Open Carry

[HemiEd]

My last two trips to our little town of Branson West resulted in seeing private citizens with a pistol holstered.

I was right behind one in line at the bank and the other one came in to shoot the shit with the barber cutting my hair. The only thing holding the second guys gun in the holster was gravity, no strap.

I am pro gun and all for peoples rights, but why? Why does someone feel they need to be packing heat while running errands?

It makes me pretty uncomfortable to say the least. Is this person stable enough to packing heat? Is he or she sober? Are they worried about a jealous lover or spouse gunning them down? Is there going to be a shootout?

What is your opinion? Are we all going to have to be packing soon? Are we going to regress to 200 years ago, like the wild west?

Who vetted this person to have this weapon in public?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Lzen

I also find it weird that you had to wait 2 days. By 2014 I would have thought that it should have been an instant background check.

It just depends on how quickly the feds approve the transfer/sale. Most of the time it only takes a few seconds, but sometimes (in my experience working at a gun shop, about 20% of the time or less) the response is delayed, for reasons known only to the feds. Normally it was just a day or two. There didn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Good video, thanks. He has a lot of good points in my novice opinion.
I agree with him on the holster and retention strap for the gun, but early in the thread this post:


The second guy I mentioned in my OP, had what looked similar to a holster I had as an 8 year old kid, leather with the gun not very stable at all, parading around in the barber shop to get attention.

I keep mine in this holster that was actually made for it.

I understand. But how fast could you get that unstrapped is the question. It is similar to the question of whether to carry with a round in the chamber.

Personally, I much prefer conceal carry. And I have a round in the chamber.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Frazod

It just depends on how quickly the feds approve the transfer/sale. Most of the time it only takes a few seconds, but sometimes (in my experience working at a gun shop, about 20% of the time or less) the response is delayed, for reasons known only to the feds. Normally it was just a day or two. There didn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to it.

That makes sense. I had just moved to Missouri from Illinois that month and decided I wanted an updated home defense pistol. That might have been the reason it took two days.

Originally Posted by Lzen

I understand. But how fast could you get that unstrapped is the question. It is similar to the question of whether to carry with a round in the chamber.

Personally, I much prefer conceal carry. And I have a round in the chamber.

It just takes a flick of the thumb when reaching for it.

[PAChiefsGuy]

It doesn't bother me. if it helps someone feel like they are tougher or that less people will mess with them (the latter is obviously very true) then go for it.

The most important aspect to me with having or carrying a gun is to always be property trained. If you are not then it can lead to very bad results.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by Lzen

I understand. But how fast could you get that unstrapped is the question. It is similar to the question of whether to carry with a round in the chamber.

Personally, I much prefer conceal carry. And I have a round in the chamber.

There's a name for a carried firearm that has an empty chamber: a dead man's gun. If you carry, make sure that its ready to go. Massad Ayoob gives you the reasons:

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Lzen

I understand. But how fast could you get that unstrapped is the question. It is similar to the question of whether to carry with a round in the chamber.

Personally, I much prefer conceal carry. And I have a round in the chamber.

Absolutely. Also, I don't carry anything that has a manual safety. Unless you practice drawing enough that disengaging that safety becomes muscle memory, which almost nobody does, it's something you can easily forget when a BOOM CRISIS REACT OR YOU'RE DEAD situation pops up. These situations tend not to announce themselves, and often happen when you're ill-prepared, just woke up, etc. I don't want my last thought in life to be "oh ****, the safety's still on."

My infamous refrigerator incident happened after I was awakened from a dead sleep by burglar alarm. I was tired, freaked out, and had grabbed a revolver, which I foolishly cocked. It was afterward, when I realized it was a false alarm and had relaxed a bit, that I tried to uncock the revolver and my thumb slipped off the hammer while I had the trigger depressed. BOOM. Not a mistake I would have made under normal circumstances. But these situations aren't normal, and odds are your reaction to them won't be optimal. Again, you're not John Wick. So take that into account give yourself every advantage beforehand.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Absolutely. Also, I don't carry anything that has a manual safety. Unless you practice drawing enough that disengaging that safety becomes muscle memory, which almost nobody does, it's something you can easily forget when a BOOM CRISIS REACT OR YOU'RE DEAD situation pops up. These situations tend not to announce themselves, and often happen when you're ill-prepared, just woke up, etc. I don't want my last thought in life to be "oh ****, the safety's still on."

My infamous refrigerator incident happened after I was awakened from a dead sleep by burglar alarm. I was tired, freaked out, and had grabbed a revolver, which I foolishly cocked. It was afterward, when I realized it was a false alarm and had relaxed a bit, that I tried to uncock the revolver and my thumb slipped off the hammer while I had the trigger depressed. BOOM. Not a mistake I would have made under normal circumstances. But these situations aren't normal, and odds are your reaction to them won't be optimal. Again, you're not John Wick. So take that into account give yourself every advantage beforehand.

