Investing megathread extravaganza

[DaFace]

A place to talk about investing stuff.

[TinyEvel]

I'm not going with the whole life. Its basically putting a big wad of money into an account for 18 years to have access to about that same amount of that money. Anything you pull out takes away from the balance of the account AND the death benefit. I'd rather manage my own investments and pay uncle sam 30% of a higher wad of investment gains.

What it came to, was once I started running scenarios of how/when I would want to use the money down the road, the perceived benefit went away. The insurance salesman (introduced to me as a financial advisor, lets be clear, he's a salesman first) didn't tell me details about how taking money out would deplete the asset AND the benefit. I was led to believe that there were three piles of money (long term care benefit, death benefit and cash value) when in fact they are all the same pile of money, and once you start to withdraw from any of them they all go down.

Whole life insurance investments are for people who've maxed out their 401 K, IRAs and other investments (real estate, rental property, etc) and want to leave their family money when they die that isn't taxed like estate tax.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Congratulations. This thread drew me into the Etrade hobby early in the year. I've invested only "extra" money like FFB winnings, dividends from other investments(bioD etc)....

So far, I'm only down about $750 on the year on whims I obtained by reading here.....GE looked like a good idea because it was down and I'd had reason to believe some industry relevant things were going to pay off for them....US steel, Silica and some other things when I thought the oil boom and Steel Tariffs were going to pay off.....

I'm learning though, and I cashed out a couple of shitters and took a shot at a couple of hemp stocks.

someday, I'll cash out a roll.

I apologize if I said anything that made you want to buy GE.

[lewdog]

GE is a turd. I told you guys that many times here. Just because a stock is cheap, does not mean it's worth owning.


I've been using this volatility to make a bit of money. Bought and traded out of Goldman Sachs earlier this month for a quick few hundred dollar profit. It since has declined 15%. They really have some shady business practices.

My current buy and trade is using UPS, which should post a strong 4th quarter this year with a stock trading below ($110) it's projected value of $125 which should come by years end. If holding long-term it also provides a 3.3% dividend.

Apple has also recently taking a beating. Using past trends, it's always a good time to pick up Apple after a steep decline. Nothing wrong with owning a stock of a company with a huge cash pile and that people love. It's a great stock to swing trade or hold long term.

[lewdog]

Hold on to your asses boys. I think this gets worse.

[Maine]

Time for Trump to answer

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Stock Market went to shit just as soon as Clay got involved. Literally to the day!

[BigRichard]

I picked the wrong time to open a Roth IRA and drop 11,000 in there for me and my wife. Grrrr....

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by BigRichard

I picked the wrong time to open a Roth IRA and drop 11,000 in there for me and my wife. Grrrr....

Actually today might not be a bad time. It's off the all-time high quite a bit and you aren't looking to use ROTH money for years I'd guess.

[BigRichard]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Actually today might not be a bad time. It's off the all-time high quite a bit and you aren't looking to use ROTH money for years I'd guess.

I am saying I already did it. I did it maybe a month ago. Wasn't horrible since there had already been some huge drops but it could have been better. I can drop another $12,000 in there after the first of the year though.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Whole life insurance investments are for people who've maxed out their 401 K, IRAs and other investments (real estate, rental property, etc) and want to leave their family money when they die that isn't taxed like estate tax.

I think that's pretty fair. I've had whole life for like 18 years and I pay in every year like a good little lad but I still have no idea if it's really worked out well for me. At this point, the cash value is more than the amount I've paid in, so I'm "ahead" in that respect, but BECAUSE I DIDN'T DIE, I would've done much better by not having the policy at all and instead just investing it. MUCH better.

But if I had died, whatever, 15 years ago, my wife and young kids would've been ****ed, so that doesn't seem like an option.

At a point in your life where you have people depending on you, unless you're independently wealthy and your family could take the hit, you need to have life insurance. Now you need to decide term vs whole.

I do kinda like, now, that my policy could pay for itself and keep going indefinitely (dividends/interest equals the premium pretty much) and that whenever I do pass the entire cash value will be there plus the death benefit.

But was it worth missing out on 18 years of stock growth? Meh. Maybe. But again, only because I didn't croak.


