Off Season Lets Talk Guns, Part 2

[HonestChieffan]

Been a while since we had a guns n' ammo discussion.


Some of you are AR shooters Im sure. Im looking at a Colt 6920. Will be my first AR. Picked up a Glock this fall and really enjoy shooting it. Any feedback on that weapon?



Anyone else been in a buy/sell/trade mood with hardware?

[Tombstone RJ]

Here's another great 1911 option, built by a former Delta Force operator:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/p...mt-arms-delta/

Brian Searcy spent 16 years in Delta, passing selection in 1991. When Brain arrived at Delta, the Unit used match grade 1911s that were built by “civilian technicians” that were then tweaked by Unit armorers. Because of the unique mission of Delta—hostage rescue, counter-terrorism, and aircraft assault/recover, the guns had to be 100% reliable. There were many low-profile missions, such as protective security details and surveillance where the 1911 was not only the operator’s primary weapon—it was their only weapon.

[Randallflagg]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Here's another great 1911 option, built by a former Delta Force operator:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/p...mt-arms-delta/

Brian Searcy spent 16 years in Delta, passing selection in 1991. When Brain arrived at Delta, the Unit used match grade 1911s that were built by “civilian technicians” that were then tweaked by Unit armorers. Because of the unique mission of Delta—hostage rescue, counter-terrorism, and aircraft assault/recover, the guns had to be 100% reliable. There were many low-profile missions, such as protective security details and surveillance where the 1911 was not only the operator’s primary weapon—it was their only weapon.

Beautiful pistol, no doubt. That price tag - at least for me, makes my 1911-A1 much more "desirable". $500 as opposed to $3,000. I mean, I look at it this way: In skirmishes where I had to use my 1911 - and there were probably 10-12 during Vietnam, for whatever reason, my trusty 1911 never failed me once.

The 9mm pistols - of which I own several (all Sigs - with the exception of my beloved P220) are in 9mm. Still, though, to this day, 9mm just doesn't "do it" for me. Cut my teeth on the .45...and I love them. John Moses Browning had his shit together when he brainstormed the .45 1911. Still does to this day!

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Randallflagg

Beautiful pistol, no doubt. That price tag - at least for me, makes my 1911-A1 much more "desirable". $500 as opposed to $3,000. I mean, I look at it this way: In skirmishes where I had to use my 1911 - and there were probably 10-12 during Vietnam, for whatever reason, my trusty 1911 never failed me once.

The 9mm pistols - of which I own several (all Sigs - with the exception of my beloved P220) are in 9mm. Still, though, to this day, 9mm just doesn't "do it" for me. Cut my teeth on the .45...and I love them. John Moses Browning had his shit together when he brainstormed the .45 1911. Still does to this day!

You can't go wrong with a .45 and the good thing is there's lots of .45 pistols out there to choose from. As for your basic 1911 platform pistol, you can go from inexpensive Rock Island Armory pistols all the way up to crazy expensive ($6k) 1911s and everything in between.

That Springfield Armory 1911 A1 is hard to pass up. I know other manufacturers make good 1911s for between $500 to $1000 like Smith & Wesson.

All I can say is stay away from Kimber. I've fired a Kimber 1911 and it was very disappointing. For the money you have to pay for a Kimber 1911, I say look elsewhere. But that's my only strong opinion on 1911s and I know some people swear by Kimber.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

I am looking to obtain my first gun for a carry permit. Any recommendations for an affordable yet efficient pistol?

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

I am looking to obtain my first gun for a carry permit. Any recommendations for an affordable yet efficient pistol?

Items you don't go bargain shopping:

Boots
Mattress
Camping Gear
Mechanic
Insurance
CCW

What caliber you looking to sling? Price range? Lot's of brights minds in here but need a little more info.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

I am looking to obtain my first gun for a carry permit. Any recommendations for an affordable yet efficient pistol?

Glock 19. 9mm (do NOT go any smaller than 9mm). Anytime you read an article pimping another polymer carry gun, they compare it to the Glock 19, and there's a reason for that. It is simple, reliable and affordable. Large magazine capacity despite it's size, which is perfect for concealed carry. The safety is built into the trigger, so you won't have to worry about forgetting to disengage it in the split second you have to react when somebody is trying to murder you. Easy to upgrade, easy to find holsters and accessories. Yeah, it ain't sexy. But that doesn't matter.

