah Bond and Jaylin Lane. 2 guys similar to Hollywood that like Worthy can be explosive and get open. I think a guy like that is gonna be drafted as well as a RB.

[kcbubb]

You are right that they won’t be better as a day 1 starter but that’s why they could be available. Teams like for 1st round picks to contribute immediately. I’m happy to take a guy like Simmons, if he passes the medicals, and hope that he could compete to start by the playoffs. Simmons is more talented than Moore, easily. And you’re right, Conerly will probably take a year to beat out Moore but if Moore goes down, Conerly can handle the speed rush better than Moore right now. Conerly can move. He uses his hands well. Watch him against Abdul carter at penn state and you can tell he can be a long term LT. You’d have to help conerly with strong edge rushers, no doubt. But he can play and could be a long term solution.

As far as Kingsley, we have a hole at LG and a good G makes about $20M per year. That’s good value for a 3rd round pick. We need Kingsley to be successful at G.we are not out on Kingsley at LT. We are just reading what the chiefs brass appears to be signaling in that we need a LG and Kingsley played well against good competition at LG. So, we could use another offensive tackle for competition, depth and development. The question becomes, when do you take a LT prospect? Why not take a LT in the first and fill these other needs later? This LT class is not deep and the dline is deep. RB is deep. Taking a LT i. The first just fits when you look at the whole picture. We don’t need to reach for one but if they think that conerly or Simmons could be a long term answer and they are available around 25 and we can up 6 or 7 spots with some pick swaps and maybe give up a third with getting some later round picks back, I’d make the move. And we saw last year that LT projects like Mims (selected 18, bengals) and Fautanu (selected 20, Steelers) have demonstrated that project LTs with traits are worth a pick around 20. Mims and Fautana don’t even play that much. Those picks weren’t necessarily a big need for those teams but they took them bc of their value. That’s good positional value for us and we have a need. Having a potential LTOTF is that valuable to me and hopefully to the team. Hell, best case scenario is that both the LTOTF and Moore play well and we can trade Moore for picks next year.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

But make NO mistake-there is not a day one upgrade LT in this draft at all, more than likely and certainly not where we can reach them. There just isn't. Not Simmons, who may never play meaningful NFL football, not Conerly, who isn't strong enough to anchor but might be after a year. Not Ersery, or Grant, or either of the Texas guys, or Jackson who filled in pretty well for Simmons.

Just...no.

Now, you may feel like it's worth the risk to take the shot; and to that I say, why are you OUT on Kingsley then? Because next year at this time, you're going to be out on one of these kids, too.

I'm not saying we SHOULDN'T take the shot. I'm saying we need to realize what it is we'd actually be doing, and be okay with that.

[htismaqe]

Why take a LT early if he's just another project? You yourself said it's not a deep draft for tackles so why would we want to pick AGAINST the flow of the draft? There's going to be some quality interior d-linemen available. Much better players at their position than Conerly. Simmons just isn't realistic.

There's just no reason to hyperfocus on LT. Let the draft come to you, not the other way around.

[kcbubb]

Where would you have the chiefs draft an offensive tackle? I’m assuming you see that we need OT depth with Kingsley moving to guard. Or do you disagree and think we have plenty of depth on the oline?

I think the draft is going to come to us. Project LTs with traits might be available in the 20s. We’ve seen similar LT projects get taken in the 20s. It’s not a reach. Why would that be against the flow? Again, Mims was taken 18th last year and Fautana was take 20. Do you like those guys more than Simmons or conerly? I’m not saying to hyper focus on LT. I just think the draft could play out in our favor with a small move up.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Why take a LT early if he's just another project? You yourself said it's not a deep draft for tackles so why would we want to pick AGAINST the flow of the draft? There's going to be some quality interior d-linemen available. Much better players at their position than Conerly. Simmons just isn't realistic.

There's just no reason to hyperfocus on LT. Let the draft come to you, not the other way around.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Where would you have the chiefs draft an offensive tackle? I’m assuming you see that we need OT depth with Kingsley moving to guard. Or do you disagree and think we have plenty of depth on the oline?

I think the draft is going to come to us. Project LTs with traits might be available in the 20s. We’ve seen similar LT projects get taken in the 20s. It’s not a reach. Why would that be against the flow? Again, Mims was taken 18th last year and Fautana was take 20. Do you like those guys more than Simmons or conerly? I’m not saying to hyper focus on LT. I just think the draft could play out in our favor with a small move up.

I wouldn't target a tackle at all. If one drops and makes sense, take him. But I don't think they NEED another LT, especially not another backup. I personally don't buy that Kingsley is done at tackle.

Do you know what the hit rate is for tackles taken between 18-28? Hardly any of them even end up playing LT. A lot of them move to guard. The bulk of the rest never amount to shit.

If you're not picking too 15, you're taking a CHANCE on a tackle. Nothing more. There are so many places on this team that need upgrades. There will be plenty of guys that can contribute right away if they don't get tunnel vision about LT.

[htismaqe]

And part of the reason I'm against it is just a numbers game. The only realistic option is Conerly.

I wouldn't draft Simmons. That injury isn't one you just recover from and move on. It ruins careers.

[kcbubb]

Maybe we are saying the same thing? I just think that a left tackle drops to the mid twenties that’s good value. I’m not sure that any of the prospects at 31 make an immediate contribution, except maybe safety, CB, WR or RB. And those aren’t positions of dire need that we can fill later in the draft The elite DTs are probably gone by 31. The chiefs have positioned themselves to take BPA. But I think that the bpa with a small trade up could be a LT. I don’t think that’s desperate at all. And all picks at our range are a chance. Remember Robert gallery? He ended being a pretty good guard. All these picks are a chance and a bulk of them never make it. Look at FAU. You have to take some chances to eventually get a long term left tackle when you are picking late every year. Do you want the chiefs to rely on free agency for premium positions forever? If not, you’re going to have to take some chances.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I wouldn't target a tackle at all. If one drops and makes sense, take him. But I don't think they NEED another LT, especially not another backup. I personally don't buy that Kingsley is done at tackle.

Do you know what the hit rate is for tackles taken between 18-28? Hardly any of them even end up playing LT. A lot of them move to guard. The bulk of the rest never amount to shit.

If you're not picking too 15, you're taking a CHANCE on a tackle. Nothing more. There are so many places on this team that need upgrades. There will be plenty of guys that can contribute right away if they don't get tunnel vision about LT.