Other Sports ***The Official MMA Thread*** - Page 147

**KcMizzou** · 07-08-2010, 08:18 PM

Excited about an upcoming fight? Want to make predictions, or just give people a heads-up that there are some fights on? We can do it here.

(Also a good place to complain, dicuss, and agrue about the outcomes)

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Even though he still won that fight I think Shane Carwin was his "Buster Douglas". Not comparing the level of fighters Mike Tyson and Brock Lesnar are/were in anyway, but I think the same thing happened mentally to both guys once they realized they were not invincible.

Exactly what I'm getting at. Yup. Once Brock realized that he could get his ass beat, he lost that edge. When you realize your own mortality, like he did after that Carwin fight, it takes something out of you. But the truth is, like a lot of us said, Brock should have never been fighting in the first place.

What used to happen in UFC, for a while, is that wrestling was the ideal back ground. But now, guys take down defense has become so good, that it's starting to evolve. Premier strikers are the guys rising to the top, because all they have to do is stuff a shoot, and force a wrestler to stand. So if the wrestler doesn't have very good stand up, he's pretty much ****ed at that point.

The great thing about MMA is that it will continue to evolve. These 12 year old kids who are learning MMA now are going to transform the sport into something else in 10 years from now. Trust me, we're going to see guys doing jumping spinning kicks and knocking guys out with it and all sorts of shit in a few years.

BigCatDaddy · 12-31-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Exactly what I'm getting at. Yup. Once Brock realized that he could get his ass beat, he lost that edge. When you realize your own mortality, like he did after that Carwin fight, it takes something out of you. But the truth is, like a lot of us said, Brock should have never been fighting in the first place.

What used to happen in UFC, for a while, is that wrestling was the ideal back ground. But now, guys take down defense has become so good, that it's starting to evolve. Premier strikers are the guys rising to the top, because all they have to do is stuff a shoot, and force a wrestler to stand. So if the wrestler doesn't have very good stand up, he's pretty much ****ed at that point.

The great thing about MMA is that it will continue to evolve. These 12 year old kids who are learning MMA now are going to transform the sport into something else in 10 years from now. Trust me, we're going to see guys doing jumping spinning kicks and knocking guys out with it and all sorts of shit in a few years.

I wouldn't say he shouldn't have been fighting in the first place. He did have a nice victory over Frank Mir who isn't a chump by any means, but like you said he style isn't going to make him an top fighter in today's MMA, however he belonged there as much if not more so then an aged Cro Cop, Roy Nelson, and a few other guys put on PPV after PPV. He just shouldn't be a main event level fighter.

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I wouldn't say he shouldn't have been fighting in the first place. He did have a nice victory over Frank Mir who isn't a chump by any means, but like you said he style isn't going to make him an top fighter in today's MMA, however he belonged there as much if not more so then an aged Cro Cop, Roy Nelson, and a few other guys put on PPV after PPV. He just shouldn't be a main event level fighter.

Ok let me rephrase.

He shouldn't have been there out of the gate like he was. He should have been made to fight lots of guys like every other up and comer does, and earn his way up. On the way I think he would have been exposed. I mean Heath Herring is a tomato can, and he beat a 44 year old Couture.

So basically he had a split with Mir, and then a win over Carwin who somehow threw 68 unanswered punches (or some shit like that) without a stoppage and gassed himself out. Then got his ass totally beat by Cain and Overeem. So basically he got his ass kicked the last three times he fought and he's showed ZERO improvement from the first time he stepped into the Octagon.

Brock should have been forced to get 10-12 fights under his belt before being thrust into the spotlight. I understand it's a business also, but the guy never developed the skillset to fight at that level. He got by early on his size and wrestling. When he ran into guys who were as big as him, or weren't bothered by his wrestling, he was a zero fighter.

And there are lots of guys who should stop hanging around. Like CroCop. Just retire.

But at least at some point those guys were LEGIT MMA fighters. Brock never was.

BigCatDaddy · 12-31-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Ok let me rephrase.

He shouldn't have been there out of the gate like he was. He should have been made to fight lots of guys like every other up and comer does, and earn his way up. On the way I think he would have been exposed. I mean Heath Herring is a tomato can, and he beat a 44 year old Couture.

So basically he had a split with Mir, and then a win over Carwin who somehow threw 68 unanswered punches (or some shit like that) without a stoppage and gassed himself out. Then got his ass totally beat by Cain and Overeem. So basically he got his ass kicked the last three times he fought and he's showed ZERO improvement from the first time he stepped into the Octagon.

Brock should have been forced to get 10-12 fights under his belt before being thrust into the spotlight. I understand it's a business also, but the guy never developed the skillset to fight at that level. He got by early on his size and wrestling. When he ran into guys who were as big as him, or weren't bothered by his wrestling, he was a zero fighter.

And there are lots of guys who should stop hanging around. Like CroCop. Just retire.

But at least at some point those guys were LEGIT MMA fighters. Brock never was.

From a fighting stand point you are 100% correct, but like you said it's still a business and Brock sold PPV's. It's the same reason we keep seeing Tito getting trotted out there with his 1-7 record in his last 8 fights, but like Tito they should have just kept Brock on the undercard against guys that aren't great strikers instead of trying to fast track him to be the face of the UFC. I think they could have gotten more out of him that way and made more money.