And yes, I am carrying one as I type this.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by Otter

Items you don't go bargain shopping:

Boots
Mattress
Camping Gear
Mechanic
Insurance
CCW

What caliber you looking to sling? Price range? Lot's of brights minds in here but need a little more info.

Oh, I am aware that a person shouldn't be a miser when it comes to guns. I just needed to set the parameters for recommendations.

Not an expert on calibers but something that packs a punch. Price range would be $300-500 dollars (however this price range is just an estimate in my mind. I am not up to date on the current gun prices.)

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Oh, I am aware that a person shouldn't be a miser when it comes to guns. I just needed to set the parameters for recommendations.

Not an expert on calibers but something that packs a punch. Price range would be $300-500 dollars (however this price range is just an estimate in my mind. I am not up to date on the current gun prices.)

I paid around $600 for the 19 I have now - it is a new Gen 5 with night sights. You can find older generations for around $500.

As far as guns in the $300-$500 range, there are various M&P models and Springfield XDs/XDms. I've owned these in the past and would recommend them. I hear good things about Walther Creeds, but have never shot one. You can get one for around $250. Rugers are okay. And I'm a big fan of CZs, and had my heart set on getting a CZ P10 C last year, but my gunsmith convinced me to get the Glock instead. Still, you can get a CZ P10 C from CDNN right now for $389. That's a good deal.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogse...q=cz%20p10%20c

Again, I strongly recommend that whatever you get does NOT have an external safety. You don't need one, and you don't want one. And nothing smaller than a 9mm. .380s just don't have enough stopping power.

I'd stay away from Taurus and absolutely stay away from Keltec. And if you get a ****ing Hi-point I'll never speak to you again.

And for a novice, stay away from 1911s. They are not beginner guns.

[Perineum Ripper]

That price range I would either do S&W M&P in a 9mm, or a Springfield XDm in a 9,40 or 45.

They will do everything you will need them to and do it reliably

['Hamas' Jenkins]

frazod,

Glock 26 or 34. Thoughts?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

frazod,

Glock 26 or 34. Thoughts?

I had a 26 once. While it was a good gun, the size was a bit small for me.

Had to look up the 34. Never seen or shot one.

[Randallflagg]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Oh, I am aware that a person shouldn't be a miser when it comes to guns. I just needed to set the parameters for recommendations.

Not an expert on calibers but something that packs a punch. Price range would be $300-500 dollars (however this price range is just an estimate in my mind. I am not up to date on the current gun prices.)

Just to reiterate - Years ago I was STUPID enough to purchase a Smith & Wesson "SW9M". Biggest (smallest) piece of junk I have ever purchased. Seriously - S&W was (pretty much) forced to abandon them about a year after production began.

Other than price - there was absolutely NOTHING redeeming about them. NOTHING. They were a bitch to take down for cleaning, no sights, no safety (which isn't a big deal), but an extremely light trigger pull - so if you were carrying with one in the chamber, there was a possibility that the user would shoot himself trying to present the gun.

Magazines were a journey to find and they were nearly impossible to count on. I still have mine, to this day, but I haven't fired it in well over 10 years. Afraid to.....

The moral of the story? If the deal seems too good to be true - it most certainly is.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

I am looking to obtain my first gun for a carry permit. Any recommendations for an affordable yet efficient pistol?

First things first: take a training course, probably either a Fundamentals of Handgun Handling, or CCW class. Ask them if they have guns to borrow for the class; many times they do at no extra charge.

The answer to your question is going to vary a bit depending on your experience.

For instance, if this is your first pistol of any kind, then a 1911/striker-fired pistol may not be your best option, as these pistols require a bit more "intelligent" technique to handle safely.

Also, what do you mean by "affordable"? To me that means under $1,000, to another it might mean under $5,000, but it might mean something else entirely to you.

Also when thinking about budget, have you considered the cost of a dedicated gun belt, an appropriate holster (IWB/OWB?), possibly a mag pouch, and relevant training?

However, almost no one thinks about these things when buying their first pistol; they just buy what their buddy told them to buy, or the "expert" behind the counter, or whoever.