100%.


I used to carry almost exclusively 1911-type sidearms, for 15+ years? Practiced pushing my thumb over the safety to disengage it on the draw several 100,000 times. Never had an issue while practicing.

Then one day I was in a class where we had to run through some "real world" situations, basically being distracted by conversation/movement/etc., and then have to draw and hit targets. Twice I was caught a little distracted and forgot to disengage the safety, ending with a pair of trigger presses with the safety on. It was pretty embarrassing, considering how much time I'd spent practicing that.

On top of that, I've watched several dozen people do exactly the same thing during drills, as well as a like number of people that couldn't reliably flip off their thumb straps on the draw.

Considering how little the average person spends practicing that, or flipping a strap off a holster, I can't recommend that anyone carry a gun with a manual safety or a holster with a thumb strap.

The only time a Condition-2 type holsters (active rentetion) should be used is for LEOs, imo.


That said, I do consider a holster with some type of friction retention a must for everyone. Those ballistic nylon holsters or any other holster that fits the gun so loosely it could fall out via gravity should be a no-go for everyone.

[trndobrd]

I would differentiate between carrying a handgun with a manual safety, and carrying with manual safety engaged. Many guns (i.e. Baretta 92 and the like) have the option for DAO, DAO w/ safety, cocked w/ safety. I suppose Cocked w/o safety on for anyone who thinks that is a good idea.

Important to pick one carry method, status in the nightstand safe, stick with it and practice lots.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by trndobrd

I would differentiate between carrying a handgun with a manual safety, and carrying with manual safety engaged. Many guns (i.e. Baretta 92 and the like) have the option for DAO, DAO w/ safety, cocked w/ safety. I suppose Cocked w/o safety on for anyone who thinks that is a good idea.

Important to pick one carry method, status in the nightstand safe, stick with it and practice lots.

It's best to carry in double action mode without the safety engaged. The trigger pull is heavy and less likely for accidental discharge. That's how I prefer CZs.

If you want something easy and simple, there's also Glocks where you don't have to worry about manual safety.

[jdubya]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

That is the strangest thing I have ever read. Every agency I have worked with (I’m in my 3rd and longest tenure) required a quarterly qualification to meet state standards. That didn’t make them “marksmen” that could shoot a pistol out of someone’s hands but it definitely makes them
Proficient

I did not intend to step on toes. My post was purely anecdotal based on a few conversations. Its all good. Your posts on this have been spot on

[jdubya]

Its late and I haven't scrolled up on all the posts so I am sorry if this has been covered.......

As a 60 year old that is still pretty fit and can move OK.....When I carry, I am a ghost. What that means to me is that on the road, I will never cut you off, wave a finger at you, honk at you or shake a fist. I wont scream at you anywhere. If I am walking downtown you will never see me. I prefer to be invisible. I am the guy that wants NO confrontation. I am the most polite man on earth. Again....I am invisible........when I am carrying

[Bump]

I've been watching a lot of podcasts with Navy seals lately. Apparently they love the fanny packs so they can have extra ammo, tac lights and what not. So if you see a strong looking dude with a fanny pack, he's probably carrying.

[Garcia Bronco]

I carry with around in a chamber because what's the point. But it's also a 1911 45 and it's got a grip safety and a thumb safety and just the muscle memory that you don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to pull it. You do it slow... Then you get it smooth... Then it's fast.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

100%.


I used to carry almost exclusively 1911-type sidearms, for 15+ years? Practiced pushing my thumb over the safety to disengage it on the draw several 100,000 times. Never had an issue while practicing.

Then one day I was in a class where we had to run through some "real world" situations, basically being distracted by conversation/movement/etc., and then have to draw and hit targets. Twice I was caught a little distracted and forgot to disengage the safety, ending with a pair of trigger presses with the safety on. It was pretty embarrassing, considering how much time I'd spent practicing that.

On top of that, I've watched several dozen people do exactly the same thing during drills, as well as a like number of people that couldn't reliably flip off their thumb straps on the draw.

Considering how little the average person spends practicing that, or flipping a strap off a holster, I can't recommend that anyone carry a gun with a manual safety or a holster with a thumb strap.

The only time a Condition-2 type holsters (active rentetion) should be used is for LEOs, imo.


That said, I do consider a holster with some type of friction retention a must for everyone. Those ballistic nylon holsters or any other holster that fits the gun so loosely it could fall out via gravity should be a no-go for everyone.

Great post. I like Kydex. It has a snug hold but the firearm can be easily removed.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

I carry with around in a chamber because what's the point. But it's also a 1911 45 and it's got a grip safety and a thumb safety and just the muscle memory that you don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to pull it. You do it slow... Then you get it smooth... Then it's fast.

You carry it cocked and locked, correct? The safety is engaged?