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

From a fighting stand point you are 100% correct, but like you said it's still a business and Brock sold PPV's. It's the same reason we keep seeing Tito getting trotted out there with his 1-7 record in his last 8 fights, but like Tito they should have just kept Brock on the undercard against guys that aren't great strikers instead of trying to fast track him to be the face of the UFC. I think they could have gotten more out of him that way and made more money.

Yup. And then at least, he would have had time to develop his stand up, which is the worst I've ever seen at HW outside of maybe Monson.

Point is, Brock was brought in to sell PPV's, as you noted, but as a fighter he was very 3rd rate. The humping of his leg by CoMo was always very comical to me.

BigCatDaddy · 12-31-2011, 12:35 PM

I'm pretty sure CoMo is just trying to get under your skin.

ArrowheadHawk · 12-31-2011, 01:52 PM

CoMo has a knack of picking the loser.

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

I'm pretty sure CoMo is just trying to get under your skin.

Not initially. He really thought Lesnar was going to be some unstoppable force in the HW division because he beat up Mir, who is terrible at stopping takedowns.

**SAUTO** · 12-31-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Short Leash Hootie

I was conned into watching that PPV tonight...

holy shit, it was awful

how do people like that shit?

and the main event? My god. Awful.

3 ****ing fights were less than a minute...one of them the dude went down after taking one pussy ass hit...

How is that worth paying for? How are people entertained? I don't ****ing get it.

I hope hootie isn't calling hendricks shot a pussy ass hit. My good friend knows him and textedme right before the fight that he was a HARD puncher and was gonns ko fitch with a left and quickly
Posted via Mobile Device

Jerm · 12-31-2011, 02:55 PM

Ubereem vs. Dos Santos should be an absolute war...can't wait for that, striking galore.

I think Brock is nuts for even fighting after having a foot of his intestine removed...and esp. against such an elite striker as Reem. I guess he wanted one more big payday before heading back to WWE.

**SAUTO** · 12-31-2011, 03:01 PM

And i hope its obvious that fedor in his hey day bea ts brock easily...
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

And i hope its obvious that fedor in his hey day bea ts brock easily...
Posted via Mobile Device

uh, yeah. Fedor would have destroyed him inside of 20 seconds.

**SAUTO** · 12-31-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

uh, yeah. Fedor would have destroyed him inside of 20 seconds.

And any way he wanted...
Posted via Mobile Device

TheGuardian · 12-31-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

And any way he wanted...
Posted via Mobile Device

Pretty much.

kcxiv · 12-31-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Ok let me rephrase.

He shouldn't have been there out of the gate like he was. He should have been made to fight lots of guys like every other up and comer does, and earn his way up. On the way I think he would have been exposed. I mean Heath Herring is a tomato can, and he beat a 44 year old Couture.

So basically he had a split with Mir, and then a win over Carwin who somehow threw 68 unanswered punches (or some shit like that) without a stoppage and gassed himself out. Then got his ass totally beat by Cain and Overeem. So basically he got his ass kicked the last three times he fought and he's showed ZERO improvement from the first time he stepped into the Octagon.

Brock should have been forced to get 10-12 fights under his belt before being thrust into the spotlight. I understand it's a business also, but the guy never developed the skillset to fight at that level. He got by early on his size and wrestling. When he ran into guys who were as big as him, or weren't bothered by his wrestling, he was a zero fighter.

And there are lots of guys who should stop hanging around. Like CroCop. Just retire.

But at least at some point those guys were LEGIT MMA fighters. Brock never was.

I dont think he was ever going to be taken half ass seriously. Dana wanted him to go against the good fighters becuase Brock was talking shit. Its a money maker. THey thought he would get his ass beat bad and be done with MMA after a fight or 2. That didnt happen.

I think Dana thought it was a joke til he proved otherwise.

07-08-2010, 08:18 PM
KcMizzou Supporter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Parkville MO Casino cash: $10005170	*The Official MMA Thread* Excited about an upcoming fight? Want to make predictions, or just give people a heads-up that there are some fights on? We can do it here. (Also a good place to complain, dicuss, and agrue about the outcomes)
Posts: 54,695

12-31-2011, 12:35 PM	#2196
BigCatDaddy The Beast Inside Your Head Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $209122	I'm pretty sure CoMo is just trying to get under your skin.
Posts: 26,051

12-31-2011, 01:52 PM	#2197
ArrowheadHawk Rock Chalk! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Casino cash: $7844961	CoMo has a knack of picking the loser.
Posts: 15,676

12-31-2011, 02:55 PM	#2200
Jerm Mahomes > God Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $4908996	Ubereem vs. Dos Santos should be an absolute war...can't wait for that, striking galore. I think Brock is nuts for even fighting after having a foot of his intestine removed...and esp. against such an elite striker as Reem. I guess he wanted one more big payday before heading back to WWE.
Posts: 10,101

12-31-2011, 03:01 PM	#2201
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	And i hope its obvious that fedor in his hey day bea ts brock easily... Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 55,715