My best advice to you is to buy from one of the reputable manufacturers, such as (in no particular order) S&W, Glock, Colt, Ruger, SIG, Beretta, H&K, et al. You will notice that most of these companies are based in the U.S. or have manufacturing in the U.S. I have through over 33 years of trial-and-error established that dealing with warranty/repair issues with handguns made in foreign countries is completely and utterly not worth my time and money. YMMV.

My second piece of advice is to buy the largest gun that you can comfortably conceal and that fits your hand properly. In other words, don't buy your gun based primarily on looks, or who made it, or who's carrying it in what movie/tv show.

My third piece of advice is to buy to most complete gun possible for your dollar. What I mean by that is the gun that has the most extras or bonus features for the same $500 or whatever. Things like night sights, extra mags, multiple sized backstraps for customized fit are nice. S&W's M&P line has backstraps that have integrated palm swell, as opposed to Glock's backstrap thickness only concept. Also, S&W's backstraps can be installed/uninstalled without any tools, while Glock requires something to push the retention pin out. Glocks come stock with plastic sights; if you want something more durable you have to pay extra (think it's about $50 for steel). For the record, my Glock 19 gen 4 plastic sights lasted almost exactly one year before needing replacing. I've heard on the internet (so some grains of salt may be necessary) that plastic Glock sights have been known to last more than a decade. Again, YMMV.

My fourth piece of advice is to actually shoot the guns before deciding which one to buy. Build a list of possible guns regardless of price, then narrow it down to guns between "too cheap to consider" and "way out of my budget." Go find said guns either for rent at a range, or between your friends and family, and shoot them.

Now, because you wanted a list of sorts, and probably won't take any of my aforementioned advice, here it is in order (the ones in bold I've shot/owned personally):

S&W M&P9Compact (or 40) 2.0
H&K VP9
SIG P229/M11-A1
Glock 19 any gen
SIG 320C
Springfield Armory XDM
S&W Shield9/40
SIG P239
CZ-P-10C
Springfield Armory 1911 EMP4
Beretta APX
Ruger American Compact
Ruger Security 9
Ruger LC9S Pro



This is not a complete list of every CCW handgun on the market, of course. This is just a list of the guns I've handled personally, or have people I know that have carried/owned these guns.

My current carry is the S&W M&P40C 2.0. I used to carry the S&W M&P9C 2.0 until two years ago, and before that I carried the SA 1911 EMP. My secondary carry for the last 8 years has been a S&W M&P Shield9 1.0.

Before all of those, I carried a Glock 19 gen 3 then 4. Sold the gen3 when I first got the M&P9C 2.0 (just a much better gun ergonomically, better stock trigger, and it eats my reloads better).

As you might imagine I have a LOT of holsters. Which is where this piece of advice comes in: don't buy ballistic nylon holsters; they're crap. Don't buy "top grain," or "split grain", or "genuine" leather holsters. Don't buy crap holsters, ever. Not only will they fall apart sooner, they can be dangerous to you and/or the people around you. Buy a decent quality holster made of Kydex, full grain (accept nothing less) leather, or horsehide.

A Kydex/leather hybrid is the most common choice I see lately, consider Crossbreed, or Galco, etc.

Side note: A decent gun belt goes for about $45-$100. A decent holster about $40-50. A mag pouch is about $25. A Handgun Basics class is about $30-65 depending.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

I am looking to obtain my first gun for a carry permit. Any recommendations for an affordable yet efficient pistol?

In my zeal to recommend the Glock I overlooked this. Definitely concur with Megatron - train first, carry later.

And there is an enormous difference between redneck out the woods gun handling and defensive pistol carry gun handling. I can remember thinking "I've been shooting since I was 7, what the **** do I need training for?" WRONG ANSWER AND WRONG ATTITUDE. Get training, and make sure you get it from somebody who knows what they're doing, not some douche who just completed an NRA instructor course and barely knows more than you do now.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Frazod

In my zeal to recommend the Glock I overlooked this. Definitely concur with Megatron - train first, carry later.

And there is an enormous difference between redneck out the woods gun handling and defensive pistol carry gun handling. I can remember thinking "I've been shooting since I was 7, what the **** do I need training for?" WRONG ANSWER AND WRONG ATTITUDE. Get training, and make sure you get it from somebody who knows what they're doing, not some douche who just completed an NRA instructor course and barely knows more than you do now.

I just knew we were going to agree on something sooner or later.