If I had to do it all again, I probably would've gotten alot more term life and just suck up the fact that if I don't die it will have been "wasted" money, just like house and car insurance are for any given year where nothing bad happens.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I think that's pretty fair. I've had whole life for like 18 years and I pay in every year like a good little lad but I still have no idea if it's really worked out well for me. At this point, the cash value is more than the amount I've paid in, so I'm "ahead" in that respect, but BECAUSE I DIDN'T DIE, I would've done much better by not having the policy at all and instead just investing it. MUCH better.

But if I had died, whatever, 15 years ago, my wife and young kids would've been ****ed, so that doesn't seem like an option.

At a point in your life where you have people depending on you, unless you're independently wealthy and your family could take the hit, you need to have life insurance. Now you need to decide term vs whole.

I do kinda like, now, that my policy could pay for itself and keep going indefinitely (dividends/interest equals the premium pretty much) and that whenever I do pass the entire cash value will be there plus the death benefit.

But was it worth missing out on 18 years of stock growth? Meh. Maybe. But again, only because I didn't croak.


If I had to do it all again, I probably would've gotten alot more term life and just suck up the fact that if I don't die it will have been "wasted" money, just like house and car insurance are for any given year where nothing bad happens.

I have a 25-year term life policy, whatever that means. I think it expires at some point, and I'm trying to talk the wife into not having life insurance after that. We have no kids and our house is paid off, and by the time we need to buy insurance again we'll be close to retirement. We can cover funeral costs and that sort of thing, so I'd rather save the relatively large cost of buying life insurance for two retired people. I'm not sure she's buying into it yet, though.

[lewdog]

I bought a 30 year Term life insurance policy in my mid 20’s. It expires when I’m 56. Worth $1M and I pay $70/month. After that I should have enough saved for my family if I die. You shouldn’t buy full life insurance if you can plan for the future, that’s why term life insurance is recommended for younger people. Term is a stop gap until you build to that point and it’s cheap for large coverage.

Rainman, I’d say you’re right on with your recommendation.

[Great Expectations]

Originally Posted by lewdog

I bought a 30 year Term life insurance policy in my mid 20’s. It expires when I’m 56. Worth $1M and I pay $70/month. After that I should have enough saved for my family if I die. You shouldn’t buy full life insurance if you can plan for the future, that’s why term life insurance is recommended for younger people. Term is a stop gap until you build to that point and it’s cheap for large coverage.

Rainman, I’d say you’re right on with your recommendation.

This is definitely the smartes way to do it; now you just need a trust to help with potential future tax liabilities.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by Great Expectations

This is definitely the smartes way to do it; now you just need a trust to help with potential future tax liabilities.

Yes, getting one in place for our assets next year. Can get lawyer services from work for $20/month and it includes trust and will writing. Already have living Will but do need the trust.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I have a 25-year term life policy, whatever that means. I think it expires at some point, and I'm trying to talk the wife into not having life insurance after that. We have no kids and our house is paid off, and by the time we need to buy insurance again we'll be close to retirement. We can cover funeral costs and that sort of thing, so I'd rather save the relatively large cost of buying life insurance for two retired people. I'm not sure she's buying into it yet, though.

So term vs whole is pretty easy. Term life you can think of just like car insurance. The years (in your case 25) means that the price you pay per year is flat. Each year you pay X, and you get Y as a death benefit if you die during the term. If you don't die during the term, congratulations, you get NOTHING for paying in all those years. The upside is that it's MUCH cheaper than whole life.

I can think of no sane reason whatsoever why someone in your shoes would pay for term life insurance once your current policies lapse. Honestly, I don't know why you're paying for it now. It's kinda simple to me -- if the survivor does not need the money from life insurance if the spouse dies, then what are you "insuring".

I deal with this in my professional life in many different ways, but insurance literally protects against risk. It's what the freaking word MEANS. What risk are you protecting against by paying this money? If there is no risk that matters, why would you waste money protecting against it "just in case"?

If she thinks of it that way, rather than as something you have to have, like car insurance, then that may help her realize she doesn't need it at all. She can live and retire comfortably without it even you do pass away.

Also, the premiums are going to be hella high once you come off that flat rate policy you're on now.